Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[SMK777]

SMK777 Absolutely unbelievable! Thank you for taking the time to post the information and highlighting it, too!
Hmmm, reminds me of a parallel investigation in which a contact "found his phone" just sitting in the kitchen and turned it into LE, two days later. And, only after he erased a lot of evidence. Oh these criminals are just so damned smart...
Is this one of those, "I don't think anyone intentionally did anything wrong kind of moments?" Guess we'll have to see if he called in sick, cancelled an appointment....Orrrrrr, someone finally figured out his cell phone pinged in the area? Just trying to think of possibilities as to why he would admit he was there.

Most welcome.

Law enforcement were asking anyone there that day to come speak with them— I think he may have worried about being seen. If he failed to come forward and identify himself, it might raise suspicion.

 

[DizzyB]

With all due respect, there's nothing about abuse in the story. It describes a domestic incident where RA's wife took him to the hospital. If it were a domestic violence incident, the article would have said so, and if RA was beating on his wife I doubt if she would have been taking him to the hospital.

So exactly what is a domestic incident? I don’t understand the story-wife took him to the hospital-wouldn’t the police have called for an ambulance if he needed medical attention? Would the police be okay with her taking him if there had been violence or threats? If he was just drunk, why did he need to be medically evaluated?

 

[Figuring]

Does anyone know if there was ever official confirmation of if RA owned a gun or had a gun permit?

Also how does fingerprinting for gun ownership work, is it part of the permit application process or does it happen when you buy a retail gun?

I’m still thinking about fingerprints & if they could have cross referenced in a gun database or if perhaps they got his matching fingerprints from his job. I know Indiana scrapped permits last year, so am just wondering what the process was in the past.

 

[vliam]

Does anyone know if there was ever official confirmation of if RA owned a gun or had a gun permit?

Also how does fingerprinting for gun ownership work, is it part of the permit application process or does it happen when you buy a retail gun?

I’m still thinking about fingerprints & if they could have cross referenced in a gun database or if perhaps they got his matching fingerprints from his job. I know Indiana scrapped permits last year, so am just wondering what the process was in the past.

You don't need any of that to buy a gun in Indiana. If you buy from a dealer, you just need a license and a pen to fill out the form.

If you buy from an individual, you just need cash.

 

[Ms.Leah]

Senate Enrolled Act 322, passed in the 2017 session, requires all individuals arrested for a felony to submit a DNA sample via cheek swab along with fingerprints, photographs and other data during the booking process.

So hypothetically a man in Indiana accused of stealing from his neighbor could have been swabbed for dna? As long as the the theft met the requirements for a felony theft?

 

[Figuring]

You don't need any of that to buy a gun in Indiana. If you buy from a dealer, you just need a license and a pen to fill out the form.

If you buy from an individual, you just need cash.

Thank you so much, I’m in Canada so I know next to nothing about that stuff. So they wouldn’t have his fingerprints on file from any gun he may have ever purchased.

 

[Marysmith]

IDK. The first true crime case I followed was the murder of Danielle VanDam in 2002. Her 49 year old neighbor, David Westerfield, brazenly kidnapped her from her bedroom in the middle of the night and subsequently raped and murdered her - it was believed to be his first (and only) crime of that nature. However, he did have child exploitation material on his computer.

So, I’m of the opinion that maybe just the internet (particularly in this day and age of the dark web, chat rooms and illicit sites where it seems like you can practically order the type of abuse you want to witness) is enough of a first step to fuel something this big in real life.

I remember that case. So sad and so brazen!
Yes, I hear you and agree that that really could fuel someone.

 

[MassGuy]

Does anyone know if there was ever official confirmation of if RA owned a gun or had a gun permit?

Also how does fingerprinting for gun ownership work, is it part of the permit application process or does it happen when you buy a retail gun?

I’m still thinking about fingerprints & if they could have cross referenced in a gun database or if perhaps they got his matching fingerprints from his job. I know Indiana scrapped permits last year, so am just wondering what the process was in the past.

No clue about gun ownership, but as far as fingerprints in general, I don't think they factored in here.

The crime scene was outdoors, and the bodies were exposed to the elements for many hours.

I also don't think he would have come in contact with anything that would leave a fingerprint in the first place.

What I do think is much more probable, is touch DNA. He had to touch at least one of the girls in order to remove that article of clothing that was supposedly missing. He also had to have touched both of them in order to stage their bodies, which apparently occurred.

Because of the nature of touch DNA however, I think it's possible that they may have encountered multiple profiles, or didn't have a profile of the quality that would allow for genetic genealogy to be an option.

It's also possible that this isn't a DNA case, but whatever it is, I have the sense that they have him dead to rights.

 

[LeBlack]

i was wondering if family abuse would come up.

Do not be surprised if this is the only call to police by the wife.

 

[vliam]

Thank you so much, I’m in Canada so I know next to nothing about that stuff. So they wouldn’t have his fingerprints on file from any gun he may have ever purchased.

The only people that get fingerprinted are those applying for a gun dealer's permit. They have an actual background check done on them.

 

[vls12345]

Re: the alias. If it's legitimately an alias for RA (& not a clerical error)...

Could the name have come from someone RA served as a pharmacy tech? (Maybe RA used it as an alias because he didn't like the person or because he knew the person wouldn't be likely to find out, i.e., someone elderly or homebound, or...?)

My speculation only. MOO.

 

[Figuring]

No clue about gun ownership, but as far as fingerprints in general, I don't think they factored in here.

The crime scene was outdoors, and the bodies were exposed to the elements for many hours.

I also don't think he would have come in contact with anything that would leave a fingerprint in the first place.

What I do think is much more probable, is touch DNA. He had to touch at least one of the girls in order to remove that article of clothing that was supposedly missing. He also had to have touched both of them in order to stage their bodies, which apparently occurred.

Because of the nature of touch DNA however, I think it's possible that they may have encountered multiple profiles, or didn't have a profile of the quality that would allow for genetic genealogy to be an option.

It's also possible that this isn't a DNA case, but whatever it is, I have the sense that they have him dead to rights.

Thanks for this! I find it almost impossible to keep the specs straight in this case. Police reported early on that they had both DNA & a partial fingerprint. The family also confirmed that. One thing I wonder is if the DNA might be contaminated or confounded by the searchers? I don’t know! I keep wondering if LE found the weapon or something in the house search & were able to match that, it would be pretty compelling. But definitely DNA is the gold standard.

My brain is a bit stuck on DC saying the way they came about the evidence being “fascinating” I keep trying to imagine less conventional ways of IDing him, as I don’t know if just a straight DNA match is fascinating?! But I’m probably overthinking things!

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks for this! I find it almost impossible to keep the specs straight in this case. Police reported early on that they had both DNA & a partial fingerprint. The family also confirmed that. One thing I wonder is if the DNA might be contaminated or confounded by the searchers? I don’t know! I keep wondering if LE found the weapon or something in the house search & were able to match that, it would be pretty compelling. But definitely DNA is the gold standard.

My brain is a bit stuck on DC saying the way they came about the evidence being “fascinating” I keep trying to imagine less conventional ways of IDing him, as I don’t know if just a straight DNA match is fascinating?! But I’m probably overthinking things!

I totally missed the partial fingerprint thing, but if that's true, it would also likely contain touch DNA.

If that report today is accurate, they found evidence during that search that led to his arrest.

So however they found him, it now appears they have him.

 

[photographer4]

A thought just popped into my head last night. Could RMA, who has been stated to have been talked to early in the investigation (not sure in what capacity), have given the alias name/ID and that is why LE did not know where to find him when they realized they needed to look at him again? Could this also be the reason that the investigation changed and the focus on the young guy sketch? Or has it been reported that the alias was in fact a clerical error? If so, then nevermind.

That’s a huge error if it’s an error given another man is actually named the same name as the alias.

 

[Figuring]

The only people that get fingerprinted are those applying for a gun dealer's permit. They have an actual background check done on them.

Thank you! I’ve seen such conflicting info on this, as some elements seem to differ from place to place, I just only learned some places you don’t even need a permit (Indiana is now that way, I found out). & of course I’ve been told people can buy guns privately, borrow, inherit them etc.

 

[LeBlack]

Re: the alias. If it's legitimately an alias for RA (& not a clerical error)...

Could the name have come from someone RA served as a pharmacy tech? (Maybe RA used it as an alias because he didn't like the person or because he knew the person wouldn't be likely to find out, i.e., someone elderly or homebound, or...?)

My speculation only. MOO.

There's a real person by that name with a slight spelling difference. He looks like RA, IMO. MOO JMO

 

[acutename]

So exactly what is a domestic incident? I don’t understand the story-wife took him to the hospital-wouldn’t the police have called for an ambulance if he needed medical attention? Would the police be okay with her taking him if there had been violence or threats? If he was just drunk, why did he need to be medically evaluated?

maybe he injured himself... cut his hand; broke furniture or kitchenware? IMO... just imagining what might have happened.

 

[MistyWaters]

With the next most likely suspect facing trial for other charges, it's not necessary to press those charges yet (If there are additional charges to be pressed)

We could turn that around, if the evidence is there, what’s the point in LE stating the investigation is ongoing if they already have the answers? If the two were equally complicit, the murder trial could be joint.

 

[DizzyB]

That’s a huge error if it’s an error given another man is actually named the same name as the alias.

It’s hinky that it hasn’t been corrected-one would think that the person who has that name has been hounded since the arrest. Looks like an easy fix in the database, no? Somebody had to have been made aware of it and it should have been updated if it is wrong.

 

[vliam]

It’s hinky that it hasn’t been corrected-one would think that the person who has that name has been hounded since the arrest. Looks like an easy fix in the database, no? Somebody had to have been made aware of it and it should have been updated if it is wrong.

They'll probably fix it after he gets pulled over and hauled in. That's how things usually work unfortunately.