Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[DizzyB]

I thought that, too, at first, but when you click on each individual result, the name listed is either "Richard Matthew Allen" or "Richard M Allen." I suppose it's possible it could still be a different RMA, but it seems to all be him.

Can you refine by DOB?

 

[ACG2x]

Reading the transcript of KK's interview with LE again, I am now more leaning towards he did not purposely give RA the password to the anthony_shots (a_s) account nor were they 'in cahoots', etc. Reading through his answers and subsequent interviews with local press, moo here is:

1. KK is a loner who is antisocial, has few real life friends, low self-esteem and lives online. He displays many of the characteristics that someone who fits this profile often does - grossly overweight and/or poor care of his body & self, spotty employment history, no social circle outside of the anonymity of the internet
2. He communicates with younger juveniles because he lacks the intelligence to communicate to regular adults and specifically adult women. Children are more on his intellect level. The anonymity of communicating online allows him to act with a level of confidence he'd never do in real life. KK is the last person who would approach a woman he liked in a bar and ask to buy her a drink or out to dinner
3. I don't think he grasps how serious of a charge possessing and distributing child *advertiser censored* is. I've heard some pedophiles that try to slick talk their way out of it and others who legitimately don't seem to understand how wrong what they did is. I lean hard towards KK being the latter
4. KK seems to legitimately not remember how many people he gave the a_s password to and who was accessing it and when. This is a direct reflection of his lack of personal and social care - everything is just kind of 'eh, whatever'
5. His answers around the deaths of A&L seem as someone who was legitimately not directly involved in it
6. Being a nobody in real life, KK strikes me as someone who would give the a_s password out to other pedos to seem like he was big man on campus - it was a status thing in that if others he interacted with online saw the a_s profile and what he was able to * ahem * "accomplish", his status would grow and boost his lacking self-esteem

Let's not get it twisted - KK is a pedophile and committed multiple crimes against minors and should be prosecuted as such. But unless there's some direct link to RA that will be released in the future, I can't connect him with the Delphi murders. AORN, I'm going with RA was a user of whatever various dark web or internet message boards, gathering places, etc. that KK was to trade pictures and second or third hand saw the a_s account password, used it and saw that Liberty had set up to meet a_s on the bridge that day. He goes instead and you know the rest. Again, all moo.

 

[Vpq]

Long time lurker, first post. With all the fingerprint conversation in the past few pages, and with the revelation that RA didn't charge the family for funeral photographs, I'll be interested to find out if LE was ever able to get DNA or prints off of any photographs or packaging. Furthermore, in any of the evidence seized from the home, such as the books someone else mentioned upthread, if those books were photo books and also if CVS has those self service kiosks for photo processing. If they do, does the photo processing machine retain any user info? Like, could he have made copies of any family photos or photos he himself took at the crime scene and that information was saved and somehow discovered and reported to LE?

Good questions. He could run doubles of one’s he liked too

Delphi murder victim's mom breaks silence & warns arrest is 'just the beginning'

LIBBY German’s mom has broken her silence following the arrest of her daughter’s alleged killer, almost six years after the eighth-grader was found dead alongside her best friend in an …

www.the-sun.com

Some people have two phones - one for personal calls/use and the other for business/company use. However, many companies today just pay for their employees monthly phone bill as part of the compensation package to avoid paying for another device.

With so much of the workforce going remote post-COVID, some have even stopped doing that reasoning that since WiFi is a requirement of the job, employees can make and take calls over that instead of using cell minutes.

That's a very long-winded way of saying no it's not common. I seriously doubt KK was a wheeler and dealer in the business world so his multiple phones IMO were for nefarious purposes which he kind of confirmed by throwing one into a microwave.

Some people have two phones - one for personal calls/use and the other for business/company use. However, many companies today just pay for their employees monthly phone bill as part of the compensation package to avoid paying for another device.

With so much of the workforce going remote post-COVID, some have even stopped doing that reasoning that since WiFi is a requirement of the job, employees can make and take calls over that instead of using cell minutes.

That's a very long-winded way of saying no it's not common. I seriously doubt KK was a wheeler and dealer in the business world so his multiple phones IMO were for nefarious purposes which he kind of confirmed by throwing one into a microwave.

I never heard about the microwave.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

And he was charged under section (2). I suspect either child molesting as the basis, or possibly trafficking of a child and its promotion.

From the audio alone, I'm pretty sure that kidnapping is apparent. Given that, he qualifies right there.

 

[Elley Mae]

I think considering they recorded him and took a photo If they had any idea who he was they would have said so. You wouldn’t have the foresight to do all that but then wouldn’t name him even by first name or where he worked if you knew who he was.


I still think he alarmed them as he walked past them on the bridge and then turned around and came back towards them which wouldn’t of been normal imo

Thanks for this, was looking for link about walking past then walking back.

Another OP with map showed walking from his home to monon bridge, I am starting to think he did walk there. If he planned this I’m starting to think he didn’t drive there.

Jmo

 

[Purdue19]

I'm wondering whether he had a drug problem?
Did he need money for something?

CSAM Addiction?

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Can you refine by DOB?

I get the same results when I do that.

 

[MistyWaters]

That parts about "criminal deviant conduct" & carjacking were repealed, but the other elements are current.

Would it be correct to say “criminal deviant conduct” was added after being repealed from a different code, only carjacking repealed? Regardless any of the horrifying circumstances listed explain why it wasn’t necessary to include separate charges against RA. JMO

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035/#35-42-1-1

 

[asyousay]

Thanks for this, was looking for link about walking past then walking back.

Another OP with map showed walking from his home to monon bridge, I am starting to think he did walk there. If he planned this I’m starting to think he didn’t drive there.

Jmo

It’s my assumption that’s what happened - because something obviously alarmed them so I think he doubled back hence them starting to get spooked.

Imo

 

[Chelly]

Searchers didn’t know what they stumbled on when kids were found. With so much blood loss how is this possible? If he killed them by the river they bled into the water and he cleaned them up then placed where they were found which was about 50ft from edge of creek based on prior LE statement.

Is it a creek or a river? Was it flowing and deep enough to wash off blood?

 

[O.Incandenza]

I don't think that ties KK in to RA. I think it just tells us RA came onto the screen when things were heating up with KK. I have been thinking about why I want KK to be the link -- what are the odds that a child killer happens to meet up with two girls and kill them or the same day a catfishing CSAMer searches for a gas station nearby and plans to meet them? Then, I wonder whether I am just falling for the Just World Fallacy -- the thought of a team of predators is more appealing than the fact that a young girl could reasonably talking with or encountering two in the same day. A master plan behind this is a lot more comfortable than the fact that sometimes life is just random and cruel

I mostly agree. We have nothing public that ties RA to KAK.

However, we do have not just one, but two massive timing coincidences involving them. The first one you point out, KAK was catfishing one of the victims right before the crime. He also reportedly searched for the gas station address in Delphi on the day of the crime (though the only source for this is the Murder Sheet). He also reportedly admitted to waiting in a car while the murders were committed (ditto).

The second timing coincidence is that RA's name reportedly came back up during the exact period this summer that LE was interviewing KAK frequently, transferring him from one location to another, and apparently making searches based off what they learned from him.

Those two things really could just both be coincidences, but they are highly suggestive of a connection.

 

[Alethea]

Just realized something: Libby may have provided evidence not just to identify her killer, but to convict him too.

If LE can prove RA is the person on the video, Libby recorded him kidnapping them. His statement forcing them off their walking trail down a hill to an isolated place is evidence of kidnapping. It's an admission.

To prove felony murder, the state has to prove the defendant committed an underlying felony and someone died in the commission of that felony. They do not have to prove the defendant physically killed the victim.

This case is horrific but I'm just blown away by these girls. They not only caught their killer but they're going to be the star witness convicting him too.

 

[flashy09]

Searchers didn’t know what they stumbled on when kids were found. With so much blood loss how is this possible? If he killed them by the river they bled into the water and he cleaned them up then placed where they were found which was about 50ft from edge of creek based on prior LE statement.

Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

DELPHI, Ind. – It has been one year since Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered while out on a walk on the Delphi Historic Trails. Their killer got away, leaving behind clues that police are…

fox59.com

I think maybe the bodies were not that unrecognizable, but seeing the deer first caused the searchers to take a minute to realize that the bodies were also in view?

 

[Figuring]

Would it be correct to say “criminal deviant conduct” was added after being repealed from a different code, only carjacking repealed? Regardless any of the horrifying circumstances listed explain why it wasn’t necessary to include separate charges against RA. JMO

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

https://iga.in.gov/legislative/laws/2022/ic/titles/035/#35-42-1-1

Hi Misty, I'm hoping a lawyer can comment on how those repeals are treated, I truly don't know! Just that the other listed items are current, & could apply in this case (of course we don't know which).

Where you said here: "Regardless any of the horrifying circumstances listed explain why it wasn’t necessary to include separate charges against RA." are you asking why he wasn't charged with anything else? I'm definitely not a lawyer!, but my understanding is that they're saying he committed murder (perhaps not intentionally, because that's clause 1), during the commission of another felony. It remains to be seen which felony (or felonies) from the list, though. JMO.

 

[Figuring]

Just realized something: Libby may have provided evidence not just to identify her killer, but to convict him too.

If LE can prove RA is the person on the video, Libby recorded him kidnapping them. His statement forcing them off their walking trail down a hill to an isolated place is evidence of kidnapping. It's an admission.

To prove felony murder, the state has to prove the defendant committed an underlying felony and someone died in the commission of that felony. They do not have to prove the defendant physically killed the victim.

This case is horrific but I'm just blown away by these girls. They not only caught their killer but they're going to be the star witness convicting him too.

Alethea, long time no see! I'm wondering if you might know how to interpret a couple of things in the statute that say "repealed" (specifically car jacking & something else I can't remember now). I think it reads to some people like the whole section is repealed, but just that those 2 items are in or out. But I'm not a lawyer!

 

[kittythehare]

CSAM Addiction?

I don't know yet.
Could be something we have never considered..
The 'staging' might be a clue but that's anyone's guess right now.
My mind goes to some weird religious type scenario but that's just a thought,, meaningless, most likely

 

[Vpq]

Reading the transcript of KK's interview with LE again, I am now more leaning towards he did not purposely give RA the password to the anthony_shots (a_s) account nor were they 'in cahoots', etc. Reading through his answers and subsequent interviews with local press, moo here is:

1. KK is a loner who is antisocial, has few real life friends, low self-esteem and lives online. He displays many of the characteristics that someone who fits this profile often does - grossly overweight and/or poor care of his body & self, spotty employment history, no social circle outside of the anonymity of the internet
2. He communicates with younger juveniles because he lacks the intelligence to communicate to regular adults and specifically adult women. Children are more on his intellect level. The anonymity of communicating online allows him to act with a level of confidence he'd never do in real life. KK is the last person who would approach a woman he liked in a bar and ask to buy her a drink or out to dinner
3. I don't think he grasps how serious of a charge possessing and distributing child *advertiser censored* is. I've heard some pedophiles that try to slick talk their way out of it and others who legitimately don't seem to understand how wrong what they did is. I lean hard towards KK being the latter
4. KK seems to legitimately not remember how many people he gave the a_s password to and who was accessing it and when. This is a direct reflection of his lack of personal and social care - everything is just kind of 'eh, whatever'
5. His answers around the deaths of A&L seem as someone who was legitimately not directly involved in it
6. Being a nobody in real life, KK strikes me as someone who would give the a_s password out to other pedos to seem like he was big man on campus - it was a status thing in that if others he interacted with online saw the a_s profile and what he was able to * ahem * "accomplish", his status would grow and boost his lacking self-esteem

Let's not get it twisted - KK is a pedophile and committed multiple crimes against minors and should be prosecuted as such. But unless there's some direct link to RA that will be released in the future, I can't connect him with the Delphi murders. AORN, I'm going with RA was a user of whatever various dark web or internet message boards, gathering places, etc. that KK was to trade pictures and second or third hand saw the a_s account password, used it and saw that Liberty had set up to meet a_s on the bridge that day. He goes instead and you know the rest. Again, all moo.

IMOO
1. He said he spoke to hundreds of people.
2. His best friend, whose name he did not want to share, was aparrently a big drug dealer selling pounds of weed.
3. He traded videos with others
4. He said he arranged to meet up with one of the girls
5. He had spoke with L for hours
6. His father was apparently explosive and violent.
7. He may seem to have what we use to call Axis IV Environmental/Psycho-social Factors like going with dad to a brothel
8. The investigators moved him from admitting to talking to 16 year olds down to 13 year olds.
9. He has done this for years.
10. They will have to investigate and sting all the other culprits in this ring
JMOO

 

[Gemmie]

The statute his charges are under:

35-42-1-1(2): Murder:

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC § 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);"

Edit to add source: 2017 Indiana Code :: TITLE 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: ARTICLE 42. OFFENSES AGAINST THE PERSON :: CHAPTER 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Please note he is charged under clause 2 of this statute.

I'm not likin' all the variations of trafficking listed.

 

[ohiobuckeyegirl]

When they headed to the trails that day, what was Libby wearing exactly?

police have said they were killed where they were found. But we’re they really there the whole time? Any chance he took them elsewhere and returned to kill them there later? It was dark. Very dark and Libby’s gtan once said all you could see were other flashlights everywhere that night. Any chance he was able to move them then bring them back?

If they lost a lot of blood and were posed and the area staged then I still wonder how searchers didn’t realize what they’d stumbled on when the kids were found?

I've thought and thought about it. The only thing I can come up with is maybe they were in the shack/shed on RL's property. If there was a shed there. I swear there was one, but I'm having trouble remembering that as fact.

 

[Gemmie]

Guy over 50, dressed unappropriately to the weather and casually walking through the bridge like that, in - what is usually consider working hours - is odd enough and creepy enough.
Who in the right mind being an adult would even walk behind teenage girls on a bridge like that? IMO no one cause you don't want to scare kids. You want a walk, you wait a moment to have reasonable distance, to not make them feel chased. This is how normal people behave. (Unless there are other people around, few groups of different age are walking - different story then) Him getting so close to them, had to be creepy enough.

He's 50 today. He was 45 when this happened in 2017. But I hear ya... 45 isn't much better than 50 when you're talking about girls aged 13 & 14.