ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #22

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Something I haven't seen discussed recently, unless I missed it, is SB's comment about VDK and JM "getting out on the driver's side" when stopping to get fuel. It's in TxJan1971's transcript of SB's October interview with Tricia.

Why do you think he mentions that? Why point out that they got out on the driver's side? To imply there was a car seat on the passenger's side? I don't think it's unusual for both the driver and a passenger to get out on the same side...but it's just one of those things that has stood out to me. And if they both got out, that means they left little Deorr in the vehicle? I believe this is the same incident where someone thought they might have seen "a child in the back seat." Does it bother anyone else that SB mentions they got out on the same side? If someone saw a child in the "back seat?" Does that mean the jump seat? Did the passenger door not work correctly and that's why they both got out of the same side? Just late night obsession I guess. LOL

03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?286501-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-yr-old-Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

Interesting, I have to admit I didn't catch that little detail before. And "someone seen them getting out"... ? I wonder who that might be that could have identified them and reported this to LE. So maybe there really was video.
 
Interesting, I have to admit I didn't catch that little detail before. And "someone seen them getting out"... ? I wonder who that might be that could have identified them and reported this to LE. So maybe there really was video.

I was just saying something similiar. Hmmm...or did they tell SB that piece of information. That is a very weird piece of minutia to insert.
 
Regarding the ice chest, I seem to recall SB saying that the parents had all of the appropriate camping trip items when they searched. Perhaps they had more than one, but I think if they didn't have one, that would be a red flag. Does anyone remember when SB said this? I think it may have been on the radio show...
 
Regarding the ice chest, I seem to recall SB saying that the parents had all of the appropriate camping trip items when they searched. Perhaps they had more than one, but I think if they didn't have one, that would be a red flag. Does anyone remember when SB said this? I think it may have been on the radio show...

I think it was the radio. He mentioned they tried to get more food as well. But, I agree he seemed to feel the trip was legitimate including supplies.
 
TxJan1971, how far upthread is your post that mentions them exiting vehicle on the same side?
 
TxJan1971, how far upthread is your post that mentions them exiting vehicle on the same side?

See ReadySet post #239.

The actual transcript is in the media timeline maybe on page 2 or 3.

I have to re-listen because I have a link (see below) where to me it "infers" that the fuel up was in Leadore (based on the chronological statements in the article below).

I'll post it below here while I go re-listen to the statement about them both getting out the driver's side which I assumed was NOT in Leadore but on the way from Idaho Falls and they stopped for diesel.

Did they also fuel up in Leadore on Friday? In other words, did they stop on the way to the campsite to get diesel but then also "fuel up" (gas?) in Leadore Friday morning based on the article below? From the way it's outlined in the article, starting with Thursday night, etc. it appears they could be talking about fueling up in Leadore. Or it could be a misprint.

Let me see if I can find any other statements about the child in the back seat.

~~
From the article:

Thursday evening just right around dark time they arrived, set up camp and then Friday morning, somewhere around 10:30 or 11 is when they went to Leadore," Bowerman said.

A receipt and cashier proves the parents trip to the only convenience store in town, but was the toddler with his mother and father?

"Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive," Bowerman said.

The family went back to camp and a few hours later the mother called 911 saying her son was missing.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/3-months-still-no-sign-of-missing-toddler/35762562
 
TxJan1971, how far upthread is your post that mentions them exiting vehicle on the same side?

I'm not TxJan, but it's on page two of the media thread, Post #24.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?

03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.
 
Post #14
August 18, 2015

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.

Nate Eaton:
“Diesel fuel… Any surveillance video of that gas station?”

Deputy Penner:
“No

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot


THEN

Post #24
October 15, 2015

TG: Lem’-hi. Just exactly like how it’s spelled. I just made that way too difficult. Sorry about that, but anyway, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you very, very much. We have one question, one area that we want to clear up, and that is, and I’m hoping you can help us with that tonight, that is when Deorr was seen at the store, with his parents, do you know for certain if he was ever actually seen at the store? That just seems real ambiguous uh to any

SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you


02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!

(MY QUESTION: Since SB was specifically asked, "Did the store clerk remember seeing the baby," and he answers about the receipt, etc., and then goes on to say someone thought they saw the baby in the back seat but not sure...does this mean they fueled up in Leadore also, or did SB jump back to talking about the diesel stop the night before, or did both "fuel ups" occur" or am I too tired and should go to bed now?)

03:18
TG: Well, and the thing is, a busy day like that camping, nobody’s going to think, I better remember who’s in the store. It just doesn’t work like that.

03:26
SB: Yeah, exactly. It’s not uncommon. It’s a small community, and uh the salesclerk said she was really busy, and she was having difficulty remembering them being in the store, but when she saw them, she said, Oh, I remember talking to you.

TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?

03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2
 
Post #14
August 18, 2015

Nate Eaton:
“Bowerman is opening up about the case that has so many unanswered questions. He says late on Thursday, July 9th, not Friday, Deorr, his parents, great-grandfather and a friend of grandpa named Isaac Renwand arrive at Timber Creek. The next morning Bowerman tells me Deorr goes with his parents to a store in Leadore, about 20 minutes from the camp site.”

“Was there any surveillance captured of this boy, surveillance video?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
1:28
“I don’t believe they have surveillance, but we have, uh…a receipt that we documented that they purchased certain items. They were on the receipt. The time was stamped on the receipt, and so, we believe, ya’ know, that’s where they went.”

Nate Eaton:
“Did they stop any other places on their way up to Leadore?”

Sheriff Bowerman:
”appears” to shake his head no but says nothing.

Deputy Penner:
“Yeah. They stopped to get diesel.

Nate Eaton:
“Diesel fuel… Any surveillance video of that gas station?”

Deputy Penner:
“No.”

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Media-Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot


THEN

Post #24
October 15, 2015

TG: Lem’-hi. Just exactly like how it’s spelled. I just made that way too difficult. Sorry about that, but anyway, Sheriff Bowerman, thank you very, very much. We have one question, one area that we want to clear up, and that is, and I’m hoping you can help us with that tonight, that is when Deorr was seen at the store, with his parents, do you know for certain if he was ever actually seen at the store? That just seems real ambiguous uh to any

SB: Well, initially um the store salesperson didn’t remember uh the encounter. When the father uh… I call him Vernal instead of Deorr, it’s Vernal Deorr Kunz…when Vernal and his wife came back to the store several days later then the salesperson said, “Oh, yeah, I remember you!”


02:45
SB: Now I’m not sure…I don’t recall her saying specifically that she remembered the child. She remembered them talking about their child, and they bought some candy and some other items, and we have a dated and time-stamped receipt, so we know they were in the store. And someone while they were fueling up said they thought they saw a child in the back seat, but that hasn’t been ever positively stated that there was a child there, but ya’ know at this point, I’m believing the family!

(MY QUESTION: Since SB was specifically asked, "Did the store clerk remember seeing the baby," and he answers about the receipt, etc., and then goes on to say someone thought they saw the baby in the back seat but not sure...does this mean they fueled up in Leadore also, or did SB jump back to talking about the diesel stop the night before, or did both "fuel ups" occur" or am I too tired and should go to bed now?)

03:18
TG: Well, and the thing is, a busy day like that camping, nobody’s going to think, I better remember who’s in the store. It just doesn’t work like that.

03:26
SB: Yeah, exactly. It’s not uncommon. It’s a small community, and uh the salesclerk said she was really busy, and she was having difficulty remembering them being in the store, but when she saw them, she said, Oh, I remember talking to you.

TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?

03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

The only thing I can make out of exiting the driver's side is that he was somehow implying a child seat was in the passenger seat. Within the context of the interview that seems to make sense. And the witness perhaps just stated it as they saw it or maybe a child was mentioned?
 
<snip>
Whoever it was, I remember this person was pretty angry we were expected to be so gullible as to believe that DK Sr. saw some little minnow(s) and then hiked on up back to the campsite from the creek to show little Deorr, grabbed little Deorr and hikes back on down and over the bank, back to where he last saw the little minnow(s), expecting us to believe that the little minnow(s) would all still be there patiently waiting for DK Sr. to return, right where he had last seen them! The visual, together with the descriptive rant, was too much for me and I busted out laughing at the image painted. It allowed me to have something to smile about, if only for a brief moment, appropriate or not. So there...I'm guilty for having a moment.

And you just made me think about what FromGermany said about the trip to the store, how the conversation must have been a little odd for the clerk to remember that they were talking about their child!
 
No video of them getting diesel in IF but, someone reported seeing the truck and someone reported seeing them get out on the driver's side but no child was seen.

No video from Leadore or anywhere else.

Store clerk remembers parents once she sees them again but does not recall seeing the 2 1/2 year old towheaded toddler even after his missing posters are plastered everywhere. Remembers parents talking about him.

One fueling up. Not two.

If we find out that VDK did indeed have 2 trucks, I may change my mind but so far that is pure speculation.
 
Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and&#8230;and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver&#8217;s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don&#8217;t have any video.


Wow, good catch about this! So there's no video, but someone remembers them getting out of the driver's side? And didn't someone also say they thought they saw a kid in the back seat, but they weren't sure?
 
is SB's comment about VDK and JM "getting out on the driver's side" when stopping to get fuel.

This could mean one of them was sitting in the backseat with DeOrr. That's if they said "driver's side" as opposed to "driver's door".
 
is SB's comment about VDK and JM "getting out on the driver's side" when stopping to get fuel.

This could mean one of them was sitting in the backseat with DeOrr. That's if they said "driver's side" as opposed to "driver's door".

The quote says "driver's side"
 
I try to put myself in the witnesses shoes, and the fact that they failed to see a toddler or lots of tiny details seems normal to me. Granted I live in an extremely populated area, but something has to be very unique for me to recall who I saw at the gas station etc. I do think if I were working as a cashier somewhere, especially in a tiny town I would recall customers because interaction provides a basis for storing something in short term memory at least. I'm just not sure these witness sightings we know of provide much evidence. If we learned of a sighting that placed JM and VDK off the road between the campsite and Leadore or something concrete like that, I would place more stock in its signifigance. But what I know at this point seems like very casual observations or sightings that may or may not be accurate. I wish SB would have addressed the filthy child black truck sighting because that is still something shrouded in mystery for me. It would seem logical that when VDK confronted the store clerk about the Friday visit to jog her memory, he would have also asked if he was the man she recalled seeing with the crying, filthy child.

There are so many odd loose ends to this story that it's difficult to ascertain what is fact and rumor. I can see how SB would be frustrated because little pieces do change from article to article etc. Maybe we can blame it on poor journalism, but a concerned parent would take steps to correct innaccuracies and inconsistencies because each piece is crucial to solving this mystery.

This case seems founded on deception and half truths which makes me wonder about those close to the parents. Honestly, if I were family and saw all of these varying stories and realized the parents weren't setting the record straight, I would sit them down and interrogate them and address each version until they clarified or corrected any misinformation. Subsequently, I would speak on their behalf so that the public had a solid narrative. It's ridiculous that such simple facts become convoluted. Their initial interview omits IRs presence and mistates the day they arrived. Wth? Who cannot get those facts straight?

Sorry, I'm rambling but I have a strong dislike for that type of shifty talk. It makes me crazy and is inexcusable considering the circumstances.

I need to locate the quote, but SB stated something to the effect that LE was on to their lies and felt certain they knew were DeOrr was. He also added that they could live with an accident but it was time for somebody to step up and do the right thing. I recall early in Scott Peterson's investigation, there was discussion of involuntary manslaughter and a 12 year sentence if he would simply be honest and say...we had a fight and .....instead, he married his lies and sits on death row. Continued deception doesn't end well in a situation like this. When you find yourself in hole, stop digging.
 
I'm not TxJan, but it's on page two of the media thread, Post #24.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Timelines-and-Maps-**NO-DISCUSSION-quot/page2

TG: to the parents, right. So, again, that’s just something that’s ambiguous but not necessarily suspicious at all just because it was a busy time, and I’m assuming there is no video?

03:48
SB: Absolutely no video from the time they left Idaho Falls where they fueled up and…and you know their vehicle was seen and someone seen them getting out of the driver’s side to fuel up, but uh no child was ever seen so we don’t have any video.

Apart from the fact that it's a little strange to both get out on the driver's side, isn't it also a little odd that they *both got out to fuel up? When we drive somewhere, my husband or I get out to fuel up, not both of us. (Although maybe this is just us. Still, I don't think I ever recall seeing two people standing there fueling up any time I've gassed up.)

Or maybe they both got out and one went in to pay?
 
Apart from the fact that it's a little strange to both get out on the driver's side, isn't it also a little odd that they *both got out to fuel up? When we drive somewhere, my husband or I get out to fuel up, not both of us. (Although maybe this is just us. Still, I don't think I ever recall seeing two people standing there fueling up any time I've gassed up.)

Or maybe they both got out and one went in to pay?

Yes, it is odd but it fits my impression of them. At this point I start completely speculating so I'll stop. Suffice it to say, I find them immature and more like high schoolers than adults.
 
Apart from the fact that it's a little strange to both get out on the driver's side, isn't it also a little odd that they *both got out to fuel up? When we drive somewhere, my husband or I get out to fuel up, not both of us. (Although maybe this is just us. Still, I don't think I ever recall seeing two people standing there fueling up any time I've gassed up.)

Or maybe they both got out and one went in to pay?

Very unusual . . unless one got out to go in and get something if there's a convenience store at the gas station.
 
See ReadySet post #239.

~~
From the article:

"Somebody said they thought they saw a child in the vehicle while they fueled up, but they're not positive," Bowerman said.

The family went back to camp and a few hours later the mother called 911 saying her son was missing.
http://www.localnews8.com/news/3-months-still-no-sign-of-missing-toddler/35762562

Probably covered back in one of the previous 20+ threads, but couldn't this just mean the person who thought they may have seen a child in the vehicle was the one fueling up?
 
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