Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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Re sealing, no doubt at all that the families & everyone else involved wants to protect the privacy, dignity & memory of the two innocent little ladies who were attacked by this beast imo

But the stated reason (per the statute) given by LE was that the investigation is ongoing. And how much longer can it possibly go on? Not too much longer, not against RMA at least - he’s already under arrest & that means they’re formally ready to proceed against him.

I have no idea what all is going on behind the scenes & what else they need, but i hope & expect (am I being naive?) that it’ll be long wrapped up by the Nov 22 hearing date … JMO
 
Imo We can't dismiss the possibilty of a clothing snap or button of some sort. I'm not sure how easily that would burn, but if he did it years ago maybe it's possible one kind of got buried under some debris and dirt and therefore protected to a degree? Maybe someone can help answer that? I just know that has happened in house fires and we saw it all the time as kids burning trash on our property that was just a larger version of photo of the fire pit at RAs home.

But how much of an idiot do you have to be to burn evidence in your own fire pit? Imo
An idiot like Patrick Frazee of Colorado.
 
Yes. The scene was bad. The PD locked it down early as there were some utterly sick details that were released in local MSM the 1st day, and then never spoken of again. I know, I was watching the report as it was said. I have never doubted that PD asked local news to keep that particular detail under wrap and they did. This is a small community. 3K people. I live in Houston, we have neighborhoods with more than 3K people. To protect the family, the memory of the girls and give them some dignity. I agree. I do not need all the gory details. The fact that someone murdered to very young and very innocent people is enough to tell me how bad it was. That aside, It has caused mass speculation. I won't speculate on RA's guilt or innocence other than to say, they probably did not arrest him for no reason. What I will say is that as is usual in these type of cases, it was more than likely sexually motivated, and we can all make this leap, as the girls clothing being remove is a good indicator. As is common in these cases, it was someone close enough to have seen at least one of the girls on occasion.
It was someone, that no one suspected. Ultimately, it was an act that was committed by a depraved individual, who although, as in most of these cased, knew it was wrong and acted anyways, and to add insult to injury, he proceeded to cut short their lives, to protect himself. It will all come out in the wash as they say. They will probably make a netflix special out of it in a few years. The real issue is that normal people want to understand. Some will claim to as there are not shortage of YT personalities who claim to know how these people become what they are. I have lived long enough to tell you that some people are just monsters.
Well said.
On this subject I have been personally bothered by the rights of a murdered victim/ victims.
I personally would not be a participant in the Websleuths community if my friend had not been murdered.
During the murder trial, her family chose to leave the courtroom before a graphic photo of the murder scene was shown.
As her friend, I chose to stay and view the photo in respect and advocacy of my friend as did several other female friends and advocates.
Here is the problem-
my friend’s nude raped dead body was prominently displayed on the BIG SCREEN in the court for everyone in attendance to see.
I know that there were a handful of strangers in the courtroom and I was personally extremely bothered that several male distant acquaintances were able to view the photo.
Here is the dilemma - if you are unfortunate enough to be raped and murdered apparently the whole world (or anyone who is in the courtroom during the trial) gets to see your nude dead body and all your PRIVATE parts become public.
WHY COULD THIS PHOTO NOT HAVE BEEN PASSED PRIVATELY AROUND THE JURY and to the defendant and his attorney ONLY?
In my humble opinion, there was absolutely and unequivocally no reason NO REASON that everyone in the courtroom had access to a nude photo of my friend.
Apparently there is no way to advocate for full privacy and decency for a victim? Or is there?
I remember thinking “wow, if you are unlucky enough to be a victim then you lose ALL PRIVACY -strangers get to see your nude body”

While I am personally vested in Abby and Libby’s case, and curious about what sealed documents contain, if there is anything therein that infringes on the privacy of these innocent young ladies PLEASE KEEP THEM SEALED.

PLEASE PASS PHOTOS IN PRIVATE IF LAWFUL ONLY TO JURY MEMBERS AND DEFENSE AND HIS ATTORNEYS.

No strangers should be allowed to view crime scene photos.

WE ALL NEED TO ADVOCATE FOR THE VICTIMS AND THEIR PRIVACY AND DIGNITY.

Just because you were unfortunate enough to be a victim, this doesn’t give others the right to see any photos of you unless it is critical to the case- as in the judge, jury, defendant and counsel.

I hope for Abby and Libby’s sake (their privacy and dignity after death) that this doesn’t go to trial but with the defendant pleading NOT GUILTY it is certainly headed toward a VERITABLE THREE RING CIRCUS INDEED.
 
Good morning,

Here is the link to information/biography of the Judges of the Allen Superior Court. You will find
the information for:

The Honorable Frances C. Gull,
who is in the process of becoming the Judge in this case:


Honorable Frances C. Gull

Criminal Division Administrative Judge



I'm glad the case was moved. Allen County will be able to handle this. It's where Ft. Wayne is located, which is one of Indiana's largest cities. I'm a little surprised the Supreme Court didn't just move it to Marion County (Indianapolis), as we have a new state-of-the art Justice Center that is supposed to be amazing (I haven't been there yet). I suspect it was a reflection of caseloads and which experienced Judge could take on such a high-profile case.
 
Re sealing, no doubt at all that the families & everyone else involved wants to protect the privacy, dignity & memory of the two innocent little ladies who were attacked by this beast imo

But the stated reason (per the statute) given by LE was that the investigation is ongoing. And how much longer can it possibly go on? Not too much longer, not against RMA at least - he’s already under arrest & that means they’re formally ready to proceed against him.

I have no idea what all is going on behind the scenes & what else they need, but i hope & expect (am I being naive?) that it’ll be long wrapped up by the Nov 22 hearing date … JMO
In Indiana, we can drag them out for years and often do.
 
I'm glad the case was moved. Allen County will be able to handle this. It's where Ft. Wayne is located, which is one of Indiana's largest cities. I'm a little surprised the Supreme Court didn't just move it to Marion County (Indianapolis), as we have a new state-of-the art Justice Center that is supposed to be amazing (I haven't been there yet). I suspect it was a reflection of caseloads and which experienced Judge could take on such a high-profile case.
Maybe someone can answer this also... could it be that a venue change will have to be in a district that mirrors carroll county district? With similar demographics etc? In other states, that is the procedure, I'm just not sure about indiana. So moving it to ft Wayne puts it closer to where a possible venue change could be (at least concerning jury pool).?
 
Maybe someone can answer this also... could it be that a venue change will have to be in a district that mirrors carroll county district? With similar demographics etc? In other states, that is the procedure, I'm just not sure about indiana. So moving it to ft Wayne puts it closer to where a possible venue change could be (at least concerning jury pool).?
I'd have to look through my trial rules for criminal cases, but I don't think demographics comes into play. If it did, we'd have to move the case to another small population county, and that county wouldn't be able to handle it either. I think the demographics just need to be jurors in Indiana who can fairly and impartially hear the evidence.

That said, the demographics in Ft. Wayne will be different. POCs in Carroll County are few; in Ft. Wayne, you'll have a much higher percentage: According to the 2010 census, there were 253,691 people and 113,541 households. The racial makeup of the city is 73.62% White, 15.41% Black or African American, 0.37% Native American or Alaska Native, 3.3% Asian (1.4% Burmese, 0.4% Indian, 0.3% Vietnamese, 0.2% Chinese, 0.2% Filipino, 0.1% Korean, 0.1% Laotian, 0.1% Thai), 0.06% Pacific Islander, 3.72% from other races, and 3.52% from two or more races. 7.96% of the population are Hispanic or Latino of any race. Among the Hispanic population, 6.1% are Mexican, 0.4% Puerto Rican, and 0.3% Guatemalan.[88] Non-Hispanic Whites were 70.3% of the population in 2010,[89] down from 87.7% in 1970.[90]
 
Here's the change of venue rule, but keep in mind that I don't think the venue has actually been changed yet--just the judge has. I need to read the actual order, but generally the defense attorney would request the change of venue.

Rule 76. Change of venue (A) In civil actions where the venue may be changed from the county, such change of venue from the county may be had only upon the filing of a verified motion specifically stating the grounds therefor by the party requesting the change. The motion shall be granted only upon a showing that the county where suit is pending is a party or that the party seeking the change will be unlikely to receive a fair trial on account of local prejudice or bias regarding a party or the claim or defense presented by a party. A party shall be entitled to only one change of venue from the county. Denial of a motion for change of venue from the county shall be reviewable only for an abuse of discretion. The Rules of Criminal Procedure shall govern proceedings to enforce a statute defining an infraction. (B) In civil actions, where a change may be taken from the judge, such change shall be granted upon the filing of an unverified application or motion without specifically stating the ground therefor by a party or his attorney. Provided, however, a party shall be entitled to only one [1] change from the judge. After a final decree is entered in a dissolution of marriage case or paternity case, a party may take only one change of judge in connection with petitions to modify that decree, regardless of the number of times new petitions are filed. The Rules of Criminal Procedure shall govern proceedings to enforce a statute defining an infraction. (C) In any action except criminal no change of judge or change of venue from the county shall be granted except within the time herein provided. Any such application for change of judge (or change of venue) shall be filed not later than ten [10] days after the issues are first closed on the merits. Except: (1) in those cases where no pleading or answer may be required to be filed by the defending party to close issues (or no responsive pleading is required under a statute), each party shall have thirty [30] days from the date the case is placed and entered on the chronological case summary of the court as having been filed; (2) in those cases of claims in probate and receivership proceedings and remonstrances and similar matters, the parties thereto shall have thirty [30] days from the date the case is placed and entered on the chronological case summary of the court as having been filed; (3) if the trial court or a court on appeal orders a new trial, or if a court on appeal otherwise remands a case such that a further hearing and receipt of evidence are required to reconsider all or some of the issues heard during the earlier trial, the parties thereto shall have ten [10] days from the date the order of the trial court is entered or the order of the court on appeal is certified; (4) in the event a change is granted from the judge or county within the prescribed period, as stated above, a request for a change of judge or county may be made by a party still entitled thereto within ten [10] days after the special judge has qualified or the moving party has knowledge the cause has reached the receiving county or there has been a failure to perfect the change. Provided, however, this subdivision (4) shall operate only to enlarge the time allowed for such request under such circumstances, and it shall not operate to reduce the period prescribed in subdivisions (C), (C)(1), (C)(2), (C)(3); (5) where a party has appeared at or received advance notice of a hearing prior to the expiration of the date within which a party may ask for a change of judge or county, and also where at said hearing a trial date is set which setting is promptly entered on the Chronological Case Summary, a party shall be deemed to have waived a request for change of judge or county unless within three days of the oral setting the party files a written objection to the trial setting and a written motion for change of judge or county; (6) if the moving party first obtains knowledge of the grounds for change of venue from the county or judge after the time above limited, he may file said application, which must be verified personally by the party himself, specifically alleging when the cause was first discovered, how discovered, the facts showing the grounds for a change, and why such cause could not have been discovered before by the exercise of due diligence. Any opposing party shall have the right to file counter-affidavits on such issue within ten [10] days, and the ruling of the court may be reviewed only for abuse of discretion. (D) Whenever a change of venue from the county is granted, the parties may, within three (3) days from the granting of the motion or affidavit for the change of venue, agree in open court upon the county to which venue shall be changed, and the court shall transfer such action to such county. In the absence of such agreement, the court shall, within two (2) days thereafter, submit to the parties a written list of all counties adjoining the county from which the venue is changed, and the parties within seven (7) days from the date the clerk mails the list to the parties or within such time, not to exceed fourteen (14) days from that date, as the court shall fix, shall each alternately strike off the names of such counties. The party first filing such motion shall strike first, and the action shall be sent to the county remaining not stricken under such procedure. If a party is brought into the action as provided in Trial Rule 14, and that party thereafter files a motion for change of venue which is granted, that party and the plaintiff shall be the parties entitled to strike. A moving party that fails to strike within said time shall not be entitled to a change of venue, and the court shall resume jurisdiction of the cause. If a nonmoving party fails to strike within the time limit, the clerk shall strike for such party.
 
I haven't read any posts since last week...

I received a VINElink alert that RA was transferred to another facility yesterday.
About that. Wasn't he transferred already one time after his arrest last week for safety reasons, from one jail to another?

I'm confused by that. Did they transfer him TO carroll county last week from White county?

That seems to be what vinelink said or is saying today even.
vinelink.com
 

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Here's the change of venue rule, but keep in mind that I don't think the venue has actually been changed yet--just the judge has. I need to read the actual order, but generally the defense attorney would request the change of venue.

Rule 76. Change of venue (A) In civil actions where the venue may be changed from the county, such change of venue from the county may be had only upon the filing of a verified motion specifically stating the grounds therefor by the party requesting the change. The motion shall be granted only upon a showing that the county where suit is pending is a party or that the party seeking the change will be unlikely to receive a fair trial on account of local prejudice or bias regarding a party or the claim or defense presented by a party. A party shall be entitled to only one change of venue from the county. Denial of a motion for change of venue from the county shall be reviewable only for an abuse of discretion. The Rules of Criminal Procedure shall govern proceedings to enforce a statute defining an infraction. (B) In civil actions, where a change may be taken from the judge, such change shall be granted upon the filing of an unverified application or motion without specifically stating the ground therefor by a party or his attorney. Provided, however, a party shall be entitled to only one [1] change from the judge. After a final decree is entered in a dissolution of marriage case or paternity case, a party may take only one change of judge in connection with petitions to modify that decree, regardless of the number of times new petitions are filed. The Rules of Criminal Procedure shall govern proceedings to enforce a statute defining an infraction. (C) In any action except criminal no change of judge or change of venue from the county shall be granted except within the time herein provided. Any such application for change of judge (or change of venue) shall be filed not later than ten [10] days after the issues are first closed on the merits. Except: (1) in those cases where no pleading or answer may be required to be filed by the defending party to close issues (or no responsive pleading is required under a statute), each party shall have thirty [30] days from the date the case is placed and entered on the chronological case summary of the court as having been filed; (2) in those cases of claims in probate and receivership proceedings and remonstrances and similar matters, the parties thereto shall have thirty [30] days from the date the case is placed and entered on the chronological case summary of the court as having been filed; (3) if the trial court or a court on appeal orders a new trial, or if a court on appeal otherwise remands a case such that a further hearing and receipt of evidence are required to reconsider all or some of the issues heard during the earlier trial, the parties thereto shall have ten [10] days from the date the order of the trial court is entered or the order of the court on appeal is certified; (4) in the event a change is granted from the judge or county within the prescribed period, as stated above, a request for a change of judge or county may be made by a party still entitled thereto within ten [10] days after the special judge has qualified or the moving party has knowledge the cause has reached the receiving county or there has been a failure to perfect the change. Provided, however, this subdivision (4) shall operate only to enlarge the time allowed for such request under such circumstances, and it shall not operate to reduce the period prescribed in subdivisions (C), (C)(1), (C)(2), (C)(3); (5) where a party has appeared at or received advance notice of a hearing prior to the expiration of the date within which a party may ask for a change of judge or county, and also where at said hearing a trial date is set which setting is promptly entered on the Chronological Case Summary, a party shall be deemed to have waived a request for change of judge or county unless within three days of the oral setting the party files a written objection to the trial setting and a written motion for change of judge or county; (6) if the moving party first obtains knowledge of the grounds for change of venue from the county or judge after the time above limited, he may file said application, which must be verified personally by the party himself, specifically alleging when the cause was first discovered, how discovered, the facts showing the grounds for a change, and why such cause could not have been discovered before by the exercise of due diligence. Any opposing party shall have the right to file counter-affidavits on such issue within ten [10] days, and the ruling of the court may be reviewed only for abuse of discretion. (D) Whenever a change of venue from the county is granted, the parties may, within three (3) days from the granting of the motion or affidavit for the change of venue, agree in open court upon the county to which venue shall be changed, and the court shall transfer such action to such county. In the absence of such agreement, the court shall, within two (2) days thereafter, submit to the parties a written list of all counties adjoining the county from which the venue is changed, and the parties within seven (7) days from the date the clerk mails the list to the parties or within such time, not to exceed fourteen (14) days from that date, as the court shall fix, shall each alternately strike off the names of such counties. The party first filing such motion shall strike first, and the action shall be sent to the county remaining not stricken under such procedure. If a party is brought into the action as provided in Trial Rule 14, and that party thereafter files a motion for change of venue which is granted, that party and the plaintiff shall be the parties entitled to strike. A moving party that fails to strike within said time shall not be entitled to a change of venue, and the court shall resume jurisdiction of the cause. If a nonmoving party fails to strike within the time limit, the clerk shall strike for such party.
Yes that what i meant. Maybe that ft Wayne was closer to a potential jury pool.? They'd have to be bussed in ... just speculating on why ft wayne..that is all.
 
Well said.
On this subject I have been personally bothered by the rights of a murdered victim/ victims.
I personally would not be a participant in the Websleuths community if my friend had not been murdered.
During the murder trial, her family chose to leave the courtroom before a graphic photo of the murder scene was shown.
As her friend, I chose to stay and view the photo in respect and advocacy of my friend as did several other female friends and advocates.
Here is the problem-
my friend’s nude raped dead body was prominently displayed on the BIG SCREEN in the court for everyone in attendance to see.
I know that there were a handful of strangers in the courtroom and I was personally extremely bothered that several male distant acquaintances were able to view the photo.
Here is the dilemma - if you are unfortunate enough to be raped and murdered apparently the whole world (or anyone who is in the courtroom during the trial) gets to see your nude dead body and all your PRIVATE parts become public.
WHY COULD THIS PHOTO NOT HAVE BEEN PASSED PRIVATELY AROUND THE JURY and to the defendant and his attorney ONLY?
In my humble opinion, there was absolutely and unequivocally no reason NO REASON that everyone in the courtroom had access to a nude photo of my friend.
Apparently there is no way to advocate for full privacy and decency for a victim? Or is there?
I remember thinking “wow, if you are unlucky enough to be a victim then you lose ALL PRIVACY -strangers get to see your nude body”

While I am personally vested in Abby and Libby’s case, and curious about what sealed documents contain, if there is anything therein that infringes on the privacy of these innocent young ladies PLEASE KEEP THEM SEALED.

PLEASE PASS PHOTOS IN PRIVATE IF LAWFUL ONLY TO JURY MEMBERS AND DEFENSE AND HIS ATTORNEYS.

No strangers should be allowed to view crime scene photos.

WE ALL NEED TO ADVOCATE FOR THE VICTIMS AND THEIR PRIVACY AND DIGNITY.

Just because you were unfortunate enough to be a victim, this doesn’t give others the right to see any photos of you unless it is critical to the case- as in the judge, jury, defendant and counsel.

I hope for Abby and Libby’s sake (their privacy and dignity after death) that this doesn’t go to trial but with the defendant pleading NOT GUILTY it is certainly headed toward a VERITABLE THREE RING CIRCUS INDEED.
All of this.

I'm sorry for your loss.
 
Yes that what i meant. Maybe that ft Wayne was closer to a potential jury pool.? They'd have to be bussed in ... just speculating on why ft wayne..that is all.
I'd be speculating too. They could've chosen Lake County (Indiana side of Chicago), Indianapolis and maybe Lafayette (although that might be a stretch since most of that population likely comes from Purdue). I suspect the Supreme Court clerk ran the caseload numbers and picked one of the experienced judges who could handle this. Just my speculation.
 
Last edited:
Nov 4 2022
''A news conference with state police and Prosecutor Nick McLeland, Monday, provided no answers as to why police believe Allen is their man. The authorities present said the documents should remain sealed because the investigation is not over.

McLeland offered that such a procedure is unusual.''
 
I am trying hard to catch up from being two threads behind, and wanted to read everything so I don't repeat others' thoughts.

My mind is blown by so many things.... I will try to be brief.

These are my wth moments and thoughts and some involve 'power and control':

-I am in awe that the amazing people of Delphi who knew about the search of RA's home a week before his arrest didn't leak a drop of info to infest the social media rumor mill

-there is an actual picture of him with sketch #2 in the background posted on social media and its one of the only pictures where he seems to be smiling!

-his daughter posed for a picture on the bridge that was posted on social media after the murders - I feel so awful for her! I want to know who took the picture!!

-he actally assisted Becky with pulling photos off her phone and gave them to her free? Sick monster likely enjoyed the feeling of power he had in those moments and it makes me SO ANGRY!

-He initiated multiple conversations with people about the murders. Likely in an attempt to find out what others knew (local gossip) about the crimes. I wonder if he fed others with misinformation?

-wondering if 'small man syndrome' was at all a factor in these murders. "a condition where a man feels inadequate because of his short height and may try to overcompensate it with overly aggressive behaviour." I am not saying it was, just really wondering if he ever displayed any type of aggressive behaviour in the past that appeared to be triggered by feeling inadequate about his height.

-Becky and Mike Patty, Anna Williams and Kelsi German Siebert are all true class acts as they each navigate what should be private moments with feelings of joy, justice, bitterness, anger, relief, silence, etc. in a public setting.

I am in awe of their courage and unwavering faith.

It emotionally overwhelmed me when Becky responded to the reporter's question;

"What keeps you hopeful?"

Becky was clearly distraught and said, "If it were your child, would you have an option not to be hopeful? That's why we're hopeful."

-On Wednesday, October 26th 2022 Delphi's BG was finally arrested. Richard Matthew Allen was a face I had never seen on the body of a person who lived in all of our nightmares.

I hope he never sleeps again.


JMO
 
I'd be speculating too. They could've chosen Lake County (Indiana side of Chicago), Indianapolis and maybe Lafayette (although that might be a straight since most of that population likely comes from Purdue). I suspect the Supreme Court clerk ran the caseload numbers and picked one of the experienced judges who could handle this. Just my speculation.
But they chose a special judge. Not a location.
 
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