ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #21

[TheTruthWillOut]

I don't know about anyone else but just the fact that between them they have done 11 statements and 9 poly's (much more than the other two present) would tell me they suspect me even if LE where treating me with kid gloves and playing nice cop!

 

[persimmon]

I am quite a bit behind and this question may have already been asked, but other than the look on JM's face, what do you find suspicious about using that picture?

Within the context of that thread that included discussion of body language and general appearance before the public, JMs facial expression along with lack of eye contact, posture, seems to contradict VDKs look of urgency and worry (whether genuine or feigned).

Certainly the media had other pics to choose from and since their power to sway public opinion is so strong, their choice seems to indicate their position on the subject. Jmo and maybe way off from the poster's thinking but that is a hell of a weak image to use for portraying the parents of a missing child. Not saying it's fair because in many instances it's not but it's fact that images are powerful persuaders.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I am quite a bit behind and this question may have already been asked, but other than the look on JM's face, what do you find suspicious about using that picture?

Not suspicious (though hindsight may prove it to be) but telling that EIN/Nate Eaton used that single frame of video from months before has soon as they were officially named suspects.

It wasn't accidental IMO and Nate Eaton (whatever your opinion) has been the journalist in this case that has been the most active. He knows a lot more than I ever could being stuck in England.

 

[persimmon]

I don't know about anyone else but just the fact that between them they have done 11 statements and 9 poly's (much more than the other two present) would tell me they suspect me even if LE where treating me with kid gloves and playing nice cop!

Indeed!

 

[dek]

I also think that hiring Klein's company demonstrates that the parents were unaware that they were suspects. If they had hired Klein with the knowledge they were suspects, then recent privacy legislation would make most of his findings inadmissable whether or not they favored the parents. Klein would therefore be breaking the law by publically sharing any of the information obtained. Clearly, he is sharing it with the public and LE so he is not bound by the the stated or implied use of his findings in subsequent litigation. Undoubtedly, he is aware of those laws and that priviledge but they likely were not because if they were all they needed to do was mention LEs suspicions and the possibility that their independent findings could counter those of LEs. If they had engaged in such a conversation with Klein, then he would not be talking and releasing information. When PI reports and findings have been challenged in criminal and civil proceedings, the courts have repeatedly ruled based on whether the PI had prior knowledge of a clients intent to possibly use findings in their defense should they be charged with any crime.

Moot point, parent's did not hire Klein.

"To insure the record is clear we feel we must respond to Mr. Browning's comments.1) Deorr Kunz has never hired this firm nor has he paid us any money.
2) Mr. Deorr Kunz is not our client but a witness.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/ Scroll down to Jan. 27th. 9:20 am on his Kleins FB Page to see full comment by Klein.

 

[persimmon]

Moot point, parent's did not hire Klein.

"To insure the record is clear we feel we must respond to Mr. Browning's comments.1) Deorr Kunz has never hired this firm nor has he paid us any money.
2) Mr. Deorr Kunz is not our client but a witness.

https://www.facebook.com/KleinInvestigations/ Scroll down to Jan. 27th. 9:20 am on his Kleins FB Page to see full comment by Klein.

Why was the family holding a benefit to pay for his services? So if the family hired Klein on behalf of JM and VDK the same still holds true...I guess my point was that people hiring PIs should be careful because it can backfire if not handled properly. In this case, it seems it has.

 

[haven71]

I'm not bouncing off any post in particular, but there is some discussion about DK and/or JM actually committing the crime, direct knowledge of it, or suspicion of their spouse.

Anything is possible, that goes without saying (then shut up, haven 71 LOL). I see Jessica as emotionally detached. It's possible Deorr had reactive attachment disorder, where he didn't bond with a parent. I once heard, if you don't feel much of a bond with your child, they don't feel much of a bond with you.

That said, Deorr comes across as a "man's man." I don't doubt for a second that he wouldn't physically discipline his child.

I wonder if Deorr could've lost his temper BIG TIME, and Jessica witnessed it but didn't really care that much. Not enough to intervene. It's my belief that one of them actually killed Deorr, and one of them witnessed it. It's possible one spouse didn't witness it, however, as it stands they both know what happened to Deorr and where he is. So, whether his death was actually witnessed or the account relayed to the other spouse later, it is a fact that they both know where he is, and mum's the word.

This is so heartbreaking. It's sickening that those who are to love and protect him were actually involved in his demise, or at the very least a cover up.

Deorr was a little angel. I wish I could reach into those pictures and just scoop him up!

 

[dek]

Why was the family holding a benefit to pay for his services? So if the family hired Klein on behalf of JM and VDK the same still holds true...I guess my point was that people hiring PIs should be careful because it can backfire if not handled properly. In this case, it seems it has.

My understanding is KIC was hired on behalf of DeOrr Jay Kunz, not his parents. I believe that was stated by Klein in one of the Q&A's. I'll see if I can locate it.

 

[ConcernedCitizenID]

Here's what I just CANNOT get past, you guys. In the very first interview he and Jessica gave to Nate, DeOrr (Vernal) says:

"Uh, we searched for - after about twenty minutes in a dead panic, not knowing where he was in such a small area, and not knowing, never being there, I knew I was in trouble."

I can't ignore his choice of words. What in God's name did you do, Vernal, to KNOW that you were in trouble??? And what do you know about it, Jessica? For the love of all things holy, come clean!!!

:tantrum:

 

[LietKynes]

Marking my spot again.
Thanks also to everyone who is posting and keeping little DeOrr Jr's case up to date.

To anyone who may have harmed this precious boy--- People are watching you. Maybe not in the physical sense, but by keeping up to date on any developments. Many of us will not forget DeOrr Jr. ; even if you think this will all 'just fade away and be forgotten'. There are people out there who care about these missing children-- even spending their own time and $$, helping to look for the missing, and are assisting in other ways.

As far as having a 'cloudy' memory of that evening and next morning-- many years ago I'd received some bad news through a letter from a friend (had been in her wedding); I won't go into detail but it was disturbing. That day's events aren't all clear, but I still remember what I was doing and how the rest of that dismal day went.
A friend from work and I had stopped for lunch at a cafe-style restaurant and I still remember what food we'd ordered.

It's very hard for me to believe these parents couldn't remember what happened that Thurs. or Fri. ,with extreme clarity.
Apologize if ranting too much ; but had to post this.
Whether DeOrr Jr. is on that mountain or somewhere else-- he deserves justice. It's hard to believe someone has him ; my opinion is that he's earned his angel wings.

:moo:

 

[kammiemc]

My understanding is KIC was hired on behalf of DeOrr Jay Kunz, not his parents. I believe that was stated by Klein in one of the Q&A's. I'll see if I can locate it.

He did say that, very vehemently. And I very much believe him! But I think (IMO) the extended family member who signed the contract likely did so not only for help finding little DeOrr but also with with the hope that Klein would put to rest any suspicion that the parents were covering for something.

I think KIC can determine how to talk about who their ultimate client is that they are working for. But an extended family member did sign the contract and is responsible for paying the invoice.


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[haven71]

I find it interesting that both Bowerman and Klein sort of blew off the theory that drugs were somehow involved. Are they that certain? Have they talked to enough people who knew them well and determined they are not drug users? Maybe what seems to be a dismissal is something they are actually underplaying it, keeping it close to the vest as they say.

Another thing, if they were under the influence on Friday, wouldn't it make sense that they couldn't agree on the small things, like who cooked breakfast, etc? Maybe their brains were really clouded, and that's why their stories continue to change.

 

[kammiemc]

I also think that hiring Klein's company demonstrates that the parents were unaware that they were suspects. If they had hired Klein with the knowledge they were suspects, then recent privacy legislation would make most of his findings inadmissable whether or not they favored the parents. Klein would therefore be breaking the law by publically sharing any of the information obtained. Clearly, he is sharing it with the public and LE so he is not bound by the the stated or implied use of his findings in subsequent litigation. Undoubtedly, he is aware of those laws and that priviledge but they likely were not because if they were all they needed to do was mention LEs suspicions and the possibility that their independent findings could counter those of LEs. If they had engaged in such a conversation with Klein, then he would not be talking and releasing information. When PI reports and findings have been challenged in criminal and civil proceedings, the courts have repeatedly ruled based on whether the PI had prior knowledge of a clients intent to possibly use findings in their defense should they be charged with any crime.

IMO, call it gut instinct, I believe it's possible that the parents caved into great public pressure to hire this crack PI at the public's expense. Or else they would risk looking like they didn't want the truth found out by yet another investigator. Just because they didn't successfully stop an extended family member from signing the contract doesn't in any way mean that they wanted the PI. One piece of important of info in point: they didn't sign.


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[kammiemc]

If we take VDKs fathers word as fact, and I do, then we know they did not know they were suspects until SB announced that fact to the public. There is a chance he informed the couple and they kept that to themselves but these seem like people who are extremely close to immediate family so I tend to doubt that.

Possibly, but you are trusting that LE or the parents confided in GGP about LE's feelings that the parents are suspects and that gpa believed it as fact and would relay that as fact. The last thing I would do is take what he thinks he knows or believes in his heart as fact. We know from the People Mag article that he has completely rejected what LE/FBI/KLEIN say. I wouldn't go by him for facts. IMO.


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[Mickshawn]

Why was the family holding a benefit to pay for his services? So if the family hired Klein on behalf of JM and VDK the same still holds true...I guess my point was that people hiring PIs should be careful because it can backfire if not handled properly. In this case, it seems it has.

I think the main purpose of the P.I. is to find little DeOrr.

 

[TeaTime]

GP Kunz told us that the baby was his nap buddy which is why (I think) we all assume that they lived and live together. Whether LE in IF searched the Kunz home before the parents returned is not certain. Actually, it has never been brought up but it is a great point to bring up. Thanks.

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

 

[Mickshawn]

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

I'm sorry, but right now, I'm not feeling any love and forgiveness for the parents.....If they hurt their sweet little boy and caused his disappearance, my heart just does not go out to them. If they concocted a story which involved so many searchers and people raising money and resources and equipment, etc. etc.....my heart does not go out to them....Where my heart goes is to this sweet innocent little child.

 

[Paulas88]

GP Kunz told us that the baby was his nap buddy which is why (I think) we all assume that they lived and live together. Whether LE in IF searched the Kunz home before the parents returned is not certain. Actually, it has never been brought up but it is a great point to bring up. Thanks.

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

Nope! But, I will pray that they give up the charade and pretense, and the fake sympathy garnering, and let DeOrr be properly buried.

 

[Onebest]

GP Kunz told us that the baby was his nap buddy which is why (I think) we all assume that they lived and live together. Whether LE in IF searched the Kunz home before the parents returned is not certain. Actually, it has never been brought up but it is a great point to bring up. Thanks.

Unless the body is found and pre-death bone injuries such as skull fractures, knife cuts or gunshot wounds are identified, the COD will never be determined with any accuracy - it is too late for that. That ship has sailed. Even if the killer(s) tell(s) us how the baby died, we still will not know for 100% certainty - see e.g. Reuben Ebron's 'baby drowned in the bath tub story'. But, let us not dwell on the things we may never know.

Let us know this: we do not seek justice for a person, we seek justice as a means to maintain our notions of a civilized society. Nothing we do can ever undo what has been done and the dead do not need justice; society does. DeOrr has no hatred for his killers or any need for retribution. He doesn't need a hole in the ground with a headstone above to rest in peace, he is in eternal peace, joyous and his soul is in ecstasy. Besides, what better resting place than being one with nature in God's great wilderness can anyone ask for?

We may not obtain the justice we seek but we know where DeOrr's soul resides. This will sustain us all.

For now, let's all send our love and forgiveness out to the parents rather than our hate. Pray for them.

Respectfully disagree. Baby Deoor deserves justice and its justice for him I personally look for. Its not a "notion" to me, its a living breathing gift of life that is missing from us and I consider it a responsibility and moral obligation to find out where he is. We do NOT know where his soul resides, we don't even know he is dead, so until we do and we know for sure he is at peace, I for one will keep seeking justice and resolution.

I can very easily pray for Deoors parents. I pray that they find it in their hearts to give LE, FBI and Investigators the consistent, honest answers they are seeking to find justice for their precious childs life. Until that is being done I will wait and I pray that if the parents wont or cannot help baby Deoor be found that it will be done without them. JMO, all of this.

 

[LietKynes]

@ Rayemonde and Mickshawn : Agree totally with your posts.

I doubt anyone on these threads are actively hating some of these perps or suspects. We don't even know them. What we are looking for is justice if foul play was done.
I for one don't feel any love or forgiveness for anyone who may have harmed their own flesh and blood ; fgs !
If a crime was committed, those people need to answer for their actions .
My .02