ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #4

[desert-blue]

Was it confirmed that it was him at the store?

No, not that I am aware of. It just seems a little too coincidental and one explanation to me that makes sense is that the clerk was correct with her time (6 pm, I believe) but off by one day.

 

[Jamaica Me Crazy]

I live in Wisconsin. Believe it or not we have a lion loose in the city.(Milwaukee) He has been evading capture for quite a while now. It's amazing how stealthy he is! As for kids following a path or not, I think it really depends on the child. I can say for SURE my two girls would stick to a path but my son.....heck no! He would be off exploring in a heart beat. Kids are so quick and they do things that we think they would NEVER do. I have heard parents of missing little ones say that their child would NEVER go near water because they are afraid of it. Only to end up being found in the water. I just have a gut feeling our little guy is in that water somewhere. Search and rescue divers are only human and they can miss something several times over. I think we, at WS, has seen that to be the case many times. It breaks my heart. I just can't see abduction as being the reason he is gone. I would never take if off the table, but it just doesn't seem likely to me. I just hope this poor little man is found, alive or deceased, his family needs him back. My heart goes out to them.

I can't find the source at this time, but I read that the body would have surfaced by now if he was in the water. Correct?

 

[teeandcee]

I can't find the source at this time, but I read that the body would have surfaced by now if he was in the water. Correct?

It depends on the temp of the water. I think it was determined it could take as long as 3 weeks based on water temps in that area.

 

[*JMO*]

One question I have is regarding the polygraph. LE has stated that the parents were voluntarily tested. I have also read that "some" family members offered but who they were was not specified. If anyone beside the parents were tested I am not aware of it.

Has anyone read that all 4 parties at the campsite had polygraphs or were only the parents tested?

 

[pepelepolecat]

I have a question for any parents who might be able to answer based on experience with their own toddlers. Starting at the campsite, I would assume that the parents went exploring by way of a footpath that led directly to the creek where the father saw the minnows he wanted to show DeOrr. Depending on the destination, say creek or toilets...there are only so many footpaths leading away from the camp. Would a toddler know to follow a footpath or would they just wander through vegetation etc if they went off in search of parents?

I'd say it depends on how thick the vegetation is/was. We've been camping with ours since they were babies (cabins and campers, never tent camping), and it can be hard for them to move through brush that is waist-height or taller. In my experience with them, I'd be inclined to say kids that small would be more inclined to stick to a foot path or a deer path or some other kind of break in the vegetation.

 

[StormyNights]

I can't find the source at this time, but I read that the body would have surfaced by now if he was in the water. Correct?

You are probably correct. I think it just seems the most likely scenario here. I would also think with him being so little, it's possible he is tangled up or in something in the water. Under a or even in and old log, something along those lines. That is the only thing I can think of as to why he wouldn't have surfaced by now?

 

[persimmon]

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/asphyxia/drowning
In an earlier thread somebody did indicate a three week window period. I found a very thorough article on the subject of drowning which I provided. Scroll down to the final paragraph and it indicates in summer a child's body would surface within three days.

 

[ClaireNC]

"EastIdahoNews.com spoke with Reinwand briefly Monday morning on his doorstep. He confirmed Deorr was with him and the great-grandfather before he went missing, but Reinwand declined to answer further questions.
“He just disappeared,” Reinwand said."

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/sheriff-family-friend-not-a-suspect-in-deorr-kunz-case/

This quote leads me to believe that Reinwand was present at the campsite when the baby disappeared.

Good point and I can see how you can say that from reading the article. Have you listened to the video? It has a very different vibe compared to the way the article is written. The "confirmation" that he was with DeOrr was just simply an "Ummm Hmmm" and a nod in response to the reporter stating "So he was just with you and the grandfather when he wandered away..." It was not a very committed confirmation.

 

[StormyNights]

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/E-Book/asphyxia/drowning
In an earlier thread somebody did indicate a three week window period. I found a very thorough article on the subject of drowning which I provided. Scroll down to the final paragraph and it indicates in summer a child's body would surface within three days.

Thank you for posting this. It's very informative. But, can he rise if he stuck under something? Would his body gases (sorry) build up enough to push the log up with him to the surface?

 

[teeandcee]

Has anyone read that all 4 parties at the campsite had polygraphs or were only the parents tested?

Would GGP get a polygraph? I don't think they'd bother if a person is as mentally incapacitated as they've indicated GGP is.

 

[Cardinal47]

Just trying to get something straight. The mother called and said he has been missing about an hour. Then it took LE about 40 minutes to reach the campsite. Who was there when they arrived?

I am thinking mom and dad were there but were GGP and the caregiver still there waiting? TIA

 

[starfire]

Good point and I can see how you can say that from reading the article. Have you listened to the video? It has a very different vibe compared to the way the article is written. The "confirmation" that he was with DeOrr was just simply an "Ummm Hmmm" and a nod in response to the reporter stating "So he was just with you and the grandfather when he wandered away..." It was not a very committed confirmation.

He did not convince me he really had seen Deorr that day or was with him when, "as far as he knew" he "disappeared".

 

[teeandcee]

You are probably correct. I think it just seems the most likely scenario here. I would also think with him being so little, it's possible he is tangled up or in something in the water. Under a or even in and old log, something along those lines. That is the only thing I can think of as to why he wouldn't have surfaced by now?

If you're referring to the reservoir LE stated they did shoulder-to-shoulder searches on it with probes. If you're referring to the stream LE said they had people in the water turning over rocks, pushing aside debris, etc. My only guess is he was washed downstream quickly, but the video of the stream makes that look unlikely. There were logs across it and big rocks, at least in the area shown on the reporter's video.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'd say it depends on how thick the vegetation is/was. We've been camping with ours since they were babies (cabins and campers, never tent camping), and it can be hard for them to move through brush that is waist-height or taller. In my experience with them, I'd be inclined to say kids that small would be more inclined to stick to a foot path or a deer path or some other kind of break in the vegetation.

Same here. I can imagine a little toddler trying to make it through the underbrush, but not being able to because everything is too tall and scratchy for him. And I can imagine a little one becoming very frustrated because it's too hard to walk and flopping down.

I have a feeling that happened to little DeOrr. Later, when nobody came to rescue him, he tried walking again and went in the opposite direction of where people were looking for him. A little guy stumbling around, lost, and in camo - it would be very hard to see him unless you already knew where to look. My hunch is he succumbed to the elements.

My next guess is the water.

I don't rule anything out yet, but I'm doubtful of a lion, wolf, or human attack.

Please let him be found soon.

 

[pepelepolecat]

One question I have is regarding the polygraph. LE has stated that the parents were voluntarily tested. I have also read that "some" family members offered but who they were was not specified. If anyone beside the parents were tested I am not aware of it.

Has anyone read that all 4 parties at the campsite had polygraphs or were only the parents tested?

Would a polygraph even be accurate if the ggp has dementia (or something similiar)? (I *don't* think he had anything to do with it.) I'd just be really concerned that the test would show deception even when he wasn't being deceptive. I can't even imagine how frightening and disorienting this must all be for him right now.

 

[ClaireNC]

No, not that I am aware of. It just seems a little too coincidental and one explanation to me that makes sense is that the clerk was correct with her time (6 pm, I believe) but off by one day.

One problem with that theory is that according to this article the family drove to the campsite the morning that DeOrr disappeared. http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/ "Friday July 10, Deorr Kunz Jr, his father, mother, great-grandfather, and a family friend travel 120 miles from Idaho Falls to Timber Creek Campground in Leadore." So, why would DeOrr and his father be at the store the night before? The family lives in Idaho Falls, which is about 120 miles from where the store is in Leadore.

I really wish the store clerk would agree to an interview.

 

[*JMO*]

Good point and I can see how you can say that from reading the article. Have you listened to the video? It has a very different vibe compared to the way the article is written. The "confirmation" that he was with DeOrr was just simply an "Ummm Hmmm" and a nod in response to the reporter stating "So he was just with you and the grandfather when he wandered away..." It was not a very committed confirmation.

Yes, I agree with that analysis. But you sure as heck would think he would say "But I wasn't there..blah-blah"..I was fishing or asleep or whatever, especially since he was a reluctant interview anyway.



But it isn't an interview I can put a whole lot of stock into. He is obviously not very coherent for whatever reason, half asleep is my guess. He also doesn't appear to be fully dressed and had a camera in his face so it isn't like an interview where he was sitting down with Diane Sawyer and fully prepped for questions.

But it does seem like he would completely exclude himself, just for self preservation if for no other reason, if he were not present.

 

[*JMO*]

Would GGP get a polygraph? I don't think they'd bother if a person is as mentally incapacitated as they've indicated GGP is.

Which would make it all the more strange to leave him solely responsible for a toddler.

 

[teeandcee]

Which would make it all the more strange to leave him solely responsible for a toddler.

Right, I agree. This is definitely a confusing situation what with all the odd info we're getting.

 

[Cardinal47]

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=159

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/hunt/?getPage=162

It looks like 29, 30 and 37 are the units in Leodore.

No Mountain Lions to report. It also appears the counties surrounding them have no Mountain Lion census.

MOO