IL IL - Valerie Percy, 21, Kenilworth, 18 September 1966

[Betty P]

I decided to download the book Sympathy Vote and am reading it this weekend.

One of the unusual things I noted so far was that the glass in the patio French door was initially cut in a large circle, about 18 inches diameter. The cut wasn't complete and the glass was then broken the rest of the way. The glass then fell into some drapes so probably didn't make a noise. The statement given by Mrs. Percy was that she was awakened first by the sound of footsteps downstairs. She assumed it was one of the kids up getting something to eat in the kitchen. She awakened later when she heard moaning and got up because she thought it was Valerie's twin, who had recently returned from a trip to the Congo, where she contracted malaria.

Not sure if the statement that she first reported awakening to the sound of broken glass was a mistake in media reporting or if she changed her story later.

ETA: Also, if the killer used a glass cutting tool, he would have had to carry that and a flashlight and a weapon during the murder and escape. The glass cutting tool was never found despite many gays searching the entire neighborhood and adjacent lake.


Anyway, it seems kind of unusual for anyone to have that kind of glass cutting tool.

Also, a policeman found footprints in the dew in the back yard going to and from the house and beach. The footprints followed in a line from the grass to the sand.

Also intersting was that Mr. Percy checked the house and all doors right after calling the police. Even though he was the first to find the broken glass and cut screen at the patio door, he stayed in the house. He didn't run out into the back yard to chase the killer, even though they knew he had just run out of the house moments before. It wasn't until after officers arrived thst one of them went into the back yard and beach to search.

As info the patio door was one seldom used by anyone. There was a dining table and chairs
In front of it, partly blocking it from being fully opened.

Hope to finish the book in the next day or two.

 

[Dreamnine]

I really liked the book and think the author has come as close as is possible to naming the right perpetrator.

Of course, we will never know for sure but I'm about 85% convinced.

 

[Richard]

The bayonet pictured in the link is a short version of the US M1905 bayonet. Origionally designed for the Model 1903 rifle, it would also fit the M1 Garand rifle. During World War II many of the origional M1905 bayonets were shortened to the size shown in the photo. This particular bayonet, however was made in the 10 inch size midway through the Second World War.

This type of bayonet was used by all branches of the armed forces, but by the time of the Percy Murder in 1966, newer styles of bayonet were in use. It may, however, still have been used in the various training commands. In 1966, they could be purchased in almost any surplus store for under $5.

All that said, I do not know if this particular bayonet was in fact proven to be the murder weapon. Having come from the water, I would think that any forensic evidence might have been lost.

Here are two pictures of the bayonet recovered from Lake Michigan and said to be the weapon used in the Percy murder. They are from two different detective magazines, and labeled.

The definition of a bayonet is knife that attaches to the muzzle end of a rifle. To my mind the knife pictured would not be capable of doing that so I'm not certain why the murder weapon is called a bayonet in almost everything you read about this murder.

 

[Winward1]

True, Richard. There is only probability.

The pathologist did say the head wounds were consistent with the bludgeoning end of the knife, which has a unique shape. And the knife didn't show signs of being in the water for an extended period of time (considering it was found just off a well used beach, only 40 ft. out, in the closing days of summer is another reason it seems likely it was not there long.)

Then there's the fact that numerous detectives on the case worked thousands of cases in their careers and this is the only one they could recall where a bayonet was said to have been the weapon (FBI documents reveal that the FBI strongly believed this bayonet was THE weapon.)

All of which, and given the fact that the victim was found 800 feet from said weapon, and a block and a half away from the family home of a violent offender who had indeed procured many (tons, literally) of then obsolete military weapons (including identical bayonets) by the time of the murder and who was returning to the area in the months that preceded it...makes me believe that this bayonet was the weapon.

 

[Winward1]

I agree, I keep coming back to the mixed presentation, the "break in" , possible staging, a lot of interpersonal rage, its someone close, maybe even at the house that night

So what you're saying is, if a family member or friend staged evidence at Percy's then they must have also broken into the home a mile west and 24 hours prior to the murder, as well as committed a home invasion at the Wacker residence in Lake Forest in Feb '65. Because that's what the investigators in this case were certain of. All three were committed by the same offender.

All of which is why this person being acquainted with the victim doesn't sound likely at all to me. Then one looks at high probability that some nut was walking around Kenilworth, Illinois, at 5 a.m. on a Sunday morning with a 15-and-a-half inch knife. That sound like a psycho to me. 40 of Percy's family and colleagues took polygraphs and were investigated by 20-full time members of LE. None of them were psycho. Thoresen, on the other hand...

 

[Winward1]

Don't want to ruin the book for you, Betty. But I can tell you one thing that isn't in the book that should be. According to Thoresen's then wife, when his father identified his brother's body, she said he shouted "this is murder! Where's Bill?" In other words, of all of the possible violent offenders then out there at the time, he immediately suspected his sole surviving son of murdering the latter's only sibling.

These people were Percy's neighbors.

 

[Winward1]

Hi Winward!

Can you clarify on the omission/errors in the newspaper illustration of the house? TIA

Yes and no. One news article reveals that the the twin beds in Valerie's room "shared a common headboard." That is accurate and should tell you something.

Otherwise, yes, there's no DNA or prints (that we know of) linking Thoresen (or anyone else it seems) to the crime. So if there's still a possibility the killer is among the living, no matter how remote, info about the interior of the house needs to remain undisclosed.

Overall, though, the drawings are pretty darn accurate.

 

[Kell1]

So what you're saying is, if a family member or friend staged evidence at Percy's then they must have also broken into the home a mile west and 24 hours prior to the murder, as well as committed a home invasion at the Wacker residence in Lake Forest in Feb '65. Because that's what the investigators in this case were certain of. All three were committed by the same offender.

There's nothing listed in the articles posted here of any home invasions in the area, all that was stated was that there was never a homicide in this city, in its history, and that LE was used to dealing with Burglaries.

Being since you listed this home invasion as having occurred in 1965, and the Percy case is 1966, I don't see why THAT little fact would not be considered pertinent in this case, and why it wouldn't be listed.

Id be willing to bet because it wasn't initially linked to this case it was a home invasion of an occupied dwelling and not a burglary.

Also in the one picture there's a caption about the "list of stabbing victims growing"??? -there's no indication of any stabbing victims in ANY of the articles I read other than Valerie Percy

A lot of things don't add up to a stranger in this case, NOW IM NOT SAYING IT CANT BE, I can only base this on what's listed here

Which doesn't seem to include anything on a home invasion

But ill also add that its also UNSOLVED, so if they were "certain" that it was the same individual, that committed a bunch of crimes, in the area, and had a suspect, in Thornsen, physical evidence, INCLUDING a palm print from the Percy scene, and yet apparently NONE of the charges in any of these cases, stuck

SOOO none of the prints were his?

Even though according to his wife, he had committed other crimes, including allegedly killing people????LE had NOTHING on him? at all?

You have an offender who brings weapons and tools to break in, at an oddball hour, with the purpose to kill a victim, in a dwelling that's obviously occupied, a high profile family, with daylight approaching, .. security system in place , dog in the house, and he brings a Knife, and something to beat her with?

And again I go back to the fact evidence was found at the scene, and Thorensen wasn't charged, how is that ?

All of which is why this person being acquainted with the victim doesn't sound likely at all to me. Then one looks at high probability that some nut was walking around Kenilworth, Illinois, at 5 a.m. on a Sunday morning with a 15-and-a-half inch knife. That sound like a psycho to me. 40 of Percy's family and colleagues took polygraphs and were investigated by 20-full time members of LE. None of them were psycho. Thoresen, on the other hand...

Without having evidence in front of me Id say that Thorensen is possible, but there seems to be things that are staged, or deliberately skewed in this case.

And for the record, you don't have to be "Psycho" to kill someone, plenty of atrocities, have been perpetuated by people with little more than a bad attitude, or fueled by embarrassment but no underlying psychosis .

 

[Dreamnine]

There is nothing at all to suggest this crime was staged or 'covered up.'

I've heard theories before, "It was the step-mother" or "It was a spurned campaign worker" and neither makes sense.

That would involve deceit on a large scale and, post tragedy, LE would have uncovered evidence that pointed to the family - or friends of - and quite simply they didn't.

When you look at the family it's clear that they were a quiet, modest type of people, despite Mr Percy's political ambitions, religious, and utterly bereft at the loss of one of their 3 daughters.

No guilt there; definitely an intruder.

 

[Kell1]

There is nothing at all to suggest this crime was staged or 'covered up.'

I've heard theories before, "It was the step-mother" or "It was a spurned campaign worker" and neither makes sense.

That would involve deceit on a large scale and, post tragedy, LE would have uncovered evidence that pointed to the family - or friends of - and quite simply they didn't.

When you look at the family it's clear that they were a quiet, modest type of people, despite Mr Percy's political ambitions, religious, and utterly bereft at the loss of one of their 3 daughters.

No guilt there; definitely an intruder.

You cant say "definitely" because no one has been caught yet , and the case remains unsolved, you have to then question why?, sometimes because LE is looking for someone that doesn't exist (Jon Benet Ramsey case comes to mind)

An often indicative sigs of staging, victims shirt was pushed up exposing her chest, but no evidence of sexual assault otherwise, - often indicative of staged sexual assault (Sexual Homicide Patterns and motives-Ressler/Douglas/Burgess)

That's just one, heres some more from the Crime classification manual from the same authors, who are former FBI profilers (except Ann Burgess)

"Crime Scene Indicators Frequently Noted in a Staged Domestic Homicide



Excessive trauma beyond that necessary to cause death (Overkill)

The murder weapon, fingerprints and other evidentiary items often removed

The victim's body is not concealed.

The offender will often manipulate the victims discovery by a neighbor or family member (doctor was called over to the house )

The crime scene often involves the victim's or offender's residence, as the offender typically has control of the scene and therefore can spend time staging the scene without worry of being interrupted.

Death may appear to have occurred in the context of another criminal activity such as a robbery or rape.

An offender who has a close relationship with his victim will often only partially remove the victim's clothing (e.g. pants pulled down, shirt or dress pulled up, etc.) He rarely leaves the victim nude

The offender frequently positions the victim to infer that a sexual assault has occurred

Despite the body's positioning and partial removal of clothes, the autopsy demonstrates a lack of sexual assault. With a staged sexual assault, there is usually no evidence of any sexual activity and an absence of seminal fluids in body orifices

Another red flag apparent with many staged domestic murders is the fatal assault of the wife and/or children by an intruder while the husband escapes without injury or with a nonfatal injury. If the offender does not first target the person posing the greatest threat or if that person suffers the least amount of injury, the police investigator should especially examine all other crime scene indicators."


More on staging

"When a crime scene is staged the responsible person is not someone who just happens upon the victim. It is almost always someone who had some kind of association or relationship with the victim. This offender will further attempt to steer the investigation away from him by his conduct when in contact with law enforcement. Thus, investigators should never eliminate a suspect solely on the grounds of that person's overly cooperative or distraught behavior

Did the perpetration of this crime pose a high risk to the offender?

Forensic red flags indicating staging include excessive trauma beyond that necessary to cause death (overkill). The victim (not money or goods) is the primary focus of the offender. This type of offender may attempt to stage a sexual or domestic homicide"

ALL PRESENT AT THE SCENE. - Also blatantly obvious signs of forced entry are suspect as well

Sources:
John E. Douglas, Ann W. Burgess, Allen G. Burgess and Robert K. Ressler Crime Classification Manual (New York. Lexington Books 1992)

[ii] Vernon J. Geberth, Practical Homicide Investigation (New York CRC Press, 1996). Pg. 359

[iii] John E. Douglas, et al, Crime Classification Manual (New York. Lexington Books 1992) Pg. 252-253

Few more indicators
◾No search for any valuables is apparent
◾No items have been stolen


Might wan't to hold off saying it was "definitely" an intruder

 

[Dreamnine]

From what I've read elsewhere, Valerie's top being raised up means little. The doctor couldn't remember if he raised it or not; perhaps Mrs. Percy did in the confusion and terror.

Interesting that you mention the Ramsey case - I firmly believe John Douglas sold out on that one, and wouldn't trust his opinion of anything. Patsy didn't write the note? Really?

However, there's nothing whatsoever in the Percy case that suggests family involvement.

 

[Kell1]

From what I've read elsewhere, Valerie's top being raised up means little. The doctor couldn't remember if he raised it or not; perhaps Mrs. Percy did in the confusion and terror.

Interesting that you mention the Ramsey case - I firmly believe John Douglas sold out on that one, and wouldn't trust his opinion of anything. Patsy didn't write the note? Really?

However, there's nothing whatsoever in the Percy case that suggests family involvement.

Yeah I didn't believe Douglas on the Ramsey case either, I favor Greg McCrary's interpretation of what happened, hence why I brought up the Ramsey case, STAGING

As for Douglas , believe what you want, but Ill listen to a guy with 25+ years, investigative experience in the worst of crimes, even if I think he's off ANYDAY

The fact I think he's wrong whether or not he sold out (which wasn't proven), even if I personally disagree with what he's saying doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing .

That being said , he wasn't the only one that contributed to the writing of those books, Robert Ressler, and other members of the ISU at the time contributed, (such as McCrary) they're accepted as academic, the courses are still taught at the FBI academy today , and even if he did sell out that doesn't negate his experience.

PLUS they were written while he was still active in the FBI in the early to mid 80's LONG before the Ramsey case.

There's nothing to suggest the family on the surface, but its also unsolved. Maybe because none suspected the family? With those aspects present that I cited before, from works currently used, by investigators, staging has to be considered.

AS one poster pointed out "footprints TO and FROM the house?"... how can we be sure they're not FROM and then back TO the house ? ..you cant

To successfully investigate anything you have to eliminate, pre conceived notions, and biases, and be open to other possibilities , while keeping to the evidence.

Like I said before I cant say without photos etc in front of me that this wasn't a break in with the sole intent to kill Valerie Percy , Im saying those aspects, of the case have to be answered before ANONE can render a decision.

Its like looking at your reflection in the mirror, if you move your right arm, your reflection will always move its left, you move your left the reflection moves its right ...NO MATTER HOW hard you try to change it stays static.... you have to look at it from BOTH sides.

If one even one aspect of a crime scene is possibly staged, you have to stop and start over looking at those who were present during... when there's more than one, you have to seriously consider those present during

And no matter how debated it is ... those facts are still present at the scene, and there's no resolution to the case, some 35-40 years later ?

 

[Winward1]

It's been said the up close and personal nature, if not overkill, of the attack in this case indicates that the slayer knew the victim, had a score to settle, etcetera.

There was a murder just a few miles away from the Percy crime scene, in Glenview, IL, in the early 90s, a young woman victim, close to Valerie's age. She was knifed on the doorstep to her parent's home. They found her body the next morning. The case went unsolved. They had no idea who did it. Glenview, like Kenilworth, is a place where major crimes are rare.

But they caught the suspect. A year or two after the murder in Glenview, he moved to LA. There he knifed three other women, at least two of them in home invasions. If I recall correctly, two of them, like Valerie, were in bed at the time they were attacked. Two of them died. The 3rd fought him off after being stabbed. One of those that died had been Ashton Kutcher's girlfriend.

The prep lived in the neighborhood of his first victim (not unlike Thoresen had a connection to Percy's neighborhood) and in the apartment complex of one of his LA victims. But he had no relationships with any of his victims.

But it just goes to show you, brutal, up close and personal nature M.O. and home invasion doesn't mean anything when the cause is a psycho with a knife.

 

[Winward1]

There's nothing listed in the articles posted here of any home invasions in the area, all that was stated was that there was never a homicide in this city, in its history, and that LE was used to dealing with Burglaries.

Being since you listed this home invasion as having occurred in 1965, and the Percy case is 1966, I don't see why THAT little fact would not be considered pertinent in this case, and why it wouldn't be listed.

<modsnip> Police tied the Percy murder to two home invasions (in 65 and 66) and one burglary (in 65) based on several pieces of evidence, including paint residue left behind at Percy's and a home broken into 7 blocks away, 24 hours prior, and the unique ways glass was cut at two other locations in addition to Percy's home.

(One of the very members of this forum is a family member of the family whose home was broken into on Sept. 17, 1966.)

In the '65 burglary (which, by the way, took place no more than a mile from Percy's), the suspect was seen driving away in a red sports car. Thoresen drove a Ferrari. Not sure how well you know Ferrari's but the lion's share of them are red. The suspect in that case was in the process of stealing guns. Thoresen hoarded guns.

 

[Kell1]

<modsnip>Police tied the Percy murder to two home invasions (in 65 and 66) and one burglary (in 65) based on several pieces of evidence, including paint residue left behind at Percy's and a home broken into 7 blocks away, 24 hours prior, and the unique ways glass was cut at two other locations in addition to Percy's home.

(One of the very members of this forum is a family member of the family whose home was broken into on Sept. 17, 1966.)

In the '65 burglary (which, by the way, took place no more than a mile from Percy's), the suspect was seen driving away in a red sports car. Thoresen drove a Ferrari. Not sure how well you know Ferrari's but the lion's share of them are red. The suspect in that case was in the process of stealing guns. Thoresen hoarded guns.

<modsnip>
And ill also add the case is still unsolved some 40 years later. So even if LE felt those cases were related, you still have no resolution to the case.

This just gets better , So the guy (Thorensen) can afford a Ferrari, but breaks into houses to steal guns???, ...is arrested once for illegal possession of weapons and Thorensesn was investigated yet none of these hoarded firearms are tied to any burglaries? .. nor was he correct? he wasn't tied to ANY??

If Police have all that info Im sure the case will be solved any day now.

 

[Dreamnine]

It is unsolved but, going by the book I read, I think Thoresen is a very good suspect.

Definitely I believe it was an intruder. A couple of years ago I even suspected Ted Kaczynski, mainly because he was local and it was known that he became unhinged that Summer. I was looking at a series of murders which include Percy and the Bricca killings in Cincinnati 10 days later. Here is a summary of that case:

http://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/cincinnatihistory/story.aspx?ID=1702452

Then there were the Sims murders in Tallahassee in October 1966.

I don't now believe that there was anything linking them, other than that all remain unsolved.

 

[Winward1]

<modsnip>
And ill also add the case is still unsolved some 40 years later.

You can add Thoresen being dead since '70 as reason #17 why he not only looks culpable for this crime but it still being unsolved 47 years later. And of course there has not had a major suspect emerge since then.

 

[Winward1]

Dream, your posts regarding T.K. and this case are highly interesting and informative.

 

[Kell1]

You can add Thoresen being dead since '70 as reason #17 why he not only looks culpable for this crime but it still being unsolved 47 years later. And of course there has not had a major suspect emerge since then.

Nor did their #1 suspect pan out, when the DID have him. SO I added it , well see if they ever charge him

 

[Kell1]

It is unsolved but, going by the book I read, I think Thoresen is a very good suspect.

Definitely I believe it was an intruder. A couple of years ago I even suspected Ted Kaczynski, mainly because he was local and it was known that he became unhinged that Summer. I was looking at a series of murders which include Percy and the Bricca killings in Cincinnati 10 days later. Here is a summary of that case:

http://www.cincinnatimagazine.com/cincinnatihistory/story.aspx?ID=1702452

Then there were the Sims murders in Tallahassee in October 1966.

I don't now believe that there was anything linking them, other than that all remain unsolved.

I don't think its related to either.

From an investigative standpoint , Never try to link cases, until you have gone through the one you are investigating, because you'll automatically start to rely on coincidences as evidence.

Theres a saying in LE that we "never read the book", because books are usually based solely on the authors, interpretation of the evidence. Even if it doesn't makes sense.

Avid readers, though often better educated, tend to start to believe any mystery falls in line with what type of literature, they favor ... for instance, take a look at how many homicides here someone automatically labels as the work of a Serial Killer or "psycho"

In reality very few ever are.

Though this is a mystery its not unlike other homicides that have ever occurred many times, before .

Always start with the victim, and work out, that's how detectives investigate homicides.

Burglaries, mostly happen during the day (63.1%), only in about (28%) were people home during , victimization of an occupant only happened in (7%) of the burglaries, according to a 2006 report

Most don't typically "break in" they will try doors or windows till they find one unlocked. (about 2/3) to that approx. (1/3) actually forced their way in

Here's some quotes, from a study done from 2003-2007 (I'm sure someone's going to say the 60's were different)

http://www.crimeinamerica.net/2010/...ome-good-doors-windows-prevent-violent-crime/

"WASHINGTON – An estimated 3.7 million household burglaries occurred each year from 2003 through 2007, and about seven percent (266,560) involved some form of violent victimization, the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) in the Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice, announced today.

Victims said they knew the offender in 65 percent of violent household burglaries, and in 28 percent of such burglaries victims said the offender was a stranger. Residents in all of these households were equally likely to be victimized by a current or former intimate partner as they were by a stranger.

Offenders were unarmed in 61 percent of the violent household burglaries that occurred between 2003 and 2007. In 12 percent of violent household burglaries offender possessed a firearm. About 23 percent of these firearm-related burglaries were committed by a stranger.

Between 2000 and 2007, the rate of burglary of unoccupied households declined from 26 to 21 victimizations per 1,000 households. The rate of household burglary when someone was home remained stable between 2000 (9 per 1,000 households) and 2007 (8 per 1,000 households).

Households composed of married couples without children experienced the lowest rate of burglary both when no one was home (14 per 1,000 households) and while a household member was present (four per 1,000 households). Single females with children experienced the highest rate of burglary while someone was present in the household (22 victimizations per 1,000 households).

Higher income households experienced lower rates of burglary regardless of whether the residence was occupied or not. Single family units (eight per 1,000 households) and higher density structures of 10 or more units (eight per 1,000 households) generally experienced lower rates of burglary while someone was home.

Damaging or removing a door was the most common type of entry in forcible and attempted forcible entry burglaries. Residents who were present in 18 percent of unlawful entry burglaries stated that someone inside the home let the offender in. Twelve percent stated that someone inside opened the door and the offender pushed their way in. Nearly four percent stated that the offender had a key to the residence and used the key to gain access.

Police were more likely to be contacted when an unoccupied household experienced a forcible entry burglary (73 percent) than an unlawful (41 percent) or attempted forcible (41 percent) entry burglary. In contrast, when household members were present during a household burglary, police were equally likely to be contacted regardless of the type of burglary.

These findings are drawn from BJS’s National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), the nation’s primary source for information on the frequency, characteristics, and consequences of criminal victimization. Conducted since 1973, the NCVS is one of the largest continuous surveys conducted by the federal government. On average between 2003 and 2007, 40,320 households and 71,460 individuals age 12 or older were interviewed twice during the year for the NCVS. The average annual response rate during this period was 91 percent for households and 86 percent for individuals.

Estimates from the NCVS, which includes offenses both reported and unreported to police, complement those from the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI) Uniform Crime Reporting Program (UCR), which measures crimes reported to law enforcement agencies across the nation. Unlike the NCVS, the UCR includes crimes against persons of all ages and businesses, as well as fatal crimes.

The report, Victimization During Household Burglary (NCJ 227379), was written by BJS statistician Shannan Catalano. Following publication, the report can be found at http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/.

For additional information about the Bureau of Justice Statistics’ statistical reports and programs, please visit the BJS Web site at http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/."


So if ANY of these are consistent this was MOST likely not tied, into a string of burglaries. If you eliminate the burglary angle from the crime, you basically eliminate, Thorensen as a potential suspect.

Because supposedly he was into stealing guns, ...If he was why wouldn't he bring one into an obviously occupied, high profile residence. I mean why would he break into a house, where he suspected guns were present, , but didn't bring one himself incase, he encountered an armed owner????..

Thoensen, had money , he had guns, so why steal them, why wouldn't this weapon nut, bring something more than a knife (if it was him at all) ????.. It doesn't make sense

He could afford guns, he could afford a Ferrari apparently.