If JonBenet's death was an accident...

[txsvicki]

Even though papoose wrapping wouldn't cover up the whole face, John never actually says whether or not JonBenet's face was covered or not does he? They say the arms and legs were sticking out and the blanket was folded over, but nothing about the face.

 

[Ames]

This is so funny. What we are discussing is RDIs view that the R's together or in collusion, killed and staged their daughter's murder on the one hand. Then on the other hand RDI are saying that JR knew where she was or even that he moved her from somewhere else (in the house) earlier in the day, so she would be found. I'm not sure where she was moved from they haven't worked that out yet. Then they are saying that given an opportunity, (asked to search by LA) he went straight to where he already knew she was, without even pretending to search. But instead of calling for the Cops so they could see all his hard work in staging and laying out the body so it looked like someone else had done it, he picked her up and carried her upstairs. He then gave LA 'a look' that convinced her he was guilty (rather than looking like the innocent grieving father he was pretending to be). Following this, when interviewed, he described how he had found her, wrapped in the blanket and in doing so, apparently implicated himself, because as RDI ask themselves who else but a parent would do this.

All the funnier, because you don't even know this doesn't make any sense at all. You guys crack me up!!

Happy to humor you...because the IDI theory cracks ME up. HAHAHA

If your daughter was kidnapped from her BEDROOM, and you were told to help search the house for clues....where is the first place that YOU would look???

 

[KariKae]

You are welcome!! Patsy also tried to explain away her jacket/sweater fibers found on JB, by saying that they had gotten there when she flung herself on JB's body (when she FINALLY decided to get up from the couch), but....as you stated....she was already covered by then, with a sweat shirt and a blanket...the fibers would have been on THOSE two things...not on the underside (sticky side) of the tape that had covered JB's mouth...that JR removed while they were still in the WC (or not to mention....the paint tote...and entwined in the garotte). Why would anybody sit on a couch with friends...and flip through a photo album, looking at photos of their kidnapped child in the first place?? Certainly they could have found something more useful to do. I could see maybe flipping through a photo album and strolling down memory lane...like later...at a memorial service, or after a funeral or something. NOT after finding a RN, and finding your child missing. It's as if....she already knew that she was dead or something. (Hmmmm....)

On the assumption John knew JBR was deceased, why would he bring her upstairs for her mother (and the rest of the Ramsey troop) to see? I would think most men would want to protect their wives from such a ghastly image.

 

[SunnieRN]

Maybe to undo the scene that was set, or to have a reason to try and explain the fiber evidence later found. It didn't actually explain anything, as the fibers were part of the crime scene and not where JB was placed in the living room, but, this I am sure destroyed some evidence.

 

[DeeDee249]

On the assumption John knew JBR was deceased, why would he bring her upstairs for her mother (and the rest of the Ramsey troop) to see? I would think most men would want to protect their wives from such a ghastly image.

Maybe to be sure he could account for his fibers or other material being on the body. Interesting he CLAIMED to have administered CRP on her in the basement, yet none of his DNA (from saliva) were found when swabs of her mouth were taken.
Remember, he was also told by Det. LA NOT to touch anything but to call her if he found something unusual. I'd say his daughter's corpse would fall into that category. Patsy had no problem throwing herself on this "ghastly" image. Then she also could try to explain her fibers being there. Unfortunately, two places were they were found REMAINED in the basement (tape and paint tote) and one place was covered with a blanket and lying against the floor, away from Patsy (the knot of the cord).

 

[DeeDee249]

This is so funny.
All the funnier, because you don't even know this doesn't make any sense at all. You guys crack me up!!

NOTHING strikes me funny about the grisly discovery of a little girl's body in the basement of her home, not even the pathetic excuses IDI make for the Rs.

 

[MurriFlower]

NOTHING strikes me funny about the grisly discovery of a little girl's body in the basement of her home, not even the pathetic excuses IDI make for the Rs.

It's funny to see RDI coming up with so many scenarios to explain their theory, they end up cancelling each other out. It's like watching a group of contortionists playing twister.

 

[SunnieRN]

Maybe to be sure he could account for his fibers or other material being on the body. Interesting he CLAIMED to have administered CRP on her in the basement, yet none of his DNA (from saliva) were found when swabs of her mouth were taken.
Remember, he was also told by Det. LA NOT to touch anything but to call her if he found something unusual. I'd say his daughter's corpse would fall into that category. Patsy had no problem throwing herself on this "ghastly" image. Then she also could try to explain her fibers being there. Unfortunately, two places were they were found REMAINED in the basement (tape and paint tote) and one place was covered with a blanket and lying against the floor, away from Patsy (the knot of the cord).

As well as fibers from JB's vaginal area, from John's sweater. Kind of difficult, to impossible, to explain that all away, due to the location JonBenet was found. Neither parent was dressed for painting, or, cleaning the wine cellar for that matter.

MF humor me. Since you are laughing AT all of us and our theories, give us a brief synopsis of all the theories you have posted or eluded to in the past several weeks that were proven to be incorrect, or totally blown out of the water. At least the theories we have put forth are plausible and appropriate to the known facts. Those facts being that the only people proven to be in the house that night, in addition to JonBenet, were John, Patsy and Burke.

 

[SunnieRN]

It's funny to see RDI coming up with so many scenarios to explain their theory, they end up cancelling each other out. It's like watching a group of contortionists playing twister.

Again MF, list a few of the theories, wild and crazy as they have been, that you have come up with, in comparison to the more sane RDI theories of the past few weeks. Yours cancelled themselves out within 2-3 posts of each other, when you were PROVEN to be wrong. You are most definately leaps and bounds ahead in twisting proven information to try and place smoke and mirrors that may confuse new posters, or fence sitters.

Any RDI theorists, as our theories are based upon KNOWN facts, constantly and consistently blow your ships, out of the water. Your ideas, full of conflicting and random thoughts, with no links or proof to back them up, not so much.

If you would try to PROVE some of your ideas, instead of being trite and condescending, they might be taken seriously, rather than ignored. Of course that would mean that instead of arguing, for the sake of arguing, you would have to PROVE your point. Unfortunately, this has been sorely lacking and leads to re-hashing of items over and over again, as you are throwing out your unproven, incorrect, opinions vs RDI facts.

REMEMBER, the only people PROVEN to be at 755 15th Street that night, were JonBenet, Patsy, John and Burke. If you believe there was an intruder, prove it. No one else, BPD, Lou Smit, the Ramseys' or John Douglas could and they have been trying for 14 years.

 

[MurriFlower]

Again MF, list a few of the theories, wild and crazy as they have been, that you have come up with, in comparison to the more sane RDI theories of the past few weeks. Yours cancelled themselves out within 2-3 posts of each other, when you were PROVEN to be wrong. You are most definately leaps and bounds ahead in twisting proven information to try and place smoke and mirrors that may confuse new posters, or fence sitters.

Any RDI theorists, as our theories are based upon KNOWN facts, constantly and consistently blow your ships, out of the water. Your ideas, full of conflicting and random thoughts, with no links or proof to back them up, not so much.

If you would try to PROVE some of your ideas, instead of being trite and condescending, they might be taken seriously, rather than ignored. Of course that would mean that instead of arguing, for the sake of arguing, you would have to PROVE your point. Unfortunately, this has been sorely lacking and leads to re-hashing of items over and over again, as you are throwing out your unproven, incorrect, opinions vs RDI facts.

REMEMBER, the only people PROVEN to be at 755 15th Street that night, were JonBenet, Patsy, John and Burke. If you believe there was an intruder, prove it. No one else, BPD, Lou Smit, the Ramseys' or John Douglas could and they have been trying for 14 years.

Ah yes, the KNOWN RDI FACTS. Just remind me again of what these are??

 

[DeeDee249]

It's funny to see RDI coming up with so many scenarios to explain their theory, they end up cancelling each other out. It's like watching a group of contortionists playing twister.

None of our theories cancel any other ones out. One is correct, the others are not. That's it.

And NONE of them are funny.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ah yes, the KNOWN RDI FACTS. Just remind me again of what these are??

Well- one of them is that ONLY Patsy, JR and BR were PROVEN to be in the house at the time JB was killed. FACT.

No PROOF of an intruder in the home has ever been put forth. The DNA you are about to mention exists only on 2 articles of clothing, and consists of ambiguously placed skin cells. NONE of this DNA was ever found anywhere else in the home, especially the crime scene, despite all of the activities all over the house (JB's bedroom, the kitchen, fridge, utility drawer (for the flashlight), placing the "strange" tissue box, climbing in and out of the window well, the grate, suitcase, broken window, pineapple bowl, spoon, teabag and glass, etc) which would have resulted in the deposit of that DNA.
And I don't give a rat's patoot what ML says about it.

 

[MurriFlower]

Well- one of them is that ONLY Patsy, JR and BR were PROVEN to be in the house at the time JB was killed. FACT.

No PROOF of an intruder in the home has ever been put forth. The DNA you are about to mention exists only on 2 articles of clothing, and consists of ambiguously placed skin cells. NONE of this DNA was ever found anywhere else in the home, especially the crime scene, despite all of the activities all over the house (JB's bedroom, the kitchen, fridge, utility drawer (for the flashlight), placing the "strange" tissue box, climbing in and out of the window well, the grate, suitcase, broken window, pineapple bowl, spoon, teabag and glass, etc) which would have resulted in the deposit of that DNA.
And I don't give a rat's patoot what ML says about it.

But their presence in the house does not make them guilty. You must have some PROOF they were involved in her murder. Otherwise the KNOWN RDI FACT is simply that they were in the house, sleeping presumably, while some unknown person killed JBR.

You seem to believe that someone has to be a resident in the house in which a victim was killed in order to be a murderer, and likewise anyone outside of the house was innocent. The house was not a fortress, so there was nothing to stop others from entering and leaving.

 

[Tadpole12]

Maybe to be sure he could account for his fibers or other material being on the body. Interesting he CLAIMED to have administered CRP on her in the basement, yet none of his DNA (from saliva) were found when swabs of her mouth were taken.
Remember, he was also told by Det. LA NOT to touch anything but to call her if he found something unusual. I'd say his daughter's corpse would fall into that category. Patsy had no problem throwing herself on this "ghastly" image. Then she also could try to explain her fibers being there. Unfortunately, two places were they were found REMAINED in the basement (tape and paint tote) and one place was covered with a blanket and lying against the floor, away from Patsy (the knot of the cord).

DeeDee,

CPR is a very intimate act. JR would have had to inspect the airway passage, tilt neck to make sure air passage was not restricted, and with JBR's head and neck in a rigid position how far could he have really proceeded. Initial breaths to see if chest rises ...... I can't see how he could have proceeded?

Puzzling, that he didn't commit to the resuscitation.

 

[Tadpole12]

Thanks SD.

I realize that PR was a clotheshorse, nothing wrong with that.

Just wondered who would describe it with such a harsh word. LHP.
Makes sense.

.



Never said there was.



.

Heyya SD

I realize that PR was a clotheshorse, nothing wrong with that. -TP

I was just stating my position on PR clotheshorse ways, being formerly, err, one myself.
Not trying to put words in your mouth, never really considered you would have a personal opinion on the issue. Good to know your stance.

 

[wonderllama]

But their presence in the house does not make them guilty. You must have some PROOF they were involved in her murder. Otherwise the KNOWN RDI FACT is simply that they were in the house, sleeping presumably, while some unknown person killed JBR.

You seem to believe that someone has to be a resident in the house in which a victim was killed in order to be a murderer, and likewise anyone outside of the house was innocent. The house was not a fortress, so there was nothing to stop others from entering and leaving.

Actually Murri,

You have just jumped from a known fact (they were home) to an unproven conclusion (that someone else came in and killed JBR) much in the same way you have just brushed off DeeDee's claim that they were home and therefore one of them killed her.

Do you not see how you guys (in this description at least) have both taken the same leap?

 

[MurriFlower]

Actually Murri,

You have just jumped from a known fact (they were home) to an unproven conclusion (that someone else came in and killed JBR) much in the same way you have just brushed off DeeDee's claim that they were home and therefore one of them killed her.

my bold

I am not putting forth an opinion at present, but simply trying to get finer details on someone else's opinion that "JR is guilty".

Do you not see how you guys (in this description at least) have both taken the same leap?

Not a leap, but a question.

 

[wonderllama]

Otherwise the KNOWN RDI FACT is simply that they were in the house, sleeping presumably, while some unknown person killed JBR.

Actually, the KNOWN RDI FACT would probably be

"They were in the house WHEN JBR was killed."
with a helping of
"And it has yet to be proven that anyone else was in the house"

Conclusion?
They are the best suspects available.


Logical steps there I'd suggest. no?

 

[MurriFlower]

Actually, the KNOWN RDI FACT would probably be

"They were in the house WHEN JBR was killed."
with a helping of
"And it has yet to be proven that anyone else was in the house"

Conclusion?
They are the best suspects available.


Logical steps there I'd suggest. no?

I'm wondering if (for DD) is it proximity that is the prime evidence pointing to guilt?

 

[Ames]

On the assumption John knew JBR was deceased, why would he bring her upstairs for her mother (and the rest of the Ramsey troop) to see? I would think most men would want to protect their wives from such a ghastly image.

That's the million dollar question. He has enough sense to know that you are NEVER supposed to contaminate a crime scene. EVERYBODY knows that. BUT...he contaminates the crime scene by untying, and unwrapping, and untaping....and then picking her up and carrying her upstairs for all to see. Fleet had already yelled..."WE FOUND HER!! CALL AN AMBULANCE!!" He could have waited for the authorities to come DOWN to where her body was...not bring it UP to them for God's sake. IMO...he was trying to contaminate the scene...so that his fibers could be explained away. Same reason that Patsy flung herself onto JB's dead body. (Problem with that was...she was covered up at the time).