Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[Rtael]

Or it could just mean the bodies were repositioned in such a way so that murder wasn’t immediately evident.

To me that still means posed. *shrug*

 

[gliving]

From the text in parenthesis, it sounds like this was repealed. Wonder what the new law is

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035#35-42-1-1

IC 35-42-1-1Murder

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:

(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);

(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);

(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);

(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);

(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or

(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;

commits murder, a felony.

 

[sunshineray]

TEALGROVE, thank you. The in the microwave was a direct quote from a published article. ELLE (brilliant and long time Sleuth) provided the link to the story. So ELLE simply cited the info in the article. But, that doesn't mean the reporter got the information correct, huh? I thought it was strange KAK claims he "found it" anywhere. I personally think he hid it the minute LE knocked on the front door. He (or whomever was replying to KG as Anthony_Shots on the night of the girls disappearance) already had a heads up that the girls were missing and that he was a known contact! Dhaaang, I would sure like to read those texts, if that is how the communication was conducted. KAK isn't the kind of guy "in my opinion" who doesn't know the location of his phone at all times. (...probably only sets it down to climb in the shower...). KAK is such a disturbing individual. Also wanted to add BMacD must be one heck of a strong person to actually schedule a second jail interview/appointment with him.
PS*** And BMacD if you did get a second interview...I look forward to reading it! And, want to know how/why you asked certain questions.
PSS*** Any thoughts on BMacD's jailhouse interview?

I've always thought that iPhone he turned over was possibly hidden off site somewhere or just in TK's pocket? Would LE have had the right to physically search KAK"'s dad that day, if he was present? Maybe he was at work with that phone in his pocket the day of the seach. I'd think the younger KAK would probably have set up all the electronic devices in that house...as opposed to the older TK. Maybe that's why they all had KAK as being the owner, he set them all up when purchased? AJMO

 

[adbou00]

I agree with this theory especially moving bodies across creek to remove blood and evidence. This theory explains where his vehicle would have been as well. I believe LE took the 2016 Ford Focus into evidence. That likely would have been what he was driving that day. If this was planned in advance, he may have had a change of clothing in vehicle.

Exactly, this photo was taken the day the girls were discovered. Notice the red truck near the tree-line? I feel he parked near there to not be spotted by people driving down W 300 N. I feel he did plan this in advance.

 

[Gardenista]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035#35-42-1-1

IC 35-42-1-1Murder

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:

(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);

(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);

(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);

(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);

(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or

(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;

commits murder, a felony.

I saw that, but it says "(before its repeal)" Maybe the carjacking part was repealed IDK

 

[Crazyjster]

I still can only find where the bodies were "moved and staged" not Posed?

I think people are interchanging "staged" for "posed" and not realizing there is a difference

 

[asyousay]

Do we know for a fact that the girls *didn’t* know (recognize) RA?

I grew up in a small town and at that age, we routinely stopped by the local pharmacy when we were out walking around with friends. Candy… makeup… errands for our parents… if he processed photos then clearly he wasn’t always behind the pharmacy counter.

So it’s possible when they encountered him on the trails, they knew who he was - maybe it was more like “hey - isn’t that so-and-so from cvs?” And they videotaped him for the novelty of coming across him in an unlikely area?

I think considering they recorded him and took a photo If they had any idea who he was they would have said so. You wouldn’t have the foresight to do all that but then wouldn’t name him even by first name or where he worked if you knew who he was.


I still think he alarmed them as he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around and came back towards them which wouldn’t of been normal imo

 

[kittythehare]

The statute his charges are under:

35-42-1-1(2): Murder:

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC § 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);"

Edit to add source: 2017 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: ARTICLE 42. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON :: CHAPTER 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Please note he is charged under clause 2 of this statute.

I'm wondering whether he had a drug problem?
Did he need money for something?

 

[Figuring]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035#35-42-1-1

IC 35-42-1-1Murder

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:

(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);

(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);

(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);

(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);

(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or

(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;

commits murder, a felony.

Just wanted to add a note for readers that his charges are specifically under clause 2 here (not clause 1 or 3).

 

[Gardenista]

Tricia's guest from the other night had the $20 million bond part correct. She must have inside information

 

[Figuring]

I'm wondering whether he had a drug problem?
Did he need money for something?

I'm not sure how to quote my original post along with yours, but my feeling is it has much less to do with any robbery type stuff itemized in there but more to do with the other elements such as kidnapping, trafficking, sex crimes with children, etc. JMO

 

[photographer4]

I had this theory that KAK and RA had to be connected because the chances of the girls being catfished then murdered by someone else was so low.

But then I got to thinking, how many arrests for predator behavior we’ve seen in this area DN, JBC, etc then we have RL who needed a false alibi, was in the area at the time of the murders and as of right now we don’t know that he was involved.

So it doesn’t seem like a huge stretch that RA could have acted alone.

Carter said in an interview after the presser they’ve not cleared anyone when asked about RL

 

[Amandaaa]

I think considering they recorded him and took a photo If they had any idea who he was they would have said so. You wouldn’t have the foresight to do all that but then wouldn’t name him even by first name or where he worked if you knew who he was.


I still think he alarmed them as he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around and came back towards them which wouldn’t of been normal imo

I remember seeing people outside of the usual (school, work) and laughing about it with my friends (“omg look who it is”)

Just curious where the cvs was in relation to the girls’ homes, school etc.

 

[kittythehare]

I'm not sure how to quote my original post along with yours, but my feeling is it has much less to do with any robbery type stuff itemized in there but more to do with the other elements such as kidnapping, trafficking, sex crimes with children, etc. JMO

most of which involve profit for crime.

 

[chocolatechance]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035#35-42-1-1

IC 35-42-1-1Murder

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:

(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);

(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);

(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);

(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);

(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or

(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;

commits murder, a felony.

And he was charged under section (2). I suspect either child molesting as the basis, or possibly trafficking of a child and its promotion.

 

[Purdue19]

He is such a good man. And yes, it matters.

About a year ago, Mr. Carter came into one of my classes and we were able to have an open forum with him. One of the most interesting conversations I have ever had, in my short life. He's a great guy, down to earth, and a very capable leader. I have full faith in him leading this investigation and I'm looking forward to seeing what they have found out about RA and that everyone involved will have closure in the coming future.

 

[IceIce9]

Guy over 50, dressed unappropriately to the weather and casually walking through the bridge like that, in - what is usually consider working hours - is odd enough and creepy enough.
Who in the right mind being an adult would even walk behind teenage girls on a bridge like that? IMO no one cause you don't want to scare kids. You want a walk, you wait a moment to have reasonable distance, to not make them feel chased. This is how normal people behave. (Unless there are other people around, few groups of different age are walking - different story then) Him getting so close to them, had to be creepy enough.

“Working hours” vary so much that I don’t think the time of day would attract any attention.

I frequently work from home, and hike on my lunch breaks, which can be various times throughout the day.

When I am not working from home I am traveling for work, and almost always find a place to hike or walk on my breaks.

I see many people, both men and women, out walking any time from sunrise to after sunset, any day of the week.

Second and third shift workers, people who work from home, people who work weekends and have weekdays off, etc.

A large percentage of people do not have a 9 to 5 work day.

 

[Figuring]

most of which involve profit for crime.

Could be, but could also be for someone's own benefit/collection, could be for barter. A lot of csam networks actually work on barter because financial transactions can easily put people on LE map, & because it serves as collateral, wherein people who contribute more are trusted more & given more privileges (I've mentioned this elsewhere but I have sadly learned about this stuff because of a criminal family member).

 

[photographer4]

I think it's very plausible he could have walked. One theory I have if he drove there: is he parked at the far end of the cemetery. I believe he got there mins before the girls did, hid until they got to a certain part of the bridge, abducted them, said down the hill, murdered them, moved their bodies across the creek (hoping to wash blood and anything else off), staged their bodies, and walked up towards the cemetery to get back to his vehicle.

Searchers didn’t know what they stumbled on when kids were found. With so much blood loss how is this possible? If he killed them by the river they bled into the water and he cleaned them up then placed where they were found which was about 50ft from edge of creek based on prior LE statement.

 

[Alethea]

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035#35-42-1-1

IC 35-42-1-1Murder

Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:

(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC 35-48-4-1);

(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.1);

(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC 35-48-4-1.2);

(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-2);

(E) dealing in a schedule IV controlled substance (IC 35-48-4-3); or

(F) dealing in a schedule V controlled substance; or

(4) except as provided in section 6.5 of this chapter, knowingly or intentionally kills a fetus in any stage of development;

commits murder, a felony.

So if it is 1(2) then it is felony murder. I would say the underlying felony is kidnapping since we know BG forced the girls "down the hill" and that's kidnapping if they were not free to leave.

This tells me they are confident RA is BG. The working theory has been BG forced the girls down the hill and killed them.