IDI and RDI, what do they agree upon?

[madeleine]

9 Q. Are you familiar that Mr. Ubowski

10 stated that he had never reached the

11 conclusion that 24 of her letters out of the

12 26 letters of the alphabet were matched with

13 the ransom note?

14 A. No, I have not heard that.

15 Q. And you stated to the contrary in

16 your book, didn't you?

17 A. Yeah, I stated what I was told by

18 my detective sergeant.


---------------

re the fibers

2 Q. All right. So you never

3 personally saw a report with that result or

4 that conclusion?

5 A. I'm relying on a fellow officer.


http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/09212001Depo-SteveThomas.htm


Open your eyes.
This is the RDI "evidence" in this case.hear-say and bias.

 

[madeleine]

14 Q. Well, did all the experts agree

15 that JonBenet Ramsey was alive at the time of

16 the injury to her vagina?

17 A. Again, I don't know what experts

18 you're referring to but we had --

19 Q. The ones that you listened to.

20 A. Let me finish, Mr. Wood.

21 Q. The ones that your department

22 hired?

23 A. At times there was, among experts,

24 as was to be expected, there was conflict of

25 opinion. But regarding the prior vaginal



301



1 trauma if that's what you're asking about,

2 this blue ribbon panel of pediatric medical

3 experts they brought in seemed to me to be

4 in agreement on some other conclusions.

5 Q. I'm talking about the acute

6 vaginal trauma she suffered at the time of

7 her murder. The agreement was unanimous that

8 she was alive at the time that that vaginal

9 trauma was inflicted, true?

10 A. Yes, I believe that's correct.

http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/09212001Depo-SteveThomas.htm

 

[madeleine]

14 Q. Was there any test done on the

15 duct tape that would establish the imprint of

16 JonBenet's lip prints on that tape?

17 A. Was there any test that would

18 establish that?

19 Q. Did you all to your knowledge, did

20 the Boulder Police Department conduct any test

21 that would establish that the duct tape that

22 was pulled off of her mouth by John Ramsey

23 that was then picked up by Fleet White was

24 found somehow to contain a perfect set of

25 JonBenet's lip prints, was any test performed



359



1 that made that finding?

2 A. There was an examination apparently

3 done at some point which was reported back to

4 a detective briefing at which I was present

5 and I believe that was Wickman or Trujillo

6 that shared that information.
7 Q. Who conducted that examination?

8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. Was it an expert of some type?

10 A. I don't know that there is such a

11 thing as an expert examination and there is

12 no testing that I'm aware of. I think

13 that's more common sense observation.

 

[joeskidbeck]

It's pretty obvious that RDI/IDI's dont agree on very much here. I am RDI all the way
(it was an accident), but there is ONE thing that would change me to IDI. If John Ramsey were still actively seeking his daughter's murderer and being very vocal about it as almost anyone else would be in his position. His inaction speaks to the fact that he is very relieved to be out from under that umbrella.

 

[madeleine]

John Ramsey doesn't have access to the police files.What can he work with??Interview the suspects?Check their alibi's?Collect fibers and DNA?

 

[BBB167893]

then you said Perhaps there is some language barrier here, but that sounds to me like you are saying, 'lawyers defend you like you are guilty because most of their clients ARE guilty and most people would probably agree that's what happened here". That certainly sounds to me like you are saying they are probably guilty because they got a lawyer.

Sorry. You're right, I was not as clear as I wanted to be. I meant to say that people would agree that the lawyers defended the Rs like they were guilty. LW himself has said as much. I was not trying to imply that the Rs hiring a lawyer automatically points to guilt. I was trying to point out how difficult it can be for a person who is truly innocent when a lawyer gets involved. Either way, my point is that a person should go into something like this with their eyes open.

I'll give you an example. Tom Miller was clearly innocent, and he hired a lawyer. Darn good thing, too, even though Miller himself was a lawyer.

12-27-96 Arndt Interviewed Ramseys. The Ramseys were interviewed by Linda Arndt

Taken from Police Press Releases:

"December 27, 1996 Commander Eller added, "The family has been cooperative and our investigation is continuing.

December 28, 1996 The family is cooperating with the investigation which is ongoing.

December 29, 1996 The family continues to cooperate with the police investigation, although police have not yet conducted interviews with the father and mother. They have been in no condition to be interviewed up to this point."

I'm not arguing that. It was after the CNN interviews that the cops began to wise up. I believe ST wrote something to the effect of "they're not in any shape to talk to us, but they can go on CNN?"

I don't. It was stated that within 20 minutes of finding the body, the parents were the prime suspects. This didn't seem to change much.

I honestly don't know who stated that.

Many other unspecified people and police officers might have disagreed.

I'm not aware of any. I know plenty of hard-left defense lawyers who have, though. But that's how they make their living.

Don't bring OJ into this.

Why not?

I'm not sure this is true,

I can guarantee it is. You ask around, MurriFlower. Opinions about me may differ greatly, but one thing everyone agrees on: I'm no liar.

Wolf v Ramsey 2003 Brown cotton fibers on JonBenet's body, the paintbrush, the duct tape and on the ligature were not sourced and do not match anything in the Ramsey home.
(SMF 181; PSMF 181. )

I wouldn't rely on that too much, considering the one-sided nature of it.

If there were fibers from the red/black/grey coat in the paint tote and the killer made the garotte from one of the paintbrushes in there, that explains it. The fibers could have gotten there at any time. It was their house remember and the basement is where the washer/dryer was.

There's just one thing wrong with that. PR admitted she never painted with those clothes on or went into that room with them on. It's in the 2000 interviews.

This is probably one instance where a witness tried to explain something that didn't exist.

Highly doubtful.

It's what I wrote earlier: if you know it, say so; if you don't know it, don't say anything; don't speculate about something that may have never happened. She was probably just sucked into trying to come up with an explanation, because that's what they asked her to do.

I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. For one thing, she couldn't explain it when they told her about it; it took two full years to come up with an explanation, and it was not made to a policeman or attorney, but to a news reporter. It's like I say in the book: I hope she asked her lawyer for her money back. Truth be told, she would have been better off following your advice.

 

[BBB167893]

There is no possibility that as Patsy covered her baby's body with hers that microscopic fibers drifted onto/into this material?

Which material are you referring to?

That these blankets didn't have those fibers on them, nor did the sweatshirt? What about the carpeting or the floor in the basement?

This didn't happen in the basement, Fang. It happened in the living room. And she hadn't even been in that room until after JB was covered. See the problem?

If my daughter was found in similar condition as JonBenet Ramsey, and the cops suspected and interrogated me, well, let's put it this way. Have you heard about the extreme danger of approaching a mother bear when her cubs are present?

That's another problem, Fang: the way the Rs were so willing to leave the house with the body still there. As ST wrote, you have to DRAG most parents away.

 

[madeleine]

Re Patsy on CNN.Did she seem in a good shape to you?Capable of answering questions that require a clear head?I wouldn't have allowed her to answer LE questions in that shape either.Imagine what would have said the likes of ST THEN.

 

[madeleine]

As ST wrote, you have to DRAG most parents away.

Being different doesn't make you guilty.But I know how much ST loves statistics.

 

[BBB167893]

"Look at the parents.No bull****,that's where you need to be."
+
I looked into his eyes and knew who the killer is.
+
"We had to determine if that was somehow related to her death" (diapers hanging halfway off the shelf) -this after talking to someone who was still a suspect (LHP)
+all the RDI leaks


I see LOTS of problems here.
This is how it started.

Look, I won't give you any argument about Linda Arndt. And as for the leaks, that was pretty much a free-for-all. Everybody bears some blame there. But as for Walker, what was he supposed to do? He knew these things from experience. I can't say that I would have done any differently. If anyone deserves blame, it's John Eller.

 

[BBB167893]

By definition that means bruising should be seen on her scalp, doesn't it? Brain swelling, as described, necessarily means that blood vessels burst like mad inside her skull from what seems to be blunt force trauma. Corresponding hemorrhaging of vessels within and around the skull would reveal evidence of contusions to the exterior surface.

The problem there, fang, is that when deep shock sets in, it draws blood AWAY from the skin to better support the internals.

 

[BBB167893]

LE checked out all the leads,YEAH RIGHT.People were cleared based on handwriting because ST just "KNEW" that PR wrote the note and she killed her child over a bed-wetting issue.

And you all wonder why this is a cold case.........

Oh, come on, madeleine. Don't waste time with that. You talk as if he was the only person working the case or if he had everyone else hypnotized. For Odin's sake, they were interviewing convicts in North Carolina. So don't tell me they weren't following every lead. Henry Lee himself has said several times that every possible scenario was examined in the DA's office. I honestly don't know what more there is to give.

 

[joeskidbeck]

John Ramsey doesn't have access to the police files.What can he work with??Interview the suspects?Check their alibi's?Collect fibers and DNA?

I don't believe he should be investigating the case. He should use the media and be very vocal about his daughter and the fact that someone is getting away with an atrocious murder. It really bugged me when he expressed sympathy for JMK when they took him into custody. Sympathy? Because he didn't want to speculate on his innocence or guilt? I dont think that would have been the first thought on any parents mind. This man has money and if he expressed the desire to find the real murderer, msm would line up at his door with lights and cameras blazing. I have no doubt he could be on every tv channel any time he desired. He does not desire. He does not care. It's exactly as Patsy wanted things to be, they got on with their lives. End of a really sad story. I wish.

 

[madeleine]

Look, I won't give you any argument about Linda Arndt. And as for the leaks, that was pretty much a free-for-all. Everybody bears some blame there. But as for Walker, what was he supposed to do? He knew these things from experience. I can't say that I would have done any differently. If anyone deserves blame, it's John Eller.

I guess I blame others for interpreting what Walker told them and using it as an excuse for what they did or didn't do.I don't think that he even knew who he's dealing with,I bet he would have explained them in a different manner what he meant.If you take what he said out of the big picture maybe his intentions were good and he wanted to help those newbies out.But look what came out of it and if you add Arndt and Thomas to the bowl you end up with the reason why this is still a cold case.

 

[BBB167893]

Open your eyes.
This is the RDI "evidence" in this case.hear-say and bias.

I can tell you from personal experience that's not so.

 

[madeleine]

For Odin's sake, they were interviewing convicts in North Carolina.

I know they were,or better said they just pretended to do that...
I am sorry Dave,I just don't trust the way it was done anymore.
Take the house-keeper for example.They spent all the time with building a theory based on LHP's claims but they never bothered to talk to the other one who had nothing bad to say about the Ramsey's. (sorry forgot her name now).Maybe she would have told them something about another suspect who knew the family/house,you never know,but they never asked or insisted.

 

[madeleine]

I can tell you from personal experience that's not so.

How do you explain the sexual assault when even ST confirms that all the experts agreed she was ALIVE when it happened?She was ALIVE when she was strangled (the autopsy report says so).You can't say that these were parts of a staging anymore.What proof of staging is there,Dave?

 

[madeleine]

There are experts who say that PR wrote the note,experts who say that JMK wrote the note,experts who can't eliminate some other suspects,experts who state that pr definitely DIDN'T write the note.What is this mess?
And the ones claiming that PR wrote it were hired for the Wolf suit so it's a bit different if you ask me.It was a civil case where a suspect blamed another suspect.Andthey didn't even analyze the originals.Please let me have my doubts re this.

 

[Roy23]

How do you explain the sexual assault when even ST confirms that all the experts agreed she was ALIVE when it happened?She was ALIVE when she was strangled (the autopsy report says so).You can't say that these were parts of a staging anymore.What proof of staging is there,Dave?

I wish you were deposing Steve Thomas. Another homerun Maddy.

 

[BOESP]

I wish you were deposing Steve Thomas. Another homerun Maddy.

Please remind everyone that to the layman JonBenet likely appeared to be dead or near death from the blunt trauma to the head. At that point, a ligature device as a staging instrument is in the realm of possibility.

It also seems obvious to me that whoever is responsible for that trauma suspected she was dead or so near death as to render survival as little more than being in a vegetative state. It is highly unlikely she would have survived such trauma and I suspect the offender could have thought so too.