If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Thank you @proust20 and @CloudedTruth

 

[proust20]

@CloudedTruth

TY for info about the call to the hardware store. It is interesting that so soon after the murder that a reporter would be interested in the source of the duct tape. The tape, which was never found, was part of the staging. What caused the reporter to inquire about it? Or perhaps, they weren't asking about the tape. I wonder if this reporter was local, national or tabloid.

 

[Officer Dibble]

It is suspicious, yes. From what I have read, the party on the 23rd for which DP was present, was a last minute thing. I suppose it's possible DP had booked a flight prior and then changed it to stay for the party, but given how hard (and expensive) it is to get a last minute flight on Christmas Eve, he went for standby. Why he apparently was not questioned about this is odd.

It is also my understanding that DP would have been expected to stay in Boulder while JR was on vacation, although one can make the argument that perhaps he was going to make it a quick trip back to Atlanta just to be with Nedra on Christmas day. But there seems not to have been plans to return to Boulder immediately, from what we know. And also adding to the suspiciousness is the fact that neither DP or Nedra went to Boulder once the news about their granddaughter broke. Both of PR's sisters went.

Of course what many have noted is that DP seemed to have hot footed it out of Boulder as soon as he could after the party on the 23rd.......during which there was the mysterious 911 call which remains not adequately explained, and reports of JBR sitting on the stairs crying and saying that she didn't feel pretty. Taken individually, perhaps all just innocent coincidences. But put together, definitely eyebrow raising and makes one wonder if something did happen that night that was a catalyst for everything else that then went down. There remain to this day questions about DP and possible abuse.

Do you think there was a head injury at the party?

 

[CloudedTruth]

Do you think there was a head injury at the party?

No, I do not. As described by the medical professionals, that blow knocked her unconscious. Had it happened at the party, that would imply a massive coverup by everyone present, which seems to me to be next to impossible that all those there (30ish people IIRC) would have willingly participated in a cover up and have kept silent all these years. The blow without strangulation would have killed her in a matter of hours. So the scenario of it happening at the party on the 23rd would have also meant she would not have been present at the White's for Christmas dinner on the 25th. There is pictorial evidence of her alive and seemingly unharmed on Christmas morning.

 

[CloudedTruth]

@CloudedTruth

TY for info about the call to the hardware store. It is interesting that so soon after the murder that a reporter would be interested in the source of the duct tape. The tape, which was never found, was part of the staging. What caused the reporter to inquire about it? Or perhaps, they weren't asking about the tape. I wonder if this reporter was local, national or tabloid.

Here's an article about the man and his wife:

James Rapp wasn't a reporter, he ran a company (just one of his business endeavors) that gathered information on high profile cases and sold the information to tabloids. He has been described as a "private investigator". The Rapps lived in Aurora, CO.

Investigator sentenced for misrepresentation

 

[proust20]

@CloudedTruth

If Rapp could get the Rs cell phone records and credit card bills, then LE must have them too. Kolar said that the R file is 60,000 pages.

 

[CloudedTruth]

@CloudedTruth

If Rapp could get the Rs cell phone records and credit card bills, then LE must have them too. Kolar said that the R file is 60,000 pages.

We do not know the extent of the cell phone records or credit card bills that Rapp was able to obtain, nor do we know when they were obtained, other than some specificity mentioned about the hardware store CC receipts in January. According to Steve Thomas, LE did not get hold of cell phone records until a year later, at which time much of December's records for JR's phone were mysteriously blank.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

We do not know the extent of the cell phone records or credit card bills that Rapp was able to obtain, nor do we know when they were obtained, other than some specificity mentioned about the hardware store CC receipts in January. According to Steve Thomas, LE did not get hold of cell phone records until a year later, at which time much of December's records for JR's phone were mysteriously blank.

This is an interesting topic. During my many researches into JB it has stated that JR phone records were wiped. The interesting thing about this fact is phone records are never completely wiped. So, if he isn’t guilty .. why wipe at all?

 

[CloudedTruth]

This is an interesting topic. During my many researches into JB it has stated that JR phone records were wiped. The interesting thing about this fact is phone records are never completely wiped. So, if he isn’t guilty .. why wipe at all?

It is an interesting topic! Meara kindly posted "Spade's Lawyering Theory" from Forums for Justice, and the issue of the "missing" phone records are discussed. It's a very interesting read with some suggesting the wiping of the records came from a very high place politically. Whether far fetched or not, given what we know about the powerful and political connections that were present in this case on the side of the R's, my opinion is that someone fairly highly placed may have gotten involved. Not only would it be interesting to know who was involved, but what quid quo pros were in place in exchange for wiping records. And yes.....this is just one issue that begs the question, if the R's are innocent why were there steps taken that can be seen as pretty obvious to obscure exactly what went down? A lot of smoke and mirrors in this case.

 

[proust20]

As I proposed previously, the Rs may have have phoned an attorney before Patsy's 911. A record of this call would destroy the timeline of the 'discovery' of the RN. ("We just got up.") Also, the Rs could have been warned then not to cooperate with BPD even before they arrived at the house. Although curiously, John handed over the notepad at once. while the pineapple and MagLite were in full view.

BR told the psychologist that he heard his Mom "going psycho" downstairs. Yet, he was supposed to be asleep. He added that he thought that this meant that JonBenet was missing. Why did this possibility occur to him?

 

[CloudedTruth]

As I proposed previously, the Rs may have have phoned an attorney before Patsy's 911. A record of this call would destroy the timeline of the 'discovery' of the RN. ("We just got up.") Also, the Rs could have been warned then not to cooperate with BPD even before they arrived at the house. Although curiously, John handed over the notepad at once. while the pineapple and MagLite were in full view.

BR told the psychologist that he heard his Mom "going psycho" downstairs. Yet, he was supposed to be asleep. He added that he thought that this meant that JonBenet was missing. Why did this possibility occur to him?

I would actually bet money that there were phone calls made that night which is why the phone records were wiped. They got advice on covering up but they still made some mistakes. Lucky for them they had friends in high places who ensured the tying of LE hands. They were protected.

IMO BR knew what went down.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

As I proposed previously, the Rs may have have phoned an attorney before Patsy's 911. A record of this call would destroy the timeline of the 'discovery' of the RN. ("We just got up.") Also, the Rs could have been warned then not to cooperate with BPD even before they arrived at the house. Although curiously, John handed over the notepad at once. while the pineapple and MagLite were in full view

Phone calls that were made, went higher up than an attorney; IMO. The phone records were probably wiped then. Great point that the calls made could destroy the R’s timeline of events. Yep, JR handed over PR notepad that was used to write the rn - does this point to deflection? The pineapple wasn’t hidden because it was not seen as being a point of contention. The Maglit was probably also left out on the counter as deflection or sloppiness. We cannot say that JR request for the golf clubs to be collected during the supermarket sweep, wasn’t unusual.

BR told the psychologist that he heard his Mom "going psycho" downstairs. Yet, he was supposed to be asleep. He added that he thought that this meant that JonBenet was missing. Why did this possibility occur to him?

Probably because he overheard the 911 call and he was overheard on the tape. “What did you find”? What an odd question!

 

[CloudedTruth]

Phone calls that were made, went higher up than an attorney; IMO. The phone records were probably wiped then. Great point that the calls made could destroy the R’s timeline of events. Yep, JR handed over PR notepad that was used to write the rn - does this point to deflection? The pineapple wasn’t hidden because it was not seen as being a point of contention. The Maglit was probably also left out on the counter as deflection or sloppiness. We cannot say that JR request for the golf clubs to be collected during the supermarket sweep, wasn’t unusual.


Probably because he overheard the 911 call and he was overheard on the tape. “What did you find”? What an odd question!

Yes. I think JR called Mike Bynum that night and Mike not only advised what to do to begin a cover up, but probably then made calls of his own to get things in motion. Bynum was / is well connected and it was he who hired the also well connected and high priced attorneys who started working on the case by EOD on the 26th. Part of the coverup was ensuring those phone records never got into the hands of LE or saw the light of day. We of course do not know how quickly they were wiped, but the DA's office gave them plenty of time by not approving subpoena requests for a year.

The Maglite and the pineapple were mistakes by the R's. The pineapple destroyed their timeline and the denial of owning the Maglite was disputed by JAR. And wiped of fingerprints? Why? An intruder would never have wiped it and left it.

We know from BR's own account that he got up after going to bed that night (which PR & JR claimed not to have known), and we also know that he was most likely awake that morning (denied by PR & JR) because his voice was discovered on the tape. He knows far more than he has ever admitted IMO, and the little glimpses that have come out from him seem to confirm that. Given the timeline that the pineapple revealed, both he and JBR were awake far later than what PR & JR have claimed. Amazing that BR didn't run into "the intruder" while he was prowling around the house that night......

 

[DeDee]

By luck, I ran across some podcasts on YouTube by True Crime Garage. The 3 podcasts posted about JonBenet about 5 months ago. They're entitled JonBenet: Poems &

There were two poems given to attorney Lee Hill many years ago, for those who remember his part in the saga. Then, Lee shared the envelope containing the poems that Lou Smit allegedly wanted desperately. The tantalizing poems are read during the 3 podcasts.

Be nice to have transcripts of the poems.
MOO

 

[CloudedTruth]

Are these the poems you are referring to?

The Two Poems - ZACH THE GREAT PRETENDER and THE MANCHURIAN DOLL

There were two poems that were sent to a certain person close to the case quite early on. Their existence was kept a close secret by this person and investigators they shared them with, so there were not many people who knew about the poems at all. Ollie Gray was one of the investigators who had...

jonbenetramseymurder.discussion.community

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The Maglite and the pineapple were mistakes by the R's. The pineapple destroyed their timeline and the denial of owning the Maglite was disputed by JAR. And wiped of fingerprints? Why? An intruder would never have wiped it and left it.

Excellent point about the pineapple. The owning of the Maglite was disputed by PR stating “JAR had given JR one like that as a gift”. Although the maglite was dusted for fingerprints they couldn’t lift anything because of the torches etched diamond pattern. The switch is rubber so I have never heard about any further testing. If anything it would have been the batteries that were wiped and they also had no fingerprints. Yes indeed, why? There are way too many shadows in this case for us to solve. Although accordingly the true bills set forth; point to guilt.

We know from BR's own account that he got up after going to bed that night (which PR & JR claimed not to have known), and we also know that he was most likely awake that morning (denied by PR & JR) because his voice was discovered on the tape. He knows far more than he has ever admitted IMO, and the little glimpses that have come out from him seem to confirm that. Given the timeline that the pineapple revealed, both he and JBR were awake far later than what PR & JR have claimed. Amazing that BR didn't run into "the intruder" while he was prowling around the house that night......

Yes, he was up late at night ‘knocking out’ a Christmas toy. I do believe he admitted far too much to Dr. Bernhardt. And also to his best bud DS before the autopsy results were released. How did he know about the blow to the head and the strangulation? Did he do it or did he witness it?

 

[CloudedTruth]

Excellent point about the pineapple. The owning of the Maglite was disputed by PR stating “JAR had given JR one like that as a gift”. Although the maglite was dusted for fingerprints they couldn’t lift anything because of the torches etched diamond pattern. The switch is rubber so I have never heard about any further testing. If anything it would have been the batteries that were wiped and they also had no fingerprints. Yes indeed, why? There are way too many shadows in this case for us to solve. Although accordingly the true bills set forth; point to guilt.


Yes, he was up late at night ‘knocking out’ a Christmas toy. I do believe he admitted far too much to Dr. Bernhardt. And also to his best bud DS before the autopsy results were released. How did he know about the blow to the head and the strangulation? Did he do it or did he witness it?

I have two of the same Maglite flashlights. The diamond pattern you are referring to is about a 6 inch portion in the middle of the handle. The rest of the flashlight handle, head and end (where one takes out the batteries) are smooth. Anyone taking out or adding batteries would have left fingerprints behind on that portion of the flashlight (unless they were wearing gloves), and yet nothing found anywhere on the flashlight or the batteries, which is an indication it was wiped.

Yes, JR said that he stayed up with BR for a little bit putting together the toy, and then BR went to bed. BR later admitted in the infamous Dr. Phil interview that after everyone was supposedly in bed, he got out of bed and snuck back downstairs to play some more with his new toy(s).

 

[Hannah_567]

The lack of fingerprints on the smooth portions of the flashlights and batteries is indeed suspicious and suggests they may have been wiped clean. The detail about BR admitting to sneaking back downstairs after everyone went to bed to play with his new toys is also quite telling. It raises questions about his activities and motivations during that timeframe when the crime likely occurred... :think:

 

[Swirlz]

From Arndt's 2000 deposition:

A. The politics involved people in supervisory positions able to see black and white and not able to see anything that wasn't tangible. And if a person's opinion on the investigative team was in the minority, that opinion was dismissed.

Q. Does that include your opinions?

A. It included mine, all of the Department of Social Services, including some other people.

[..]

Q. And what opinions are you referring to that were material to the investigation?

A. Incest. Naming the Ramseys as suspects.

Q. This is incest between John Ramsey and JonBenet?

A. Yes

 

[Rain on my Parade]

have two of the same Maglite flashlights. The diamond pattern you are referring to is about a 6 inch portion in the middle of the handle. The rest of the flashlight handle, head and end (where one takes out the batteries) are smooth. Anyone taking out or adding batteries would have left fingerprints behind on that portion of the flashlight (unless they were wearing gloves), and yet nothing found anywhere on the flashlight or the batteries, which is an indication it was wiped.

You are correct. I don’t know what I was thinking? I also have one. You turn the head of it too turn on/off, dim/brighten; therefore prints would have been left behind (as well as the battery chamber). JR’s print’s aren’t reported anywhere. Not even on the rn pad he handed to police. But he did find JB … rushed directly to her. Tried to fly out of state immediately before leaving the house with JB left behind on the floor underneath the Christmas tree. She sat alone until 8:30 that night. He also directed PP to get his golf clubs and BR’s airplane hanging by the cord looked exact to the one used in the crime? This took place on the 28th.

Yes, JR said that he stayed up with BR for a little bit putting together the toy, and then BR went to bed. BR later admitted in the infamous Dr. Phil interview that after everyone was supposedly in bed, he got out of bed and snuck back downstairs to play some more with his new toy(s).

And the neighbor saw flickering lights coming from the kitchen area that night. Wonder if those legos in the wine cellar were part of the toy(s)?