Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #62

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Laughing said:
Possibly Lori's dream job, here:

The hospital has a wide variety of activities available for the patients, including a morning routine called "Rise-N-Shine," which Koontz described as an important part of the day for many people.

"They'll interact with staff, do their hair, do their makeup, get their nails done and feel like real people, not just patients," he said. "They get up and think about looking good and being clean and proud of who they are."


Times of change at State Hospital North

Can you hear my eyes rolling??? Hypothetically.

jmho ymmv lrr
Click to expand...
They should just call it “Jolly Rancher Time” if that’s the case... JMO
 
Aside from all the joking, I am stunned. Given the circumstances, this is JUST the place she would have sought out for herself. She is in her element -- or has access to one -- that will eventually comfortably accommodate her "mental illness."

Can you imagine if these crimes had been committed in Texas? I don't think she would've been so fortunate.
 
alexwood said:
Aside from all the joking, I am stunned. Given the circumstances, this is JUST the place she would have sought out for herself. She is in her element -- or has access to one -- that will eventually comfortably accommodate her "mental illness."

Can you imagine if these crimes had been committed in Texas? I don't think she would've been so fortunate.
Click to expand...

Yes. We know LV is a master manipulator. Wonder if anyone's Google history would show this facility?

She's not local, or native to Idaho. MM is....

So sad to think of Tammy working, raising children, housekeeping, stake responsibilities, and squeaking a profit from CD's books, Charles Vallow nearly in tears asking LE to get Lori some help, Tylee caring for JJ, all in Lori's way. Leaving Colby behind.

And then there's Lori. Untouchable behind walls, unreachable for explanation.

jmho ymmv lrr
 
This is where I would be, in a similar situation.

Bryce Hospital opened in 1861 in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, United States. It is Alabama's oldest and largest inpatient psychiatric facility. First known as the Alabama State Hospital for the Insane[2] and later as the Alabama Insane Hospital, the building is considered an architectural model.***[3] The hospital currently houses 268 beds for acute care, treatment and rehabilitation of full-time (committed) patients. The Mary Starke Harper Geriatric Psychiatry Hospital, a separate facility on the same campus, provides an additional 100 beds for inpatient geriatric care. The main facility was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1977.[1

*** The change of name was not because they decided that "insane" was an outmoded term. It is an architectural model -- not a model for psychiatric inroads to progressive care. It's all about the building. Bryce Hospital - Wikipedia

This is what I have to look forward to. Maybe it's better than the "old age homes". If so, don't think I'll have a problem "faking it" when the time comes!
 
Laughing said:
Yes. We know LV is a master manipulator. Wonder if anyone's Google history would show this facility?

She's not local, or native to Idaho. MM is....

So sad to think of Tammy working, raising children, housekeeping, stake responsibilities, and squeaking a profit from CD's books, Charles Vallow nearly in tears asking LE to get Lori some help, Tylee caring for JJ, all in Lori's way. Leaving Colby behind.

And then there's Lori. Untouchable behind walls, unreachable for explanation.

jmho ymmv lrr
Click to expand...

Yep. Her biggest fan is looking out for her.
 
pizzaman12 said:
BBM- Can you please link this for me. I don't recall that
Click to expand...
I’m sorry. I have followed this case so long with its many twists and turns and it was so many threads back. Chads brother was interviewed and said Chads beliefs had cause a rift in the family. The brother had tried to talk to his parents and others but they all believed in Chad. The brother said he and his wife were ignored after talking with the family. I want to say this interview was before the kids were found but I don’t know. It was discussed here quite a bit.
his brother and wife are LDS snd they knew Chad was strange.
 
From the 48 Hours transcript:

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

Garth Daybell: I was asleep, and I heard a thump … And heard my dad yell, "Garth, Garth, come quick."

Garth found his mother, 49-year-old Tammy Daybell, lying half on the bed, half on the floor.

Garth Daybell: I just ran over and picked her up and put her back on the bed. … And I said to my dad, I said, "I think she's dead."

Leah Murphy [in tears]: It was just so heartbreaking … It just seemed so unfathomable that it could even happen.

Garth Daybell: My dad was just pacing back and forth … Just sayin', "Why? How could the happen?" Pointing at pictures on the wall, "She can't be dead." Like, "how could this be? What do we do?"

When the coroner arrived, the family says, she told them it looked like Tammy had died of natural causes. The children, who say their mother was in failing health, did not question it.​

So I've been trying to make sense of all the discrepancies of Chad's various accounts and Garth's one account. I have no reason to believe Garth is lying to us, so I have to assume that what he is describing is in fact what he saw and experienced that morning. In that light let's take a closer look at what is being shared.

Garth is asleep elsewhere in the house when he is startled awake by a loud thump. He then hears his dad cry out loudly to him to "come quick." He comes running into the room and sees his mother "lying half on the bed, half on the floor."

Let's stop there for a minute. I'm going to assume that the upper half of Tammy's body is what's lying on the floor, while her lower body is still in bed. I say this because I personally have never experienced or known someone to fall out of bed feet first, it's always head first because the bulk of their body mass is in the upper body, and the scene that is being presented to Garth, and what he is now painting for us, is that Tammy had simply fallen out of bed and was needing help.

Garth then runs to his mother's aid, picks her up, and puts her "back on the bed." In the process of doing this he comes to the realization that his mother is dead. Based on his words I don't think he stopped to try shaking her awake, talk to her to get a response, check her pulse, or anything of the like, he just ran to her side, picked her up, and put her back in bed. And yet in those short few seconds of lifting her up and setting her down he knew that she had died. I'm going to guess that rigor mortis had started to set in and/or her body was already cold to the touch. He then turns to his dad and tells him, "I think she's dead."

Here I'll take another pause. One of the first things I'd like to know is where exactly is Chad in all of this? Obviously he was in the bedroom, but where, and what is he doing? He was the first person on scene and he's the one that cried out for help. I don't think he's by Tammy's side though, trying to render aid or anything, because then Garth wouldn't have been able to run up to her and lift her up back into bed. Another indicator that Chad wasn't near Tammy was the fact that Garth felt the need to tell him that he thought she was dead. If Chad had been in close enough proximity to Tammy then he (Chad) would have been able to figure out for himself that she was dead and inform Garth of that fact, not the other way around. And yet it was Garth who felt he had to break the news to his father. Was he laying in bed? Was he standing by the door and/or light switch?

And what about that loud thump? The way that Garth tells the story we can presume that he thought it was caused by his mother falling out of bed. Indeed, why mention it at all unless you're going to give clarity on what caused it - which he does when describing his mother lying half on the floor and half on the bed. That is the picture that was presented to Garth on that fateful morning, and the one that he is now sharing with us. The problem is, how does a dead woman, one who has been dead several hours now, go about falling out of bed?

We are next informed of Chad pacing back and forth asking questions, apparently in shock and denial that Tammy is dead. At some point Chad's other children and 911 must have been called and they, the sheriff's department, and a local coroner show up. The county coroner, an elected official with reportedly limited medical experience, tells the family that "it looked like Tammy had died of natural causes."

I can't help but wonder if she saw Tammy lying there "peacefully" in bed, maybe heard the family (trying to make sense of her sudden passing) talking about an apparent sickness and coughing, with slowly failing health, and just decided to attribute her death to "natural causes." I also can't help but wonder if Garth had left Tammy on the floor the way he found her, if seeing her like that might have raised some red flags from LE or the coroner, instead of in bed as though she had died in her sleep. I don't fault Garth for doing it, as it was a natural response to try and help his mom up off the floor, but he may have inadvertently helped his dad hide or alter evidence in what very likely could have been a crime scene.

So, going back to the beginning, I suspect one of two things happened. 1) Chad carefully staged the scene of Tammy's death, or 2) he was in the middle of moving Tammy's body and accidentally dropped her, making the loud thump, and had to quickly cover for his mistake. Any other scenario doesn't make much sense considering all the details we know from the various accounts of that morning:

Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #62

Consider:

  • Chad wakes up next to Tammy in bed. According to him she died peacefully in her sleep. "When I awoke at around 6 a.m., it was clear she had been gone for several hours. I couldn't believe I hadn't been awakened somehow, but all indications are that her spirit simply slipped away during the night. Her face looked serene, with her eyes closed and a slight smile." (account #5)
Observations: If he awoke next to her in bed, and was easily able to tell that she had been dead for several hours, and could clearly see her face well enough to describe her as "serene" and with a "slight smile," then how is it that Garth found her "lying half on the bed, half on the floor" (presumably with her upper body and head being the half that's on the floor)? If Garth truly found his mother in the position he claims to have found her in (and I have no reason to doubt that he's telling the truth) then there is absolutely no way Chad would have been able to see the details of her face while laying down on his side of the bed. And speaking of being able to see...

If Chad did awaken "around 6 am.," then how would he have been able to see anything without artificial lighting in the room? According to timeanddate.com sunrise for Rigby, Idaho on October 19, 2019, was 7:46 am., nearly two hours after the time he claims to have woken up. Civil twilight was at 7:17 am., while nautical twilight started at 6:44 am., and astronomical twilight began at 6:10 am. Astronomical twilight is when "sky illumination is so faint that most casual observers would regard the sky as fully dark, especially under urban or suburban light pollution. Under astronomical twilight, the horizon is not discernible and moderately faint stars or planets can be observed with the naked eye under a non light polluted sky. " (Source: Twilight Types. ) Essentially it would have still been fully night. Therefore Chad would not have been able to see anything, let alone details of Tammy's appearance, without some kind of light source on in the room.

  • Chad wakes up to find Tammy had fallen out of bed. According to one of Chad's nephews, "I was told by family that Chad woke up in the morning to find Tammy had fallen out of bed and found her cold when he went to check on her. I was also told she woke up in the middle of the night to the coughing and vomiting, and I assume Chad woke up and witnessed this, but Tammy went back to bed at some point. It's been pointed out to me though that what happened that night has likely only been told by Chad, and he's been shown as lying to everyone for some time now." (account #3)
    ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3
Observations: This account more closely matches Garth's, which both contradict Chad's narrative #5 above. In this one it is said that when Chad woke in the morning he found Tammy had fallen out of bed (implied is that she was fully on the floor, not necessarily half on and half off). He then went to check on her "and found her cold." I'm going to assume that it would have been at this point when he would have called out for Garth. I say this because at no point in Garth's account does he describe his father as checking on her or telling Garth that he knew she was dead because she was cold, so all of this likely took place before Garth entered the scene. He would have made his assessment and then called for Garth.

The way this account is worded it's hard to tell if Chad was awoken by Tammy falling out of bed, or if he simply awoke and saw that she had fallen out of bed at some point. Either scenario brings up questions. If her falling is what caused Chad (and Garth) to wake up then how did she fall when she'd been dead for several hours? If instead she fell out of bed hours earlier then how did Chad (or Garth) not wake up at that time?

Sorry for the long ramble. These differing accounts just keep bothering me. I'll try and wrap this up.

Now, the reason I mentioned earlier my belief that either Chad carefully staged the scene, or that he made a mistake in moving her body, is the position of Tammy's body. I had always assumed her whole body was on the floor, but Garth's account is the first time I've heard her being half on the bed and half on the floor. That seems so strange to me. It is very difficult, and uncomfortable, to keep one's body half on a bed and half on the floor. And if one were to accidentally (or even intentionally) fall out of bed it is almost certain that the whole body (or the vast majority of it) ends up on the floor. Why is Tammy different? I suspect, at least in part, that rigor mortis may have been setting in when she was pushed or dropped into that position and so her body didn't react the way it normally would have.

This is completely speculation on my part. I am not a forensic scientist, crime scene specialist, or anything of the like. So, just in case it's needed,... MOO.
 
Onsdag said:
From the 48 Hours transcript:

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

Garth Daybell: I was asleep, and I heard a thump … And heard my dad yell, "Garth, Garth, come quick."

Garth found his mother, 49-year-old Tammy Daybell, lying half on the bed, half on the floor.

Garth Daybell: I just ran over and picked her up and put her back on the bed. … And I said to my dad, I said, "I think she's dead."

Leah Murphy [in tears]: It was just so heartbreaking … It just seemed so unfathomable that it could even happen.

Garth Daybell: My dad was just pacing back and forth … Just sayin', "Why? How could the happen?" Pointing at pictures on the wall, "She can't be dead." Like, "how could this be? What do we do?"

When the coroner arrived, the family says, she told them it looked like Tammy had died of natural causes. The children, who say their mother was in failing health, did not question it.​

So I've been trying to make sense of all the discrepancies of Chad's various accounts and Garth's one account. I have no reason to believe Garth is lying to us, so I have to assume that what he is describing is in fact what he saw and experienced that morning. In that light let's take a closer look at what is being shared.

Garth is asleep elsewhere in the house when he is startled awake by a loud thump. He then hears his dad cry out loudly to him to "come quick." He comes running into the room and sees his mother "lying half on the bed, half on the floor."

Let's stop there for a minute. I'm going to assume that the upper half of Tammy's body is what's lying on the floor, while her lower body is still in bed. I say this because I personally have never experienced or known someone to fall out of bed feet first, it's always head first because the bulk of their body mass is in the upper body, and the scene that is being presented to Garth, and what he is now painting for us, is that Tammy had simply fallen out of bed and was needing help.

Garth then runs to his mother's aid, picks her up, and puts her "back on the bed." In the process of doing this he comes to the realization that his mother is dead. Based on his words I don't think he stopped to try shaking her awake, talk to her to get a response, check her pulse, or anything of the like, he just ran to her side, picked her up, and put her back in bed. And yet in those short few seconds of lifting her up and setting her down he knew that she had died. I'm going to guess that rigor mortis had started to set in and/or her body was already cold to the touch. He then turns to his dad and tells him, "I think she's dead."

Here I'll take another pause. One of the first things I'd like to know is where exactly is Chad in all of this? Obviously he was in the bedroom, but where, and what is he doing? He was the first person on scene and he's the one that cried out for help. I don't think he's by Tammy's side though, trying to render aid or anything, because then Garth wouldn't have been able to run up to her and lift her up back into bed. Another indicator that Chad wasn't near Tammy was the fact that Garth felt the need to tell him that he thought she was dead. If Chad had been in close enough proximity to Tammy then he (Chad) would have been able to figure out for himself that she was dead and inform Garth of that fact, not the other way around. And yet it was Garth who felt he had to break the news to his father. Was he laying in bed? Was he standing by the door and/or light switch?

And what about that loud thump? The way that Garth tells the story we can presume that he thought it was caused by his mother falling out of bed. Indeed, why mention it at all unless you're going to give clarity on what caused it - which he does when describing his mother lying half on the floor and half on the bed. That is the picture that was presented to Garth on that fateful morning, and the one that he is now sharing with us. The problem is, how does a dead woman, one who has been dead several hours now, go about falling out of bed?

We are next informed of Chad pacing back and forth asking questions, apparently in shock and denial that Tammy is dead. At some point Chad's other children and 911 must have been called and they, the sheriff's department, and a local coroner show up. The county coroner, an elected official with reportedly limited medical experience, tells the family that "it looked like Tammy had died of natural causes."

I can't help but wonder if she saw Tammy lying there "peacefully" in bed, maybe heard the family (trying to make sense of her sudden passing) talking about an apparent sickness and coughing, with slowly failing health, and just decided to attribute her death to "natural causes." I also can't help but wonder if Garth had left Tammy on the floor the way he found her, if seeing her like that might have raised some red flags from LE or the coroner, instead of in bed as though she had died in her sleep. I don't fault Garth for doing it, as it was a natural response to try and help his mom up off the floor, but he may have inadvertently helped his dad hide or alter evidence in what very likely could have been a crime scene.

So, going back to the beginning, I suspect one of two things happened. 1) Chad carefully staged the scene of Tammy's death, or 2) he was in the middle of moving Tammy's body and accidentally dropped her, making the loud thump, and had to quickly cover for his mistake. Any other scenario doesn't make much sense considering all the details we know from the various accounts of that morning:

Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #62

Consider:

  • Chad wakes up next to Tammy in bed. According to him she died peacefully in her sleep. "When I awoke at around 6 a.m., it was clear she had been gone for several hours. I couldn't believe I hadn't been awakened somehow, but all indications are that her spirit simply slipped away during the night. Her face looked serene, with her eyes closed and a slight smile." (account #5)
Observations: If he awoke next to her in bed, and was easily able to tell that she had been dead for several hours, and could clearly see her face well enough to describe her as "serene" and with a "slight smile," then how is it that Garth found her "lying half on the bed, half on the floor" (presumably with her upper body and head being the half that's on the floor)? If Garth truly found his mother in the position he claims to have found her in (and I have no reason to doubt that he's telling the truth) then there is absolutely no way Chad would have been able to see the details of her face while laying down on his side of the bed. And speaking of being able to see...

If Chad did awaken "around 6 am.," then how would he have been able to see anything without artificial lighting in the room? According to timeanddate.com sunrise for Rigby, Idaho on October 19, 2019, was 7:46 am., nearly two hours after the time he claims to have woken up. Civil twilight was at 7:17 am., while nautical twilight started at 6:44 am., and astronomical twilight began at 6:10 am. Astronomical twilight is when "sky illumination is so faint that most casual observers would regard the sky as fully dark, especially under urban or suburban light pollution. Under astronomical twilight, the horizon is not discernible and moderately faint stars or planets can be observed with the naked eye under a non light polluted sky. " (Source: Twilight Types. ) Essentially it would have still been fully night. Therefore Chad would not have been able to see anything, let alone details of Tammy's appearance, without some kind of light source on in the room.

  • Chad wakes up to find Tammy had fallen out of bed. According to one of Chad's nephews, "I was told by family that Chad woke up in the morning to find Tammy had fallen out of bed and found her cold when he went to check on her. I was also told she woke up in the middle of the night to the coughing and vomiting, and I assume Chad woke up and witnessed this, but Tammy went back to bed at some point. It's been pointed out to me though that what happened that night has likely only been told by Chad, and he's been shown as lying to everyone for some time now." (account #3)
    ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #3
Observations: This account more closely matches Garth's, which both contradict Chad's narrative #5 above. In this one it is said that when Chad woke in the morning he found Tammy had fallen out of bed (implied is that she was fully on the floor, not necessarily half on and half off). He then went to check on her "and found her cold." I'm going to assume that it would have been at this point when he would have called out for Garth. I say this because at no point in Garth's account does he describe his father as checking on her or telling Garth that he knew she was dead because she was cold, so all of this likely took place before Garth entered the scene. He would have made his assessment and then called for Garth.

The way this account is worded it's hard to tell if Chad was awoken by Tammy falling out of bed, or if he simply awoke and saw that she had fallen out of bed at some point. Either scenario brings up questions. If her falling is what caused Chad (and Garth) to wake up then how did she fall when she'd been dead for several hours? If instead she fell out of bed hours earlier then how did Chad (or Garth) not wake up at that time?

Sorry for the long ramble. These differing accounts just keep bothering me. I'll try and wrap this up.

Now, the reason I mentioned earlier my belief that either Chad carefully staged the scene, or that he made a mistake in moving her body, is the position of Tammy's body. I had always assumed her whole body was on the floor, but Garth's account is the first time I've heard her being half on the bed and half on the floor. That seems so strange to me. It is very difficult, and uncomfortable, to keep one's body half on a bed and half on the floor. And if one were to accidentally (or even intentionally) fall out of bed it is almost certain that the whole body (or the vast majority of it) ends up on the floor. Why is Tammy different? I suspect, at least in part, that rigor mortis may have been setting in when she was pushed or dropped into that position and so her body didn't react the way it normally would have.

This is completely speculation on my part. I am not a forensic scientist, crime scene specialist, or anything of the like. So, just in case it's needed,... MOO.
Click to expand...

OK, we totally need you on the prosecution team! You’re in charge of opening and closing statements in addition to questioning the Daybell kids on the stand.
 
I can not understand how those children can think, let alone say that their father is being framed. Do they think this is only about the children being found buried in their backyard. Their Father has been indicted for the murder of their Mother. So apparently there is enough evidence from the autopsy to indict him. I'm sure by now those children must understand what indictment means. If I were those children I would cut off all communication with CD and move as far away as I could and change my name. And never look back.
 
I watched last nights 20/20 episode with the Daybell children...

As Emma is outside on the property showing the pet cemetery and where the children were found, she then points to a different pet cemetery. They have two pet cemeteries. These are young people. What's happening to their pets that requires two pet cemeteries on their property? Did she actually mean two pet graves, or are their two cemeteries?

Graphic questions: Was Tylee dismembered and burned on this same property?

Why all the duct tape on little JJ?

I've followed along, but missed facts here and there while trying to play catch up.
 
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