ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

[KonaHonu]

You have articulated my take on the trial to date. But we’re not done yet. Typically, prosecutors end their arguments with a bang, not a whimper (apologies to T. S. Eliot), so there may be something damning coming up. I certainly hope so.

I hope so too, that we get something damning. I'm certainly seeing plenty of dots. The prosecution is really not connecting them for me.

I've not followed this case too closely but the last couple of weeks I've been trying to come back up to speed. One thing that sort of shocked me was the alibi affidavit or whatever it is called. I think might go back to MM days. But is is Lori stating she was in her apartment at the times Tylee and JJ were killed in Alex's apartment and in Hawaii when Tammy was killed. That seems to mean she knows when they were killed and where!

And I also don't think the defense is doing a great job either. Why weren't the FBI agents asked where Lori's phone was on certain key days and times? Maybe that is coming but I would think the defense would want to start sowing doubt in jurors heads as early as possible.

 

[indicolite22]

Will we get to learn why they think Tammy was asphyxiated?

Also, I wonder if MBP and AB will be called to testify, considering their cult membership and interactions with Lori (going to Hawaii and Missouri together after the children were gone, not to mention MBP living next door)? She might have told them the truth about the children and Tammy, although she lied to everyone else.

How about Chad's neighbors? Is there information than hasn't been made public yet? This might be more relevant for Chad's trial.

 

[cottonweaver]

Well that pretty much tells me that Chad wasn't sleeping in the same bed as Tammy. Surely his "portal" wasn't on the bed she slept in, WTH is a portal anyway? Serious question if anyone knows.

Over the years, on HTC interviews there was discussion about whether Chad was actually alone when Tammy was murdered and what time son actually arrived back home.

I'm disregarding Brenda Dye's time of death now because having listened to her testimony on the upload she says she used her hands to touch Tammy's abdomen to help calculate ToD ( Instead of much more reliable rectal thermometer)
So, if Tammy did in fact die closer to midnight, it would be helpful next week - to nail those rumours one way or another & determine from employment records whether son was on a late shift at that local ' Haunted House' * place, or was just across the hall, at home, before midnight.
( Plus this goes back to the option of Alex having gone inside or stayed in the Salem church parking lot)

PS Somebody else might remember name of the place more accurately - Haunted something ( Halloween type entertainment)

 

[cottonweaver]

Your first statement is unsettling, but might be accurate based on what we have heard.

"Reasonable proof and common sense"

I was once on a jury for felony DUI. The guy ran into the back of a fire engine that was protecting an accident at 2:00 in the morning. He was pretty badly injured. There were also several police cars and ambulances around rendering aid for the first accident. That is, lots of flashing lights. This was in Arizona, no issues like fog or anything. Fortunately no one else was hurt but he basically totaled a city fire engine.

It was pretty clear that he was guilty and there was no doubt it was him that hit the fire engine. But we had to find him not guilty. Why? Because they had done multiple blood draws as part of his treatment and all came back under the legal limit at the time (this was a while ago so I think the limit was 0.1%). Anyway, he was given lots of transfusion blood to treat his injuries so probably what happened was he was drunk but by the time they extracted him and transported, he started to sober up and the transfusions only further diluted. Ultimately the prosecution presented 3 blood tests, one from about 5 AM (2 hours after the accident) that showed 0% alcohol, one from about 7 AM that showed just under the legal limit, and another from later that day that showed a very low level.

We all on the jury suspected the first test was just wrong or mixed up because how could his alcohol level go up while he is in the hospital getting transfused? The prosecutor argued we should ignore the first test and kept saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The problem with that argument, which I understand is taught to lawyers is that is is just plain wrong. When you develop a test for something, a negative test is evidence of the absence of whatever you are testing for, part of the test development is ensuring it detects the substance if it is there!

We found him not guilty because there was no evidence of intoxication. He was not charged with anything but a traffic violation for the accident itself. The prosecutor was pissed at us and practically yelled at us afterwards during an off-the-record debriefing that the court allowed! The judge had to shut her down.

I found out later in the newspapers that he and the city were suing each other, him for a couple of million dollars for not setting up the accident response properly and the city for damage to the firetruck. He won partly because of the criminal acquittal. "Won" is probably incorrect. I think the city had to settle. The prosecution was almost 3 years after the accident so it was very suspect from the start. But in the end it was clear it was part of their strategy for the civil suit.

Sounds like the prosecutor tried to bamboozle you all with misapplication of cliche quotes when it's clear that there was direct evidence - Test 1 0% alcohol -not absence of evidence

I trust that both state and judge, later on, will help this jury with guidance re weight given to circumstantial evidence & direct evidence and reasonableness & BRD because it's not as if the jury can go google that like WS members can

well done that jury for not being bamboozled

 

[cottonweaver]

Haven't listened to all of audio yet & probably won't but I did hear Blake ask one of the witnesses - might have been Deputy Coroner Willmore- had she noticed that the ' mattress was off its box springs' & this can be seen in the photograph.
( We didn't get that info in the live tweets )

ofc Chad will have a handy excuse for that at trial but there might be something in it.

 

[cottonweaver]

In fairness, LM also commented later that it was very controlling of Chad to take the phone, especially since he was so upset. Why not let Garth finish the call?

But in contrast to real distress and excessive control, Nate Eaton said he was crying, then stopped to give his name in a normal voice, then was crying again.

Lol. I think the truth in sound is somewhere in the middle. It was a convincing cry- and he stopped the cry voice a bit to give his name.

I also think Chad is just good at pretending to be upset. And when he's afraid, he really dies cry IMO. He may have been real crying because he was afraid his act wouldn't work or the murder would be detected.

MOO

agreed, heard LM say that too, haven't listened to Nate but it's all very astute. Chad is The Husband, the master of his house.
And even a deity in his own head

Agree to all the rest & it's hard to judge these things, because people react differently. Nonetheless to me, it felt more like the reaction you have when, for example, your 96 year old Gma dies after a long period of failing health.


anyway it's telling that they waited around 20 mins to make this call

 

[cottonweaver]

KSLTV channel ( the one which 'scooped' satellite imagery) also commissioned a 3D model of the crime scene. kudos to KSLTV!

Some snippets of that here, at around 4 mins.

Applying evidence to 3D model of Chad Daybell's property

Visual Law Group president Mark Johnson sees three advantages to the use of 3D renderings in the courtroom: education, persuasion and emotion.

ksltv.com

interactive part of it :

Sketchfab

sketchfab.com

 

[Tortoise]

I thought it might be worth revisiting Lori's words on the phone call with MG


(remember you told me JJ went to Kay’s and now he’s not there?)

LV: Well, I had to move him somewhere else because of her actions

(Was she trying to come and get him, like kidnap him?)

LV: Well, yes she said that often times before but, um,

(Is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?)

LV: No, it’s nobody…it’s his danger, it’s the danger that there’s people after me, so it [puts you] in a bad position, everybody, if they don’t know anything then they don’t have to say they know. I’m just ..to keep him protected and keep everybody else..

(why you told police he was with me?)

LV: I just needed to use (…) somebody that so I wouldn’t have to tell them where he really was if they were gonna tell Kay where he is

(is it your family, your dad?)

LV: well my family, well not my whole family, as you know most of my family is working against me and with her basically

(is JJ safe?)

LV: He is safe, and happy

(are you afraid that I could be in danger, like if I knew how could that hurt me, I don’t understand how that could hurt me if I knew where he was)

LV: Well I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or get questioned where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.

(I asked Al, your brother, if I wanted to know where he was and he said I did not want to know and that he could not be found, what does that mean?)

LV: I don’t know why he would say that but it’s the same story like I don’t even want Al to know, I don’t want anybody to know so that nobody has to be worried about it, I mean nobody has to be questioned about it, so he can be safe

LV: The police are working with her (Kay) in some dark capacity so there’s no reason for them to be after me in the first place

(has she threatened you?)

LV: yes lots of times

(what did she say?)

LV: well, it’s in emails and everything, so

(so she was gonna come and take him?)

LV: there’s a lot of things Melanie

(he’s missing)

LV: I know exactly where he is, he’s perfectly fine

(scriptures)

LV: I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case but sometimes you have to hide in the cavity of a rock for your own life safety … there’s zero reason besides the darkness of Kay which you already know she’s dark

(she seems like a normal person…I don’t know that personally)

LV: So you don’t know about her changing the thing to, for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy, so none of that’s dark? You’ve seen them on my computer

(no I have not, I haven’t even looked on your computer before, you haven’t shown me anything)

LV: I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call but I love you with all my heart and I have forever, and I will always

(if you loved me you wouldn’t have told the police I had JJ)

LV: I do and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do and I appreciate you and I love you, and I would never do anything to harm you and you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord

(my conscience is clear and I feel very understanding what’s really going on Lori and I don’t believe what you’re doing is correct, Tammy dies, and then your husband died, and then he’s missing, it just doesn’t sound like God’s plan to me, I never have felt 100% peace about it)

LV: You know me Mel, you know me. This does not sound like you, this sounds like you’ve been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things that have fear, and have fear of the celestial world

(I have a peace of conscience and I can see clearly)

LV: Well I’m sorry that you feel that way, I love you so much

LV: Stand with Christ when he comes again and he’s coming soon and we will all stand there and you will know at that point that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time and I have not been deceived

(Chad: I just want to testify …Tammy…conspiracy theories, my sister in law’s right behind it all and I hope that you’re not being influenced by that dark (keme?)

(I don’t know who she is)

(Chad: I know but she’s coming up with the same type of theories and it’s just not true…blah blah, she just passed away..blah blah, you just have to have faith and this is not some sort of master plan, there’s no way Lori and I could have (laughs) ever come up with this)

(you can understand my concerns right?)

Chad: I can from an outside perspective but..

LV: (Lori cuts him off) From someone who knows as much as you know, NO. Not really. But we can feel Dave’s influence on you, I can feel that for sure.

(he’s a very good man)

(Chad: I know but he seems to be the one that’s putting the doubts in your mind)

(No, I have come to understand that my gut feeling I was not listening to it and I always felt uncomfortable with many things)

Chad: Okay.

LV: Well I’m sorry that I included you in those teachings then, for your own (security?) because I wish that you didn’t have as much knowledge as you have, as you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have Mel.

(so will you)

LV: I agree 100%, I have no fear of that

(scriptures)

(we can wrest the scriptures for our own vainglory)

LV: I wrested the scriptures?? Is that what you’re accusing me of at this point?

(I feel that you have)

LV: how, why do you feel that way, I need an explanation on this

(If he has your back you would not not be able to tell me where you are and we couldn’t find JJ, like where is he, I’ve been asking where is he?)

LV: I could tell everybody where JJ is now and that would not be good for JJ, so I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children

LV: So I can tell that you’re just adversarial Mel, I love you, I’m sorry that you feel this way

(because I actually do care I’m sharing what I feel, for you, because I know your salvation’s in trouble for what you’ve done.)

LV: My salvation is not in trouble, at all. And I think you should check that with the Lord again… I’m sorry that you feel that way sweetheart. I’m sorry that you are friends with all those who are against me…

(I’m not friends with people that are against you)

LV: Apparently you are.

(I’m not. I don’t know Kay, I don’t know talking about your sister in law I don’t even know what her name is, I don’t know any of those people. Why would they contact me anyway? How would I have even known about that?)

LV: Well you’re friends with Dave and apparently …

(stuff about witnesses in the scriptures – nobody has seen that but you, there’s no witness…they had it later with other people, that was one experience but others joined in later when he brought other people into it, they had experiences)

LV: So that’s not a pattern at all?

(honey what I’m saying is that after he saw that and other people joined in, they saw the things with him, he wasn’t alone, there was a witness for them there is no witness anybody’s ever seen what you’ve seen or experienced what you’ve seen)

LV: God knows it and I’ll never deny it, for my soul would be at stake if I did. So you can say it didn’t happen to me Mel but if I say it then I am accountable. You didn’t witness it, but I did.

(but your behaviors is not ok, your behavior is not one of somebody that’s seen Christ, your behavior!)

LV: I never had any idea that you would be the person of all people to (…?) me. I cannot believe it.

(I’m asking questions, and I am concerned for you, that is what somebody does when they care)

LV: you don’t sound like you’re concerned, you sound like you’re accusatory, you do not sound concerned. You sound pissed off.

(I’m not, I am troubled, because these things, like you being with Chad, before he’s even divorced is unusual behavior for a person that’s seen Jesus Christ)

LV: I was never with him and he was never divorced. That’s your story

(honey I’ve seen you guys together, so I’ve never seen you with Chad kiss him, and walk around the track at BYU with him. I never saw that?)

LV: you’re the one that’s feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced

(oh honey, I think that’s not what we’re talking about here)

LV: well it’s not what we’re talking about here that’s what I’m saying you are going off the deep end

LV: have you ever seen Jesus Christ? do know what the future behavior would be if you had seen Jesus Christ? He does protect me and he is protecting me and he will protect me against this accusation as well. And we will both stand there with him and you tell me if I was lying or not, when we’re both standing there with Jesus Christ.

(okay)

call ends

this seems to be the clearer audio from Chad's prelim.

 

[Kemug]

I also think Chad is just good at pretending to be upset. And when he's afraid, he really does cry IMO. He may have been real crying because he was afraid his act wouldn't work or the murder would be detected.

Ri-ight. Let's hope we get to see Chad cry a lot more.

 

[Kemug]

The more I hear about Tammy, the more I think what a lovely woman she was. She was loving and caring to all her family and friends. She did all she could to be a good wife to Chad and a good mother to their children. So what did she do wrong to deserve such a death? Well, nothing, except marrying that #@!* Chad.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Was she fine with Charles’ murder? I suspect she could have been the one to pull the trigger and Alex covered for her. We do not know. If I’m on the jury, I absolutely can see beyond any doubt that she knew about and agreed to each murder and maybe participated in each. With the evidence presented, I would give LV , CD, and AC the harshest sentence available. Although I’m sure Alex is living in his own hell right now.

This is why bringing in the details of charles' murder into THIS trial is so so important.

I can see where they might be holding back on a few facts that will close the case, but they will be from witnesses being brought back to the stand....

 

[indicolite22]

PS Somebody else might remember name of the place more accurately - Haunted something ( Halloween type entertainment)

SBM. Was it The Haunted Mill in Teton?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

You have articulated my take on the trial to date. But we’re not done yet. Typically, prosecutors end their arguments with a bang, not a whimper (apologies to T. S. Eliot), so there may be something damning coming up. I certainly hope so.

My take as well. I do believe that many of the witnesses who have testified so far, could very likely have more details/facts that could 'seal' the case.

I'm sticking with that for now.....

 

[mickey2942]

And Tammy wasn’t cremated.

That actually would have been quite shocking in the LDS religion. Cremation is not the norm.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I thought it might be worth revisiting Lori's words on the phone call with MG


(remember you told me JJ went to Kay’s and now he’s not there?)

LV: Well, I had to move him somewhere else because of her actions

(Was she trying to come and get him, like kidnap him?)

LV: Well, yes she said that often times before but, um,

(Is there a reason I should be in danger to know where he is?)

LV: No, it’s nobody…it’s his danger, it’s the danger that there’s people after me, so it [puts you] in a bad position, everybody, if they don’t know anything then they don’t have to say they know. I’m just ..to keep him protected and keep everybody else..

(why you told police he was with me?)

LV: I just needed to use (…) somebody that so I wouldn’t have to tell them where he really was if they were gonna tell Kay where he is

(is it your family, your dad?)

LV: well my family, well not my whole family, as you know most of my family is working against me and with her basically

(is JJ safe?)

LV: He is safe, and happy

(are you afraid that I could be in danger, like if I knew how could that hurt me, I don’t understand how that could hurt me if I knew where he was)

LV: Well I’m just not telling anybody so that nobody has to say where he is or get questioned where he is so I can keep him as safe as possible.

(I asked Al, your brother, if I wanted to know where he was and he said I did not want to know and that he could not be found, what does that mean?)

LV: I don’t know why he would say that but it’s the same story like I don’t even want Al to know, I don’t want anybody to know so that nobody has to be worried about it, I mean nobody has to be questioned about it, so he can be safe

LV: The police are working with her (Kay) in some dark capacity so there’s no reason for them to be after me in the first place

(has she threatened you?)

LV: yes lots of times

(what did she say?)

LV: well, it’s in emails and everything, so

(so she was gonna come and take him?)

LV: there’s a lot of things Melanie

(he’s missing)

LV: I know exactly where he is, he’s perfectly fine

(scriptures)

LV: I promise you that I have done nothing wrong in this case but sometimes you have to hide in the cavity of a rock for your own life safety … there’s zero reason besides the darkness of Kay which you already know she’s dark

(she seems like a normal person…I don’t know that personally)

LV: So you don’t know about her changing the thing to, for herself to be the beneficiary of the policy, so none of that’s dark? You’ve seen them on my computer

(no I have not, I haven’t even looked on your computer before, you haven’t shown me anything)

LV: I don’t know why you’re being controversial to me or if you’re recording this conversation for the police or whatever, I don’t know what your intention is on this phone call but I love you with all my heart and I have forever, and I will always

(if you loved me you wouldn’t have told the police I had JJ)

LV: I do and I did exactly what I felt the Lord was instructing me to do and I appreciate you and I love you, and I would never do anything to harm you and you can have all of this confirmed to you by the Lord

(my conscience is clear and I feel very understanding what’s really going on Lori and I don’t believe what you’re doing is correct, Tammy dies, and then your husband died, and then he’s missing, it just doesn’t sound like God’s plan to me, I never have felt 100% peace about it)

LV: You know me Mel, you know me. This does not sound like you, this sounds like you’ve been influenced by somebody dark who wants you to believe dark things that have fear, and have fear of the celestial world

(I have a peace of conscience and I can see clearly)

LV: Well I’m sorry that you feel that way, I love you so much

LV: Stand with Christ when he comes again and he’s coming soon and we will all stand there and you will know at that point that he is supporting me and has supported me the whole time and I have not been deceived

(Chad: I just want to testify …Tammy…conspiracy theories, my sister in law’s right behind it all and I hope that you’re not being influenced by that dark (keme?)

(I don’t know who she is)

(Chad: I know but she’s coming up with the same type of theories and it’s just not true…blah blah, she just passed away..blah blah, you just have to have faith and this is not some sort of master plan, there’s no way Lori and I could have (laughs) ever come up with this)

(you can understand my concerns right?)

Chad: I can from an outside perspective but..

LV: (Lori cuts him off) From someone who knows as much as you know, NO. Not really. But we can feel Dave’s influence on you, I can feel that for sure.

(he’s a very good man)

(Chad: I know but he seems to be the one that’s putting the doubts in your mind)

(No, I have come to understand that my gut feeling I was not listening to it and I always felt uncomfortable with many things)

Chad: Okay.

LV: Well I’m sorry that I included you in those teachings then, for your own (security?) because I wish that you didn’t have as much knowledge as you have, as you will be accountable for the knowledge that you do have Mel.

(so will you)

LV: I agree 100%, I have no fear of that

(scriptures)

(we can wrest the scriptures for our own vainglory)

LV: I wrested the scriptures?? Is that what you’re accusing me of at this point?

(I feel that you have)

LV: how, why do you feel that way, I need an explanation on this

(If he has your back you would not not be able to tell me where you are and we couldn’t find JJ, like where is he, I’ve been asking where is he?)

LV: I could tell everybody where JJ is now and that would not be good for JJ, so I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children

LV: So I can tell that you’re just adversarial Mel, I love you, I’m sorry that you feel this way

(because I actually do care I’m sharing what I feel, for you, because I know your salvation’s in trouble for what you’ve done.)

LV: My salvation is not in trouble, at all. And I think you should check that with the Lord again… I’m sorry that you feel that way sweetheart. I’m sorry that you are friends with all those who are against me…

(I’m not friends with people that are against you)

LV: Apparently you are.

(I’m not. I don’t know Kay, I don’t know talking about your sister in law I don’t even know what her name is, I don’t know any of those people. Why would they contact me anyway? How would I have even known about that?)

LV: Well you’re friends with Dave and apparently …

(stuff about witnesses in the scriptures – nobody has seen that but you, there’s no witness…they had it later with other people, that was one experience but others joined in later when he brought other people into it, they had experiences)

LV: So that’s not a pattern at all?

(honey what I’m saying is that after he saw that and other people joined in, they saw the things with him, he wasn’t alone, there was a witness for them there is no witness anybody’s ever seen what you’ve seen or experienced what you’ve seen)

LV: God knows it and I’ll never deny it, for my soul would be at stake if I did. So you can say it didn’t happen to me Mel but if I say it then I am accountable. You didn’t witness it, but I did.

(but your behaviors is not ok, your behavior is not one of somebody that’s seen Christ, your behavior!)

LV: I never had any idea that you would be the person of all people to (…?) me. I cannot believe it.

(I’m asking questions, and I am concerned for you, that is what somebody does when they care)

LV: you don’t sound like you’re concerned, you sound like you’re accusatory, you do not sound concerned. You sound pissed off.

(I’m not, I am troubled, because these things, like you being with Chad, before he’s even divorced is unusual behavior for a person that’s seen Jesus Christ)

LV: I was never with him and he was never divorced. That’s your story

(honey I’ve seen you guys together, so I’ve never seen you with Chad kiss him, and walk around the track at BYU with him. I never saw that?)

LV: you’re the one that’s feeling guilty about being with someone before they were divorced

(oh honey, I think that’s not what we’re talking about here)

LV: well it’s not what we’re talking about here that’s what I’m saying you are going off the deep end

LV: have you ever seen Jesus Christ? do know what the future behavior would be if you had seen Jesus Christ? He does protect me and he is protecting me and he will protect me against this accusation as well. And we will both stand there with him and you tell me if I was lying or not, when we’re both standing there with Jesus Christ.

(okay)

call ends

this seems to be the clearer audio from Chad's prelim.

thanks for this... soooo go to review, and rereview.

 

[887sMtreme]

Think you tagged wrong post.

Yes Tammy was exhumed she wasn't cremated.

I was replying to KMouse

 

[Tortoise]

LV: I could tell everybody where JJ is now and that would not be good for JJ, so I’m sorry that you don’t want me to protect my children but I would never ask you to not protect your children

Notice Lori said children, even though MG was asking about JJ.

So Lori had said nothing about protecting Tylee from Kay up until that point, but because she's inadvertently spoken of more than one of her children at this point, it reveals the lie about the matter being one of protection from Kay, or some irrationally held belief about Kay.

When Lori included the statement to MG "I would never ask you to not protect your children" she is talking about real protection in a situation of exposure to some sort of threat or danger, and that is how MG understood it, which is not comparable to protecting children by releasing them through death from possession by something evil. Therefore we can see that Lori was capable of rational thought and not speaking in terms of the belief system she espoused. Rationality shows that she was not in the grips of delusion. JMO

 

[indicolite22]

Charles sent Tammy an email on Saturday, June 29. We don't know if/when she read it. Two days later, she made her last post on her fb. It was a photo of her and Chad at Mesa Falls.

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[KMouse]

Over the years, on HTC interviews there was discussion about whether Chad was actually alone when Tammy was murdered and what time son actually arrived back home.

I'm disregarding Brenda Dye's time of death now because having listened to her testimony on the upload she says she used her hands to touch Tammy's abdomen to help calculate ToD ( Instead of much more reliable rectal thermometer)
So, if Tammy did in fact die closer to midnight, it would be helpful next week - to nail those rumours one way or another & determine from employment records whether son was on a late shift at that local ' Haunted House' * place, or was just across the hall, at home, before midnight.
( Plus this goes back to the option of Alex having gone inside or stayed in the Salem church parking lot)

PS Somebody else might remember name of the place more accurately - Haunted something ( Halloween type entertainment)

Reading the tweets with Dye's testimony made me angry. She did the Tammy a dirty with her lack of professionalism. Those of us on WS who are not medical examiners even know better. The ToD, the pink foam, the temperature of the body, no autopsy. I really don't understand how that can happen. It was a series of terrible decision making.

 

[SteveS]

[SteveS] "We're hearing a lot of info. But no one is making any effort to tie it to Lori being involved, when it comes to the kids and Tammy. (And what happened to CV is not this case.)"

You have articulated my take on the trial to date. But we’re not done yet. Typically, prosecutors end their arguments with a bang, not a whimper (apologies to T. S. Eliot), so there may be something damning coming up. I certainly hope so.

I hope you are right (when you said "Typically, prosecutors end their arguments with a bang, not a whimper (apologies to T. S. Eliot), so there may be something damning coming up").

We keep being fed evidence that the kids were very dead, murdered. Lots of detail to prove that, over and over. But we don't keep being fed EVIDENCE of Lori's actual involvement or personal participation in any of that, when it happened. Circumstantial evidence is not an excuse for the case not being proven b-a-r-d -- it has to take us (and the jury) to the point where we think Lori's personal participation is PROVEN, not to being left to assume or speculate she maybe was involved or could have known what was going on, before it happened.

I think they really need way more than where we are. Like you, I hope it's coming.

My personal concern is that
(a) there's already been a mountain of testimony,
(b) as we go along, they aren't showing the ties of this evidence to Lori (if that's possible). If I'm a juror, I would likely be thinking "this part wasn't about Lori at all" over and over. How many times can I do that without raising significant doubts in my mind as to whether she was actually a knowing participant in murder, and knew what was about to happen in real time? She had extreme beliefs, but did those include a desire and willingness to murder her own kids?,
(c) it only takes one juror who feels they haven't been given evidence that PROVES that Lori was participating and knew murder was going to happen, and instead feels they are being asked to speculate or assume.