Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Sundog]

That's very interesting!

What I'm after is confirmation a judge can remotely preside over a hearing. Which brings to mind an image of a packed courtroom in Carroll County with a computer screen in place of a physical judge. Because a few posters have suggested she can preside over a Carroll County hearing while sitting in Allen County. This seems odd to me and I'm asking for a linked confirmation she can do this. I've not heard of it.

I think the community may have concerns about a judge presiding over the case from a distance, especially at the initial hearings (including November 22nd public hearing). Just speculating.

 

[MistyWaters]

Thank you for pointing that out. I mistakenly thought the probable cause being discussed was to search RA's home. Yours makes more sense.

You’re welcome. A way to think of it is the prosecution filed the PC to the support the two specific charges and judge signed off on it - suggesting RA “probably caused” the death of Libby and Abby - however the prosecutor still must present that same evidence during trial and a jury has to deliver a guilty verdict to move beyond the word ”probably” to “did”. JMO

 

[Kudzuu]

I took the very very helpful comment as tongue in cheek. Like maybe RA tipped his hand by being too helpful.

I don't know. Is it in inherently manipulative to be "very helpful?" The Sheriff is just starting a factual observation about how he experienced him. I mean, do you think a sign of a killer is they sit around being mean and unhelpful?

 

[FrostedGlass]

The Amanda Blackburn murder in Indy was so well known that there were 2 mistrials due to problems with the jury. They finally decided on a bench trial. Maybe that's what will happen with this one in the end.

 

[Jillyg]

I wonder if the fact that RA does not yet have an attorney representing him, that this could be a factor in why the affidavit was initially sealed. Not the only factor, but one factor that the presiding judge considered, along with the wishes of the prosecution.

That's a double edge sword in my opinion. But a good take. Maybe so.

 

[dgfred]

Well, it took a long time for the 'tipped' to occur. Maybe what he said back then helped the case now.

 

[Gardenista]

A good number of the Indiana courts have Zoom conferences. The inmate is in jail, in a room with a computer setup, the attorney is either in court or at home or somewhere in between, the judge is in his court. If the accused is not in jail, they just check in from wherever they are. The public can click on the live stream and it's as good as being there.

If Judge Gull live streamed the hearings I don't know that the media would have to be present. However, I can't remember ever seeing Allen Co courts streaming.

It looks like this is the page where you can find all current court streams. If it's like TX, the list of trials changes throughout the day as they go live.

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[taylorss]

I took the very very helpful comment as tongue in cheek. Like maybe RA tipped his hand by being too helpful.

Yeah I took it as sarcastic

 

[chocolatechance]

The Amanda Blackburn murder in Indy was so well known that there were 2 mistrials due to problems with the jury. They finally decided on a bench trial. Maybe that's what will happen with this one in the end.

That thought has crossed my mind. The idea of mistrials does not make me happy. The families suffer so much. And it's so much wasted effort on both sides.

 

[FrostedGlass]

It looks like this is the page where you can find all current court streams. If it's like TX, the list of trials changes throughout the day as they go live.

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Yes, that's the one. Elkhart Sup 1 has a trial going on today; they are in recess atm. I think it's a rape case.

Doxpop has the calendars

Doxpop

www.doxpop.com

 

[Jillyg]

Personally I don't see why the public should be told any more details until the trial. That goes for all cases IMO.

It prevents misconduct/deeds by the government. That's why transparency is KEY in a free and open society. Imo

 

[Trebor5591]

.


Well…when I read the product of the judge’s quill and juris mind, I couldn’t but wish they still spoke Latin in court. (What did poor English language do to deserve it?)

As a professional, one should explain things better.

I still remember how in 2019, we heard “if you knew all the history, you’d understand why we kept things close to our vest”.

Now, in 2022, we hear “if you knew all the history, you’d understand why we keep the affidavit sealed”.

Could it be so that one day one might hear, “if you knew all the history, you’d understand why we are considering this man guilty without making the proceedings of the trial public domain”?

Exactly. MOO, but I believe it is the fact that trials are open to the scrutiny of the public that ensures LE plays by the rules and doesn't lock up innocent people. When LE starts sealing records and telling people they don't need to know certain facts related to a case, the public should be worried, IMO.

 

[M.James]

Does anyone know who may have helped with the second killer sketch?
Just wondering if it's possible that Kline helped with that.

 

[stargazer17]

I’m not caught up and not sure if it was mentioned or allowed here but Becky Patty has a change.org petition to keep the docs sealed, if anyone is interested in supporting the family….

The petition is almost at 25,000 in 24 hours! I hope they take it into consideration for the families sake. I know many don’t agree with keeping it sealed but I think it’s important to the case and IMO there are others involved.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes, a judge can preside over a hearing via video, and all parties can participate via video (this became common during the pandemic, and I've done this several times). This is particularly useful if it's going to be difficult to transport an inmate. Now, whether the public will be allowed to watch? That's up for debate, especially given the sealed records vs. the high public interest.

I think that logistically it may be hard for Carroll County to handle a hearing, particularly the one involving unsealing the records, where there will be large numbers of reporters, members of the public, ect. That courthouse simply won't have the staffing to provide security and likely won't have enough space. It certainly doesn't have enough staff based on what Judge Deiner reported (see the link earlier in the thread on his description of the court resources). I could see the Carroll County prosecutor and the defense attorney (once he/she has appeared) traveling to Ft. Wayne for a hearing like that. If the hearings remain "sealed" without reporters, then Carroll County could probably handle hearings.

The magnitude of this case due to international interest is not the norm here, and I think everyone's going to have to think about practicalities in deciding where the hearings take place. And that's assuming the venue isn't changed, but that'd be the first motion I'd file if I was RA's criminal defense attorney.

So venue doesn't matter? Will you please provide the link?

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think the community may have concerns about a judge presiding over the case from a distance, especially at the initial hearings (including November 22nd public hearing). Just speculating.

I have huge concerns. JMO

 

[jg580]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier but why can't they just redact sensitive info in the PC and then release it? I don't think PCs would have any grisly details since my understanding is that its just a document explaining how they came to arrest RA (not details of the murder.) Perhaps, it does have info about other individuals they have yet to apprehend but then again, I feel like IF that were the issue, wouldnt these other suspects already be high tailing it out of there/getting rid of evidence anyway? RA's face is plastered everywhere...I can't imagine any co-conspirators that have not already been arrested wouldn't already be fearful of being on LE's radar. Or maybe I'm giving criminals too much credit and they are actually super dumb and don't watch news lol.

 

[WingsOverTX]

It looks like this is the page where you can find all current court streams. If it's like TX, the list of trials changes throughout the day as they go live.

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Awesome! Thanks

 

[oviedo]

Sorry if this has been mentioned earlier but why can't they just redact sensitive info in the PC and then release it? I don't think PCs would have any grisly details since my understanding is that its just a document explaining how they came to arrest RA (not details of the murder.) Perhaps, it does have info about other individuals they have yet to apprehend but then again, I feel like IF that were the issue, wouldnt these other suspects already be high tailing it out of there/getting rid of evidence anyway? RA's face is plastered everywhere...I can't imagine any co-conspirators that have not already been arrested wouldn't already be fearful of being on LE's radar. Or maybe I'm giving criminals too much credit and they are actually super dumb and don't watch news lol.

You raise an interesting point IMO - I hunted around for an example of a probable cause affidavit and this link has a 6 page affidavit for the arrest of the woman involved in the boy in the suitcase (also Indiana)

UPDATE: Affidavit reveals messages sent by mother of 5-year-old found dead in suitcase

ISP said they have identified two suspects in the case, including Dejuane Ludie Anderson, who was identified as the mother of the deceased child. The child was identified as Cairo Ammar Jordan from…

www.wane.com

It is redacted and quite detailed. If the Delphi suspect's PCA is as detailed, I can see why it is sealed (so far).

JMO

 

[Indyhandmade]

My biggest fear is that he will pull an Ariel Castro and cheat the families out of justice for their loss. I hope they keep him safe and sound and on 24-hour watch.

This is the case I think of whenever somebody complains that “RA was right there under their nose!” Castro held those girls hostage for a decade! He inserted himself into the investigation as well - going to the vigils and handing out missing persons flyers.