ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[blefuscu]

I've never ever heard of the term "cremains" before this thread. We call them "ashes" here in the uk

 

[Cardinal47]

Steleman you are probably correct.
But didn't the search continue for a while before the cremains were discovered? IMO even an elderly woman would've been stopped upon entry to an active search location.
IMO they wouldn't let anyone in or out without clearance in such a case.
So this person/s just toddled on down to a place that really no one else was camping at and saw all of the LE cars, SAR etc and dumped the ashes.
My parents are in their 90's and infirmed but even then my mom can still drive. She would not have been allowed entry to that active scene. No way.
jmho

I have to agree with you. No blue haired old lady dropped off pops at the reservior during this massive search. One road in and one road out. Nobody passed go to bury their dead.

Either the ashes were there before the search began and they discovered it during the search or somebody bad tried to throw off LE with hidden remains which I think is very unlikely.

I just can't get in my head somebody planned to murder a 2 year old and brought ashes to throw off the search.

That would be....'the outer limits' for what we watch and follow each day.

MOO

 

[carbuff]

I don't know how that could possibly work. The boy was seen at the store the day he went missing.

It would mean the boy was at the store, killed, body burned at such a high heat and for enough time for the body and bones to be ashes, the ashes gathered into a container, the fire evidence cleaned up so well that LE didn't notice it (that we know of), 911 called, and ashes dumped in the water.

Seems like a lot of work to be done in a short amount of time.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the cremains are the little boy's.

I don't think they've confirmed that the boy was Deorr. The timeline seems to indicate it wasn't.

I don't think I have a theory in mind. Just that the connection is weird. We have a missing boy, we have cremains in the reservoir at the same time, we have statements that nobody else was around -- and that's all more coincidence than I can really swallow in one bite.

 

[4senthia]

We have 2 choices in regards to the store visit:
The clerk was very way off on the timing of the man in the black truck w/the "filthy bawling" toddler that generally fits Deorr's description
or
The dad isn't being honest about it.
One or two. Nothing else will fit.
Now we have LE only maintaining a small presence @the campground while they are actively investigating the backgrounds of those "involved". What does that even mean?
The dad is still @the same campsite. Mom is a little ways away in case something happens. DNA was gotten from the parents.
What are we/they missing?
They arrived @the camp @approximately 1pm and called 911 @2:30. Is that correct?
That's a whole lot of activity for 3 adults w/one 2 year old who is now missing.
Too odd for my blood.
Then the "just learning" of the dumped cremains after bringing in diving crews/sonar.
Someone isn't telling the truth.
jmho

 

[flourish]

I believe from my research and what others have posted earlier in this thread that cadaver dogs would NOT alert to cremains.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

That's what I thought. So there wouldn't be much point to tossing cremains to try to cover remains.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Cardinal47]

Well here's a snipped quote from this link:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted
"Police divers have been methodically searching every square inch of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on.

“It’s pretty disappointing. Someone was depositing human cremains up there while we’re searching the area. It contaminates the reservoir and the entire area,” says Bowerman."

~~The key to me is the "just learned" part~~
jmoho

Well that answers a lot of my questions. If this is to be believed it was put there during the search. Strange.

Now I wonder how they ever got into this God forsaken place during a massive hunt for this little boy. Who let them in? Once again one road only going in and out. Surely during a search this massive somebody watched who came and went???? And what they were doing???

I wonder if this is a well known cremains drop off place?

I would like that clarified. Did the sheriff just find out somebody previous to the disappearance and search drop off remains OR did somebody drop off remains DURING the search?

I would also love to hear from any locals that might have been involved in the search just how sealed off the area was.

The place being so remote I would think not to many people even thought of going there.

 

[carbuff]

We have 2 choices in regards to the store visit:
The clerk was very way off on the timing of the man in the black truck w/the "filthy bawling" toddler that generally fits Deorr's description
or
The dad isn't being honest about it.
One or two. Nothing else will fit.
Now we have LE only maintaining a small presence @the campground while they are actively investigating the backgrounds of those "involved". What does that even mean?
The dad is still @the same campsite. Mom is a little ways away in case something happens. DNA was gotten from the parents.
What are we/they missing?
They arrived @the camp @approximately 1pm and called 911 @2:30. Is that correct?
That's a whole lot of activity for 3 adults w/one 2 year old who is now missing.
Too odd for my blood.
Then the "just learning" of the dumped cremains after bringing in diving crews/sonar.
Someone isn't telling the truth.
jmho

Third option: it wasn't Deorr, it was just somebody who resembled him. Which is what I'm inclined to think.

 

[Roselvr]

Does anyone see a transcript of the 911 calls?

It's actually illegal to scatter remains in most situations in which it happens. Even if its not directly in the water, it will eventually make its way there.

Its legal to scatter ashes in public places; there are companies that do it. Quick google search

* thread moves fast, hope someone didn't already address it

 

[4senthia]

How many people were in that store during the daylight hours of the 10th? I'd really love to know. Probably won't find out anytime soon tho.
As far as cadaver dogs being confused by human cremains:
"......of the reservoir for the little boy after cadaver dogs indicated there may be something there. However, Lemhi County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman tells HLN they just learned that someone had been dumping human cremains in the reservoir, and that very well could be the smell the dogs picked up on"

I know but that's what he said.
jmho

 

[teeandcee]

I've never ever heard of the term "cremains" before this thread. We call them "ashes" here in the uk

I've never heard them called cremains here in the US either aside from in this article. I thought it was a typo at first.

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't think they've confirmed that the boy was Deorr. The timeline seems to indicate it wasn't.

I don't think I have a theory in mind. Just that the connection is weird. We have a missing boy, we have cremains in the reservoir at the same time, we have statements that nobody else was around -- and that's all more coincidence than I can really swallow in one bite.

I would love to hear from the clerk at the store. This could all change but I read up thread what another poster wrote and it made sense. It had to be Deorr and his dad because in this lonely place how many men driving a black pick up truck with a little 2 year old blonde boy pass through in one day?

Statistics would probably say...only one. So I think the time was off.

 

[carbuff]

It's remote, but it's not so remote no one ever goes there.

It's not a park, as several people have said. It's National Forest Service land, which means public land. They couldn't entirely close it off because people might need to get up there for any of several legitimate reasons. I'm speaking of forest service land generally, not this particular spot.

As has been pointed out, there's a lot of mining in the area. People might need to get to their claims. It's possible that portions of it are leased for timber harvest or summer grazing of sheep and cattle. There could be cabins for the crews. There could even be summer cabins.

People go there for fishing and hunting. People go there for hiking and probably rock climbing. When we were there years ago, we were fishing and looking for agates and/or crystals.

And if you look closely at the map, you can see that while there's only one road that goes directly to the campground, there are other roads in the immediate area.

And while it might be a lightly used campground, they wouldn't have a campground there at all if there wasn't some use.

 

[4senthia]

Best quick overview of 911 call I could bring up on the fly:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558
What's the address of your emergency?"
"Um, I'm actually camping in leadore, just outside of Leadore."
"Uh huh."
"Um, my 2-year-old son, Um, we can't find him."

>snip<

"How long has he been missing?"
"About an hour."
"an hour?"
"Yeah."
>snip<

"Jessica?"
"Yeah."
"OK, what is he wearing?"
"Cowboy boots, a blue um pair of pajama pants, and a camo jacket."
>snip<

"How tall is he? Hello?"
"I, I'm not exactly sure, he's about three..."
"Are you there?"
"Yeah."
"OK."
"Is your husband calling too?"
"All down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all."
"OK, hang on."

Then dispatch gives the mother instructions.

"OK, we need you to stay within cell service"
"OK."
"We've got people on the way."
"Thank you."
MORE @LINK

 

[carbuff]

I would love to hear from the clerk at the store. This could all change but I read up thread what another poster wrote and it made sense. It had to be Deorr and his dad because in this lonely place how many men driving a black pick up truck with a little 2 year old blonde boy pass through in one day?

Statistics would probably say...only one. So I think the time was off.

During the summer tourist season, the highway through Leadore is busy. Not as busy as the roads in and out of the major national parks, but pretty busy. Many of them are going to be families with small children and many of them are going to be driving pickups.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Is there a link to a timeline? I want to know when/where the last independent sighting was before the possible sighting at the store.

e.g. Was the family seen on CCTV/by a person at a gas station on route to their destination?

 

[teeandcee]

Best quick overview of 911 call I could bring up on the fly:
http://www.localnews8.com/news/911-call-reporting-missing-toddler-released/34192558
What's the address of your emergency?"
"Um, I'm actually camping in leadore, just outside of Leadore."
"Uh huh."
"Um, my 2-year-old son, Um, we can't find him."

>snip<

"How long has he been missing?"
"About an hour."
"an hour?"
"Yeah."
>snip<

"Jessica?"
"Yeah."
"OK, what is he wearing?"
"Cowboy boots, a blue um pair of pajama pants, and a camo jacket."
>snip<

"How tall is he? Hello?"
"I, I'm not exactly sure, he's about three..."
"Are you there?"
"Yeah."
"OK."
"Is your husband calling too?"
"All down where we were camping at and we can't find him at all."
"OK, hang on."

Then dispatch gives the mother instructions.

"OK, we need you to stay within cell service"
"OK."
"We've got people on the way."
"Thank you."
MORE @LINK

This is so tragic. Her life will never be the same.

 

[ClaireNC]

I believe from my research and what others have posted earlier in this thread that cadaver dogs would NOT alert to cremains.

Somebody with some knowledge of the subject posted in the first thread that cadaver dogs need to be specially trained to detect cremains. Not all cadaver dogs have this training. (I wish I could remember who posted that, it was a mod.)

 

[4senthia]

This is indeed so tragic.
She needs answers so badly
jmo

 

[Damarna]

Is it possible that by stating someone had scattered remains it meant sometime in the past? It maybe was a local "favorite " area to scatter them? Not necessarily exactly during the time of Deorr's disappearance?

 

[4senthia]

So we're left to wait and wonder.
I wonder how long they would have continued to actively search that reservoir if the "dogs" (whichever kind they were) hadn't hit on the cremains.
And wondering who exactly it is that is, as the sheriff said, "involved".
Is there something else that stopped that search other than finding out about the cremains?
Dang I wish I knew.
jmho