IL IL - Dermot Kelly, 16, Oglesby, Jan 1972

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Dermot's Nameus Page Report:

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6257/3

According to the report:

Dental information is entered
DNA has been submitted but is not complete
No fingerprints available
Data was entered in 2010 and does NOT contain the information from Dan's article


Satch
 
Well, that's kind of spooky. It's this very UID who brought me to WS and to this thread. I've kept that page open in a second browser window while reading carefully through the entire thread. My thoughts:

Having lost both my parents, I would place very little significance on Dermot not being listed as a survivor on his father's obit. It's my experience that the task of preparing the obit falls on the surviving family members, not on the deceased himself. The fact that Dermot was included in his mother's obit was probably a final act of lovingkindness by her children, acknowledging the fact that Mom never gave up hope.

The rifle: I saw a couple of posters apparently thinking the rifle and the body should have been found together. Common sense tells me that a slender metal object would quickly drop out of the current and sink to the bottom of the river. A body would have much larger mass and a higher flotation factor and would be carried downstream by the current, so I would not expect them to be found together. Very odd that the telescopic sight was missing; did Dermot remove it ahead of time? Was it ever absolutely confirmed that this was in fact Dermot's rifle?

Social security number: I'm six years younger than Dermot. Back then, babies were not generally assigned SSNs, not until it became required to list dependents' SSNs on income tax returns, which happened decades later. I didn't get my SSN until age 15, when I took my first part-time job. Dermot may not have had an SSN before he disappeared.

A possible scenario connecting Dermot to this UID, assuming he staged his disappearance: Hitchhiking away from Oglesby, stopping to work odd jobs to earn money, winding up in St. Louis by June, where he worked briefly at Mallinckrodt, then moving on toward I-40 (a direct route and easy hitching to California), where he met with an unfortunate accident in Custer County, OK.

No wallet was found with this UID but, with the other items found on the body, it seems the mystery of his identity could have been cleared up at the time with a few phone calls to St. Louis. Seems strange to me. Also strange is that the profile on the Doe Network states this person was released from jail in St. Louis one day prior to the accident, but I don't see this info on any other website listing this UID. Where would this info come from? A bail receipt? With no name? Again, it seems like a quick phone call to St. Louis could have ID'd this young man.

Dermot's height, hair color, and eye color don't quite match with this UID. I don't remember any mention of whether Dermot had a driver's license. If not, his 6-foot height might have been a guesstimate by the family or, this info did come from his DL, he could have slightly exaggerated his height if self-reporting or he could have been wearing a bit of heel when being measured; a 2" heel on a boot would put a 5'9" inch person that much closer to six feet tall. As for the blonde hair, he doesn't look very blonde to me in the photo, and his eye color could have been misremembered by the family. I couldn't say for sure what color my brother's eyes are; I would guess blue.

Anyway, a connection to this UID seems within the realm of possibility, albeit remote. I wish there were a DNA profile available for the UID, but the body would have to be exhumed to get one. There are fingerprints available; is there any record of Dermot's fingerprints?

All of Dermot's belonging's and identification were left behind. This included his wallet, driver's license, and favorite personal possessions. For several years, I have wanted to know what his favorite personal possessions were! Would like to reflect on them as a tribute to what Dermot loved in his memory!

Did Dermot keep a diary or journal about his life that was ever found as evidence? Oh! To be able to have read that would have been both sad and fascinating into the incredible journey and feelings of this remarkable empathetic, troubled young man.

Satch
 
Yes,

That is a fast time frame, to only be gone about 90 minutes and the police called. Even more troubling, why would you let a "despondent troubled teen" who "you feared for his welfare," leave the house with a gun?

A follow up article, published about three years later, said that three days before Dermot left he told his parents, "I am going to make a new life on my own and do it completely on my own." He said nothing further. His parents said nothing. The only know communication that his father said three days later was "Wear Warm Boots." I think that Dermot's statement about wanting to make a new life on his own was a way to distance himself from the family. It could have been Dermot's "oral suicide note." Maybe he was sending out a message to see how his parents reacted. They said nothing!

It seems like a concerned parent would have said something. I think Dermot faced so much negativity from his family when he spoke about his "new life" that people thought, "Oh he's introverted and doesn't talk much." Well, maybe Dermot got fed-up with all the negativity and decided why start communicating if it leads to conflicts that are never going to get resolved if I am a part of this family?

The only reasons that I can think of with the quick call to police:

If it was true that Dermot was gay, and back in the early 70's, gay people were considered mentally ill, in society.

The father's strong influence with LE as an attorney to get LE on the case right away. (Most jurisdictions would not even think of begining a search until 72 hours had passed.)

For years, Dermot's Dad would travel around the country, or so he claimed with posters. People would sometimes say that they found somebody who looks like him, but noone has ever actually seen him.

It's also strange that reports show the family new how much money had on him, This was not a school day, where Dermot would take lunch money, so why would they know that? Maybe if someone wanted to borrow money, but when your child leaves for a short period of time. I find it odd that the family would know how much money Dermot had.

Notice that Dermot saying "He's going to go target shooting." is very vague. It allows him to go many places, as opposed to saying. "I'm going to Mike's house, or something." Some people who discount the suicide theory ask, "Why would Dermot say where he was going if his plan was to kill himself?" Could the family have had a strict rule where when you leave the house, you say where you are going? I know that growing up, we did.

Or could this have been a terrible accident? Did Dermot have shooting targets in his pocket when he left? It was very slippery that day and Dermot was not at all dressed for the bone-chilling weather? Was he oblivious to the cold even before potential hypothermia could have occurred? What was he shooting at? Did he slip and fall in the water and the current whisked him away? Did his gun fall in the water and Dermot not realizing how deep the water was, tried to get it, and the ice broke off from under him?

Note this is not some little creek or stream. The Vermillion River and Illinois River are used quite often for Whitewater Rafting. If you Google them on you tube, it can be seen how dangerous they are. Dermot would have needed more than just a change of clothes to survive out there. He would have to get to warm place, have food and lodging planned? Someone to pick him up. We would have really liked to have seen evidence of the Kelly's phone records or any of Dermot's friends to whom Dermot may have confided his plans to run away or talk of suicide.

Regardless of whether this was a suicide, drowning, or a staged disappearance I believed that Dermot left home because he had no other choice. He felt that his dreams were being squashed by his families high expectations. I believe Dermot left to save his family "the shame" of having to associate with him. I think Dermot saw himself as "The Black Sheep of the family." I have also considered due to his Dad's temperament, that he may have been abusive to Dermot. Every time I find out more information about his father in little bits and pieces, everything is a sharp contradiction to what Dermot wanted out of life. I had only wished Dermot could have waited two years and gotten a place of his own where he could call his own shots and do his own thing, a little studio flat with his records, music, writings, and books! He would have loved that!

Satch

BBM. Actually, the father did say something...Imagine Dermot taking a chance, saying he wanted to start over to test his parents or seek validation from his family (especially if we go with the conversion therapy theory)...then his father saying "Wear warm boots" in a sarcastic, patronizing tone. Kind of like when we were kids, "Here's a quarter, call someone who cares". The issue with what we read in papers, is a seemingly benign or caring statement can actually be something else without the context, tone, or manner it was used. Passive-Agressive when said a certain way to a child who wants to run away...take a long walk off a short pier or "wear warm boots". Could leaving the boots there and starting a new life be the final defiance that got lost in the whole mess. Is that not symbolic in itself? Is there a deeper meaning? I still do not think he went in the river...But, you know my thoughts.
 
I wonder if Dermot actually left his house (alive) on Jan 30, 1972.

Hi Sulaimth,

In reference to your quote above, what do you mean? I agree with you that there is a possibility that Dermot leaped into the river. My fear is that he shot himself at the river's edge, than fell into the water.

Satch

That is a good point. What if Dermot ended his life and due to the time period understanding of suicidal thoughts, dad running for office, and/or Catholic beliefs, the father covered up an accident or Dermot's suicide. This may have been discussed before or along these lines in earlier posts.
 
From the Doe Network, regarding removal of Dermot Kelly's case file:

(quote) ... I wanted to let you know that we previously had the case posted on our website until we were informed by law enforcement that they would no longer be taking tips or possible matches for his case and therefore the case was removed.

Anna Hollis, Ph.D.,
Family/Community Liaison,
www.doenetwork.org ... (unquote)
 
That is a good point. What if Dermot ended his life and due to the time period understanding of suicidal thoughts, dad running for office, and/or Catholic beliefs, the father covered up an accident or Dermot's suicide. This may have been discussed before or along these lines in earlier posts.

Very true,

I have negative feelings about Dermot's dad. My take is that "Ward Cleaver or Mike Brady, he's not." IMO, Kevin Kelly would cover up, or at least attempt to cover up anything that puts the family name in a bad light. Possible Suicide, even a drowning? Mr. Kelly thinking to himself. "Can't have my family reputation ruined." The same reason why the real explanation for Dermot's weeks of hospitalization int he Fall of 1971, hospitalization may never be known, I maintain that Dermot's Dad saw his son as "non-conformity," rebelling against the ultra-strict views insisted by his father. Mr. Kelly felt that so many things Dermot did or believed, it shamed the family. Or at least it shamed Kevin Kelly. Father and son had many barriers against each other. A polarization that was so strong and painful that Dermot had to leave to escape his father's shame, and his father's wrath.

However, the attorney in Mr. Kelly, is still compelled to search for answers and to save his reputation, he has to mask his concern of Dermot's for the public. Many lawyers are good at twisting things to their or their clients advantage that often has nothing to do with the real truth. That "Father's Take, a Search of Anguish" with Mr. Kelly going out and traveling thousands and thousands of miles for twenty years. I have trouble believing that. If Dermot say that article, he'd just be shaking his head and going "yea right." Dermot would say, "Dad's just saying this because he can't control my life any more." In my view, Dermot's questions of many in a rebuttle to that "Father's Anguish" article would be, "Where was all this love, and compassion that Dad alleges in this article for sixteen years when I was in that house?

Mr. Kelly could mask the overly concerned father. Suppose he really did travel around the country looking for Dermot, but he spreads out the time over 20 years. You know, hypothetically he searches around Illinois in 1972-1973, he takes one of the kids along to the West Coast say California in 1977, goes to Florida in 1983, back and forth to the East West and Central states maybe every couple of years until 1992 when he has Dermot legally declared dead.

I don't see the journey of a man who spent night and day looking for his son, but it does raise some beliefs about what Kevin alleges he did during the twenty years after Dermot left home.

1.) It pacifies his wife Asta and Dermot's siblings that he is "doing something." to help find Dermot, not out of love, but out of duty and discipline, commitment to family, It makes Kevin "look good."

2.) The removal of the river evidence from many published reports, shows that the family did not want to discuss suicide as a possible cause of Dermot's likely death. The possibility of Dermot's staging his disappearance reduces the pain of a possible suicide or drowing death. Allowing Asta and her children the ability to think that Dermot found peace and love by leaving. I think that Asta's side of the family believing that Dermot sought freedom by escaping the pain of his home life, brings comfort to them.

3.) I read that one of Dermot's sisters at one time refused to submit DNA. The family does not want negative closure in this case. I think deep down, they think as I do that Dermot's Dad's temperament and strong demands, pushed Dermot into leaving.

4.) Maybe Kevin even blamed "The Boy" (using his words) up until his 1993 death. Keven might say or think, "Well, I didn't walk out the door years ago and hurt my family not knowing where I went and never came back. "I gave Dermot everything to be successful and prosperous" and leaving is the thanks the boy gives our family?"

The reality I think is that Kevin Kelly gave Dermot ultimatums as to how he expected Dermot to benefit. There was very little done in terms of asking Dermot, or listening to Dermot asking him what he wanted out of life. It has to be about what Dermot loves and values, NOT about the things that Kevin Kelly insisted Dermot love and value.

Not including your missing son on your obituary, or obviously, someone who wrote Kevin's obituary, sought to see that Dermot was not mentioned. That evidence shows such a strained and pained relationship that extended for both Dermot and his father, right up till his father's death and for Dermot the last time he was seen alive on January 30, 1972. No matter how many "Mountains" Keven climbed, rivers he crossed, or Indian Guides he used, or psychics he hired, you don't exclude your missing son from your own obituary, unless the pain and resentment towards your missing son that was there for decades never left.

In some ways, I think Dermot's a hero! He left to escape the pain of his father's authority and in his question for peace, helping others, and searching for love, Dermot himself, doesn't have to worry about being anxious, pained, or hurt anymore. He sought and found freedom!

Satch
 
From the Doe Network, regarding removal of Dermot Kelly's case file:

(quote) ... I wanted to let you know that we previously had the case posted on our website until we were informed by law enforcement that they would no longer be taking tips or possible matches for his case and therefore the case was removed.

Anna Hollis, Ph.D.,
Family/Community Liaison,
www.doenetwork.org ... (unquote)

The big question here. Why would LE no longer be taking tips or matches for Dermot? Since his whereabouts remain unknown, and no remains have ever turned up indicated that he is dead, why stop investigating?

Satch
 
BBM. Actually, the father did say something...Imagine Dermot taking a chance, saying he wanted to start over to test his parents or seek validation from his family (especially if we go with the conversion therapy theory)...then his father saying "Wear warm boots" in a sarcastic, patronizing tone. Kind of like when we were kids, "Here's a quarter, call someone who cares". The issue with what we read in papers, is a seemingly benign or caring statement can actually be something else without the context, tone, or manner it was used. Passive-Agressive when said a certain way to a child who wants to run away...take a long walk off a short pier or "wear warm boots". Could leaving the boots there and starting a new life be the final defiance that got lost in the whole mess. Is that not symbolic in itself? Is there a deeper meaning? I still do not think he went in the river...But, you know my thoughts.

I just don't think Dermot's parents were good at reading between the lines. That is an OUTSTANDING point! Dermot out on a quest to prove to his parents that yes, he could and would go out on his own. Dermot and his Dad could have words that day, building up for a long time. Dermot looking for a last ditch effort to see how "Dear Old Dad" (sarcasm intended) responds. Dermot's Dad's comment, "Wear warm boots." is like Dad saying, "Don't slam the door on your way out. You think you can do better than the life we gave you? Fine! Now, get out!"

I think that's the kind of pain that Dermot faced almost, if not every day in that house.

Satch
 
I wonder if Dermot actually left his house (alive) on Jan 30, 1972.






Hi Sulaimth,

In reference to your quote above, what do you mean? I agree with you that there is a possibility that Dermot leaped into the river. My fear is that he shot himself at the river's edge, than fell into the water.

Satch

I wonder if Dermot was accidently killed in a fight in his house. The tracks in the snow staged. If something bad happened in that house, and Dermot's dad being a lawyer, I doubt LE would not be suspicious of anything other than Dermot leaving home or committing suicide. (My ex-FIL was a judge.) You have stated a few times in this thread that Dermot's father had a bad temper. And if Dermot was gay, I can see how a certain kind of person could bully/hit him, especially way back when. (Not necessarily pointing the finger at the dad.)

I just got a hinky feeling after reading the news articles about the long trips the father took to try to find him and Dermot's last words to him. I probably should not read/watch so many crime stories!
 
I wonder if Dermot actually left his house (alive) on Jan 30, 1972.








I wonder if Dermot was accidentally killed in a fight in his house. The tracks in the snow staged. If something bad happened in that house, and Dermot's dad being a lawyer, I doubt LE would not be suspicious of anything other than Dermot leaving home or committing suicide. (My ex-FIL was a judge.) You have stated a few times in this thread that Dermot's father had a bad temper. And if Dermot was gay, I can see how a certain kind of person could bully/hit him, especially way back when. (Not necessarily pointing the finger at the dad.)

I just got a hinky feeling after reading the news articles about the long trips the father took to try to find him and Dermot's last words to him. I probably should not read/watch so many crime stories!

Interesting!

We know of Dermot's Dad's last words to Dermot, "Wear warm boots." We don't know Dermot's last words before he left the house. Yet another reason that just draws people into this case! It is both fascinating and painfully sad. I don't think Dermot was killed in the house. However, I do think it is very likely that he could have been abused by his father. They could have had fights, easily. But I don't really see Dermot as a "fighting type of guy." In conflict, his insides I think just reached the breaking point where he could not live in that home anymore. When you think about it, wherever Dermot was, home, school, church, all of these things reinforced the belief systems to which Dermot had so much difficulty assimilating to that lifestyle.

And I think Dermot stayed for a lot longer than other people might have stayed because I think he really tried to please his family, and didn't want to hurt others by leaving until he had no choice. I often wondered how he related to his siblings? Any information on Dermot's relationship with his Mother would be interesting as well. How much could she have related to Dermot's quests for the things he loved? And all of the things he loved in music, reading, writing, philosophy, soul-seeking, freedom, show an inner-peace within Dermot. A quest for happiness and to help others.

However, when Dermot WASN'T involved in a favorite peace-seeking activity that he loved, or else sleeping, he was always in a conflict between home, school and church values, and the different kind of life he wanted. Trying to conform to a strict lifestyle was too stressful for Dermot.

I DO NOT want to imply the Kelly parents as bad people. The father's documented temper is a bad thing, its a terrible thing for anybody to have to deal with that. I can also see why Dermot's parents would be so resistant to change, because they raised four other seemingly very successful and respectable kids. Dermot, tried so hard, but just couldn't fit into family expectations. The generation gaps between Dermot and his parents, old enough literally to be his grandparents, there wasn't any opportunity for Dermot to experience the kind of life choices that he wanted.

The haunting thing about Dermot's case, well there are many things, but I think trying to speak from Dermot's perspective as to one of the reasons why he left. There really aren't a lot of opportunities for minor children and teens to flee painful home lives. I think, if Dermot was around today, he might ask, "Where are the services and support groups for kids who want to start a new life because of pain in the home, for which there is no resolution by staying at home?" What about the rights of children and teens to live the life and pursue their dreams, but there are such polarized views from the parents?"

Kids who are troubled like this and there is no resolution other than waiting for them to turn 18 and legally leave home. I think Dermot would have liked to have seen some middle-ground so that parents and kids can work together to resolve their differences. That's why, I always think that Dermot would have been such an AWESOME counselor , mentor, teacher, and friend. Too sensitive and loving of a man to envision something bad happening to him! Another powerful reason why especially the Mother's side of the family would want any mention of suicide off the record.

Satch
 
Originally Posted by Sulamith
I wonder if Dermot actually left his house (alive) on Jan 30, 1972.








I wonder if Dermot was accidentally killed in a fight in his house. The tracks in the snow staged. If something bad happened in that house, and Dermot's dad being a lawyer, I doubt LE would not be suspicious of anything other than Dermot leaving home or committing suicide. (My ex-FIL was a judge.) You have stated a few times in this thread that Dermot's father had a bad temper. And if Dermot was gay, I can see how a certain kind of person could bully/hit him, especially way back when. (Not necessarily pointing the finger at the dad.)

I just got a hinky feeling after reading the news articles about the long trips the father took to try to find him and Dermot's last words to him.
I probably should not read/watch so many crime stories!






Interesting!

We know of Dermot's Dad's last words to Dermot, "Wear warm boots." We don't know Dermot's last words before he left the house. Yet another reason that just draws people into this case! It is both fascinating and painfully sad. I don't think Dermot was killed in the house. However, I do think it is very likely that he could have been abused by his father. They could have had fights, easily. But I don't really see Dermot as a "fighting type of guy." In conflict, his insides I think just reached the breaking point where he could not live in that home anymore. When you think about it, wherever Dermot was, home, school, church, all of these things reinforced the belief systems to which Dermot had so much difficulty assimilating to that lifestyle.

And I think Dermot stayed for a lot longer than other people might have stayed because I think he really tried to please his family, and didn't want to hurt others by leaving until he had no choice. I often wondered how he related to his siblings? Any information on Dermot's relationship with his Mother would be interesting as well. How much could she have related to Dermot's quests for the things he loved? And all of the things he loved in music, reading, writing, philosophy, soul-seeking, freedom, show an inner-peace within Dermot. A quest for happiness and to help others.

However, when Dermot WASN'T involved in a favorite peace-seeking activity that he loved, or else sleeping, he was always in a conflict between home, school and church values, and the different kind of life he wanted. Trying to conform to a strict lifestyle was too stressful for Dermot.

I DO NOT want to imply the Kelly parents as bad people. The father's documented temper is a bad thing, its a terrible thing for anybody to have to deal with that. I can also see why Dermot's parents would be so resistant to change, because they raised four other seemingly very successful and respectable kids. Dermot, tried so hard, but just couldn't fit into family expectations. The generation gaps between Dermot and his parents, old enough literally to be his grandparents, there wasn't any opportunity for Dermot to experience the kind of life choices that he wanted.

The haunting thing about Dermot's case, well there are many things, but I think trying to speak from Dermot's perspective as to one of the reasons why he left. There really aren't a lot of opportunities for minor children and teens to flee painful home lives. I think, if Dermot was around today, he might ask, "Where are the services and support groups for kids who want to start a new life because of pain in the home, for which there is no resolution by staying at home?" What about the rights of children and teens to live the life and pursue their dreams, but there are such polarized views from the parents?"

Kids who are troubled like this and there is no resolution other than waiting for them to turn 18 and legally leave home. I think Dermot would have liked to have seen some middle-ground so that parents and kids can work together to resolve their differences. That's why, I always think that Dermot would have been such an AWESOME counselor , mentor, teacher, and friend. Too sensitive and loving of a man to envision something bad happening to him! Another powerful reason why especially the Mother's side of the family would want any mention of suicide off the record.

Satch

BBM I Bolded my own quote! I misspoke when I said that I got a hinky feeling after reading Dermot's last words to his father. I was thinking about what was on Dermot's missing person flyer: "The family also distributed missing person posters, on which they wrote Dermot "wanted to make a life of his own and do it on his own." http://mywebtimes.com/archives/ottawa/display.php?id=449448

I got a hinky feeling when I read that quote on his flyer. A red herring maybe? Just thought that was a strange think to put on a flyer.

I was in high school in 1972. Heard second hand stories of young people dropping out of school and going to Alaska, making big money there, disappearing there.

RE: Dermont's father's temper being documented. Did you also say in one of your previous posts that he possible hit a partner of his? Can you say where you got to documented info the bad temper from?
 
RE: Dermont's father's temper being documented. Did you also say in one of your previous posts that he possible hit a partner of his? Can you say where you got to documented info the bad temper from?

I contacted a writer who researched Dermot's case. He said that a retired LE official told him that Dermot's Dad was hot-tempered and once attacked one of his law partners. I don't want to name names, because so much information already seems to be closing on this case, Doe Network's site managers for example say that LE told them they aren't taking any more leads or matches for Dermot's case. My interest now, is why would LE close the case or not want more information? I hope that Charlie Project keeps the case alive and so should Websleuths! Dermot's case is one of the saddest and most powerful for me. I really hope through talking about the case that maybe someone who knew Dermot will post if they are willing to share insight on the case.

My hopes are for Dermot to be remembered in a positive way! One of the things that drove me to seek more information about Dermot's case was when Doe Network had the case in the database all it said was:

"Dermot Kelly walked out of his home on January 30, 1972 and never returned. It is unknown where he may be."

For some reason, I kept looking at that date, and Dermot's seemingly sad face in that picture. The ONLY picture of him I have ever seen. And I just wanted to know more about Dermot and his family because two small lines , not even a paragraph, doesn't give much help to find out what happened to missing people. No disrespect to Doe Network of course, maybe that's all they had for Dermot at the time, It's those cases, where initially almost nothing is known that prompted me to find out what happened to Dermot and why.

When the additional information was found and posted in this thread, I really felt some comfort that there are people out there who care about Dermot and want to know what happened to him, and what drove Dermot to leave?

This case is going to stick with me even if we find out what really happened!

Satch
 
Why would LE not want to take any info on the case or check into any potential matches? Maybe they have an idea about what happened? Or maybe they have just decided to conclude that he drowned and leave it at that. Do you know if they are trying to officially close the case?
 
Why would LE not want to take any info on the case or check into any potential matches? Maybe they have an idea about what happened? Or maybe they have just decided to conclude that he drowned and leave it at that. Do you know if they are trying to officially close the case?

It would be interesting to hear what Doe Networks admininstration thinks or knows about the case. Like I said, I sure hope they haven't given up on the case! There are cases DECADES older than Dermot's that I am sure are on the system. Here at WS we study cases that are pre-1960's. And there have been missing people who have been found, or sadly who's remains have been located that are older than Dermot's case.

There are some positives in this case at least IMO:

1.) One is that there is (or was) a case file available and some good information from the published content we have, and the efforts put forth by the authors and us! Many cases from the 70's and back don't even have the original case-files anymore. At least we have some good tangible things to keep the case ongoing here at WS, even if what Doe Network claims that LE isn't taking new leads. At least here at WS we can still talk about it and find out information. Charlie Project still has their data for Dermot open.

2.) If Dermot found freedom, or even passed away, at least he is at peace and cant be hurt or stressed anymore by the likely issues that made him leave in the first place. Very often, the quest for LE is to work to reunite the missing with their loved ones. However, if there is so much conflict and pain that the missing person has experienced, some people are just better off on their own.

3.) Suppose Dermot was found alive. Given what we know about the family structure, flash back to any time when both parents were living for my example. Looking at this from Dermot's view and his rights, what would he gain by moving back home, or if he had never left? (At least till legal age of 18.) He's got to go through two more years of rules, regulations, and Dad's conformity.

He's stuck in that house with four other kids, he has no privacy. What's going to change in his home and school life under his parent's roof to give him a positive experience for the life he wanted? I think Dermot's family would be thrilled at his return, but after a couple of weeks, the same set of circumstances that caused Dermot to leave would come back. I think Dermot's leaving seriously could have saved the poor guy from a nervous breakdown.

Satch
 
From the Doe Network, regarding removal of Dermot Kelly's case file:

(quote) ... I wanted to let you know that we previously had the case posted on our website until we were informed by law enforcement that they would no longer be taking tips or possible matches for his case and therefore the case was removed.

Anna Hollis, Ph.D.,
Family/Community Liaison,
www.doenetwork.org ... (unquote)

I too would like to know why LE were no longer taking tips or seeking a match? Without this case being solved this is inexcusable.
 
I too would like to know why LE were no longer taking tips or seeking a match? Without this case being solved this is inexcusable.

I agree Still Seek Answers 100%!

Dermot deserves accolades of better treatment than this! Closing the case like this is not right to those who care about him, love him, and seek closure. The evidence we have in this case is about Dermot seeking peace, love, and freedom, and whether he did, or died trying, that's not right to close the door in his face like that. He probably had more than enough doors slammed in his face living at home anyway, and for LE not to care. This is sad and wrong!

Dermot we know was upset about inequalities and hypocrisy in society. It took great strength, courage, and passion for Dermot to leave his home and family in search of a better life. As painful as not knowing what happened to him will stick in my mind for the rest of my life, my suspicions that are worse is that LE just sees an old case file. Just old papers and files taking up space with no leads for probably decades and they just say, "He drowned or committed suicide." Do they believe Dermot's case is too old and without new evidence they don't want to study it anymore? I myself don't want negative closure in this case. I can empathize with how Dermot's mother Asta felt in listing Dermot as a survivor. LE should abide by the wishes that carried her till she passed away and help her children and grandchildren find some closure and peace in what really happened to Dermot.

Satch
 
I got a hinky feeling when I read that quote on his flyer. A red herring maybe? Just thought that was a strange think to put on a flyer.

I was in high school in 1972. Heard second hand stories of young people dropping out of school and going to Alaska, making big money there, disappearing there.

RE: Dermont's father's temper being documented. Did you also say in one of your previous posts that he possible hit a partner of his? Can you say where you got to documented info the bad temper from?

BBM. Any chance Dermot was simply institutionalized and placed in a mental institution? We have gone over the potential gay aspect, the not so "Leave it to Beaver" family, etc. Is there any chance this was in fact staged and Dermot was institutionalized? As we know, mental health issues were not well understood at the time. Often in cases of "gayness" or depression the blame was placed on the mother's lack of nurturing skills, etc.

Why would LE not want to take any info on the case or check into any potential matches? Maybe they have an idea about what happened? Or maybe they have just decided to conclude that he drowned and leave it at that. Do you know if they are trying to officially close the case?

Also...when we say "Case is closed"...If the family knows what happened, i.e. institutionalized and died there they do not want the case open, because they know what happened to him. Seriously, if the other children "knew" what happened to Dermot and the dad was abusive or Dermot killed himself and the scene was staged, once dear old dad died they would have come forward. If it was something like Dermot was "crazy" placed somewhere and died of what people usually died of in mental facilities (untreated medical stuff or violence) the family would not want to revisit the painful issue. ?
 
BBM. Any chance Dermot was simply institutionalized and placed in a mental institution? We have gone over the potential gay aspect, the not so "Leave it to Beaver" family, etc. Is there any chance this was in fact staged and Dermot was institutionalized? As we know, mental health issues were not well understood at the time. Often in cases of "gayness" or depression the blame was placed on the mother's lack of nurturing skills, etc.



Also...when we say "Case is closed"...If the family knows what happened, i.e. institutionalized and died there they do not want the case open, because they know what happened to him. Seriously, if the other children "knew" what happened to Dermot and the dad was abusive or Dermot killed himself and the scene was staged, once dear old dad died they would have come forward. If it was something like Dermot was "crazy" placed somewhere and died of what people usually died of in mental facilities (untreated medical stuff or violence) the family would not want to revisit the painful issue. ?

In my view, I think the family may not want to visit suicide as a possible issue because that would bring about pain in itself that they feel could never be repaired. I think sadly that Dermot died in the river that day, and that his death was probably a suicide. The family negative dynamics working against what Dermot wanted out of life are so strong that I think it is the most likely scenario. The Mother's side of the family at least focused on the things Dermot loved so much, The Hippie Movement, Music, Writing, Philosophy, his empathy. It was a coping mechanism that they used and continue to use in dealing with a life-long tragedy.

It is is easier for Dermot's loved ones and friends to channel their grief in a positive way. It helps them cope by thinking that Dermot found peace and happiness by leaving home to start a new life. Too painful for Dermot's friends and loved ones to accept the potential for Dermot's strict father driving Dermot to possibly take his own life, or even run away because Dermot couldn't deal with his father's demands any longer. The rest of the Kelly clan can't blame the father, at least not openly Dermot's Mother and kids still had to live with the man.

I do have an interesting take on the institutionalization theory that Lucy suggests. As many know, I also believe that Dermot's "treatment" in the fall of 1971 was for "family non-conformity issues." Due to the strong distance from Oglesby to Chicago over a period of about a month, (Ninety miles away,) the "treatment?" was not something that Dermot could receive at home. It could have been experimental, truly heartbreaking, and painful. I would even go so far as to say, if Dermot was sent for "conforming treatment" Dad's, "straighten "The Boy out." approach, Dermot may have been given controlling drugs or even shock treatment. Especially if it was revealed that Dermot was gay. This is an element of the case that if it existed, moves me to tears and keeps me awake at night when I think of Dermot's troubles.

Dad may have threatened to send Dermot away if Dermot did not comply, That could have been a reform school, it could have been a psychiatric hospital, (called mental institutions back in the early 70's.) But I don't think Dermot would allow himself to be controlled in such a cruel and insensitive way. I personally think he would the family forever, before he would allow himself to be placed in a mental institution.

Why would Dad wait twenty years to go along with the charade in looking for Dermot if he knew that he had been institutionalized, and than have him declared legally dead at that time? Too much trauma to put his wife and children through something like that. Dad wouldn't spend money on his own legal resources, law enforcement, and two psychics looking for Dermot. I think the issues with Mr. Kelly were with Dermot and he, because their belief systems were so diametrically polarized, to where any compromise would be impossible, I don't think Mr. Kelly would be THAT COLD to put his wife and children through some charade.

There is a possibility that Dermot staged the scene and his disappearance, but, unlikely. One of the things that upset Dermot so much was hypocrisy in society. Saying one thing and doing another. Dermot hated that. For years, I think Dermot's whole life existed between this escalating tension of trying to please his parents, live by their conservative views against his own personal liberal beliefs of peace, freedom, and love.

Dermot's love of the Hippie Movement also shows that if you ever research about Hippie Movement followers, they are very truthful, loyal, and honest. I see Dermot as very loyal, very emotional, very empathetic and very honest. He may even be blunt and direct, but he's going to search for making things "real" Keeping thins real. For him to stage something I think would go against his beliefs.

I think Dermot would say that he just wanted a permanent escape from the family life that had troubled him for so long. I think his main concern was freedom and he had to leave forever to accomplish that goal. I wonder if Dermot believed he had to kill himself, because if he didn't, Dad would seek him out, drag him back and Dermot would have the same kind of hellish life that he escaped from? Maybe Mr. Kelly threatened to send Dermot away, if he didn't "straighten up and fly right." This could have been even more additional pain that Dermot experienced, forcing him to leave.

There's so much pain from the other kids and Dermot's Mother that they never want to accept the horrifying possibility that Dermot is dead. I maintain that Asta's side if the family never wanted to accept suicide as a possible motive because her side could think that Dermot's Dad's temperament may have forced Dermot to that horror. Or at the very least, forced Dermot to run away. In Asta's obituary, it stated that "her first thoughts were always for her family." That to me indicates a very nurturing Mother. If Dermot had been institutionalized, why would the family reflect on Dermot running away to join the Hippie movement, and in that article published "Youth Fled Society, Not Home-Family." talk about not knowing what happened to Dermot? Had Dermot been institutionalized, I believe that nothing would have ever been published after Dermot left home.

There's the three theories that remain for what most likely happened to Dermot:

1.) Accidental Drowning and/or Hypothermia- I would believe this more of the history of Dermot's family dynamics were more along the life he wanted, but they weren't. Dermot's oral notice about starting a new life, his father's temperament, and Dermot's views that go so much against everything that were his parents' philosophies. Too much evidence to say this was an accident, although it is still out there as a possibility.

2.) Staged Disappearance- Possible, but I don't see Dermot as a deceiver. However, if it was staged, it could be that Dermot wanted those to believe with the shoes and jacket found at the river that he had died.

3.) Suicide- Most likely because of the pain in the home environment and the need for Dermot to flee without the possibility of ever being forced back home. Dermot gave notice of "Going away to start a new life for himself." I think sadly that this was the best way that Dermot believed he could distance himself from the family. The vagueness in the explanation, "I am going target shooting" gives Dermot a range of places to go without being checked on, which would not have been possible if he was going somewhere specific. There is no evidence that Dermot things away or do anything out of the ordinary leading up to that tragic afternoon of 1:30 PM, January 30, 1972. If Dermot committed suicide, maybe Dermot wanted to make his suicide look like an accident? I think in addition to so many personal conflicts and trauma in his life, Dermot saw himself as the "Black Sheep" of the family, Almost everything he did was "not good enough." Anything praise given to Dermot I think was only a temporary thing. Just like Dermot listening to music, or reading, or meditating, as long as he lived in the family home, anything that made him happy was only temporary. I think the father was so shamed and angered by how Dermot changed and rebelled against family expectations. His father's anger combined with Dermot's tears, Yes, I think Dermot shed MANY TEARS. The military Gun-Ho man in Dad sees this as a sign of weakness. I think that tension destroyed the family. I think in her later years, every time one of the children would talk about Dermot, Asta I could see breaking down and crying, so they have no choice but the only way to attempt to come together as a family is to say and think Dermot left to find peace and love.

The river evidence, for me at least, shows true horror. It's easy to see why the family would not want that as a part of published reports, I contacted the writer Dan who wrote that incredible piece about Dermot, and he thinks suicide by gunshot lead to Dermot's death. What he believes is that the gun found at the crime scene could be a critical piece of evidence. Dan said once that if a bullet had been logged into the chamber, it would give weight to Dermot dying of suicide. If there was no bullet lodged into the chamber, he thinks it could have been an accidental drowning. However, I recall him saying that he thinks Dermot died by suicide and he maintains that the evidence at the river supports this.

From what I remember, we both thought it most likely that Dermot took off his shoes and jacket to hasten the process, than shot himself at the river's edge and fell into the water. I am getting unpleasant chills just writing this. This is so awful. I think it is beyond comprehension with this teen had to go through. This case just rips at the heartstrings!

Satch
 
Dermot's Nameus Page Report:

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6257/3

According to the report:

Dental information is entered
DNA has been submitted but is not complete
No fingerprints available
Data was entered in 2010 and does NOT contain the information from Dan's article


Satch

Update: According to NamUs, Dermot's DNA sample testing is complete! I wonder what they found or who/what they tested? I wish there would be a way to find out test results! Note that Namus however has his age wrong. Dermot was 16 when he left home, not 17

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6257/3

Satch
 
Update: According to NamUs, Dermot's DNA sample testing is complete! I wonder what they found or who/what they tested? I wish there would be a way to find out test results! Note that Namus however has his age wrong. Dermot was 16 when he left home, not 17

https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/6257/3

Satch

That is a great point. If the age is correct, is it possible the height may be off? Or he was measured with shoes?
 

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