Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[LammyTheRobot]

I would think that his lawyers would have wanted to get out ahead of everything and dispute some things in the media before they were gagged. But if they had nothing, then they couldn't say anything. That is concerning to me. This is all very, very strange.

Good point! So the orders currently in place create a cascade whereby the only thing in the public is the prosecution/ISP narrative, the reasoning behind that narrative not being allowed out, and now even if the reasoning is ever published, an order signed today preventing anyone connected to the case from discussing it publicly.

It would be kinda wild to think that official misconduct is even a thing in 2022, but it is. Yes this is delicate, yes there are some things that don't need to be made public - I'll even bite and say maybe the DA should have some benefit-of-the-doubt and maybe just maybe publicity could do some harm in some ways unless done properly - but the shroud of mystery mixed with complaints about "the media!! and social media!!! they'll ruin it all!" with the undoing of due process isn't helping.

Just to note, Indiana has overturned twelve wrongful murder convictions since 2000 - it happens. 70% of the time it's due to official misconduct. Against that background you'd want a squeaky-clean process, surely. Exonerations in the United States Map

 

[Nikynoo]

I can see a good answer to "down the hill" by the defense, but if I were the prosecutor, I would play the entire video/audio. Moo but I think there is something more incriminating that hasn't been released.

Yes, we will see won't we?

 

[TL4S]

What if these juvenile witnesses, and the evidence listed in the PC, give away the line of investigation LE is currently following to see if other parties are involved? Maybe redacting everything necessary to protect the case might mean releasing pages of black bars. IMO, that's fine. If the judge feels that is helpful in securing our rights to see these documents, then so be it, but many folks will still not be satisfied. JMO.

 

[zencompass]

In my opinion, Judge Gull will make her Order either tomorrow or Friday to unseal the redacted Probable Cause Affidavit.

It will be heavily redacted but we've seen that before in other cases.

JMO

 

[Dutch77]

I'm feeling less confident in this case. :/

I feel less confident in the prosecution. I wonder if the arrest was rushed to get it made prior to the election and the prosecution is still catching up.

 

[Le Singe]

Defence attorney, Andrew Goldman, in his comments to reporters after today's hearing said, among other things:

"(his) wife fully supports him. But she's scared, she doesn't want to leave her house, she did leave her house."

"Transparency is important. It may be weird for defence lawyers to be arguing that we want things to be seeable."

"Why is this man being convicted in the court of public opinion?"

Re the probable cause seal: "You cannot conduct a 'suppression' issue in public without talking about the facts."

Read Kafka, please. Everyone.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595082618844086273

JMO

He is spot on in what he is saying here. Releasing the info is not going to taint the jury pool or hurt the defendant nearly as much as the pool is currently being tainted and the defendant is currently being hurt by allowing rampant speculation and fiction to fill in for fact. IMO contrary to what a lot of people in these threads seem to think it is the above secrecy and letting speculation fill in for fact that can jeopardize or hurt a conviction not transparency (all just IMO).


Before today I personally felt very confident that they must have a good case BUT today especially after (1) they say they are keeping it sealed b/c others are involved - then the defense attorney, who has seen the PCA, saying there is no mention of others involved and (2) The defense attorney pushing for it to be made public. I'm starting to have serious concerns that they might not have a very good case. Hopefully I'm over reacting and hopefully we will get some transparency soon (note people need to understand transparency doesn't mean we need every gruesome detail just some general public information that the state is acting in good faith and competently)

One last thing the prosecution better gosh darn sincerely believe and have some evidence that someone else is involved, and the KAK is related somehow because if not their bumbling incompetence and terrible communication strategy has basically created a really good defense for RA that it’s entirely possible good attorneys could turn into reason doubt in a 50/50 case. (Keep telling myself they can't be that foolish).

 

[photographer4]

You could be right about the underage witnesses... but my first thought when I heard about them was that they could have been out near the CS area and saw something, but were scared witless. They may have seen part of what went down or merely a bloodied up guy hurrying past after the fact.

LE did tell us someone saw something they felt needed to be reported. Notice we didn’t hear who? What? When they came forward?

 

[Pyrite]

Defense attorney is trying to manipulate a potential jury and the public before the trial. This is nothing new and no one should be buying into it. If the PCA remains sealed, he's hoping people will take his word at face value and create reasonable doubt.

Both sides try to manipulate the public. So far we have no idea of the evidence showing RA is the perp. I think everyone should keep an open mind on his guilt until we see at least probable cause. IMO the government side (LE, DA and courts) get it right most of the time but not always.

edit by me to correct now to not

 

[BUF]

Richard Allen defense attorneys on what happened inside Carroll County Courthouse

His lawyer said he is confident that they have the wrong guy after reading the PC and their client looked them in the eye and said he’s innocent…but he also says that they have no discovery or evidence and know little about the case…

 

[Yvettea]

Defendant leaving courthouse:
(WISH TV)

View attachment 381913

Amazingly innocent looking face. Concerned yes but not an outward expression of guilt. Yet I do believe the face looks like BG and bears a resemblance to the old guy sketch especially through the broad lower face.

Welcome @CDH1. Hope you find the group discussion helpful to your understanding.

 

[Prime8]

His lawyer said he is confident that they have the wrong guy after reading the PC and their client looked them in the eye and said he’s innocent…but he also says that they have no discovery or evidence and know little about the case…

Yes, this is the dance that is going to happen the entire pre-trial and trial. I would suggest everyone focus on the evidence that's released and not try to read too much into what the prosecutors or defense attorneys say, they are simply doing what all other lawyers in their position do.

 

[photographer4]

Have a look at what he’s charged with and which subsection of the law was used. Then compare against what they did NOT charge him with. Here is a quote and a link that explains what I’m talking about perhaps more clearly:

“Murder During Another Crime

That background is important as we look toward the charge the docket says Allen actually is facing. It’s verbose, but in some ways it is less complex.

The specific charge being alleged against Allen applies when a defendant:

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal [this involves deviate sexual conduct]), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking

Delphi Suspect Richard Allen Faces Murder Charges with Underlying Offenses, New Court Records Indicate

The suspect in the Delphi Murders is accused of a specific subsection of Indiana's murder statute which involves at least one underlying offense.

lawandcrime.com

They have him for murder but he may have been carrying out some other crime when the deaths occurred. Eg: kidnap or rape etc. he could easily be involved as a kidnapper but someone else carried out the murders.

LE charged with murder but under that subsection they used, it is possible they want to use the seriousness of the penalty it could lead to to pressure him into giving up someone else or others involved.

 

[taylorss]

But, it is all in context, is it not? If I were a criminal defence attorney, I already have an answer for that one.

Interesting comment! What context would you add?

As I see it ….The girls were minors that he had no right or reason to take custody of. they were voluntarily on the bridge when he ordered them “down the hill” (and there may be more to the audio that wasn’t released). Then they failed to turn up at their intended meeting with a parent & were located murdered “down the hill.”

 

[Yvettea]

Meant to mention that a pretty scrawny little dude can do a lot of heavy lifting. Just saying and JMO

 

[agreen36]

So the prosecution and the ISP get to arrest someone, say they've got the guy and let him be tarnished in the media and public court but won't release the most information about WHY they think that and now they are trying to prevent anyone who would access to the information from talking about it and defending said individual in the press?

Ick. This is all icky to me right now. As much as I want to believe that they've got the right guy and he's going to rot in prison, I also want them to convict that person through the proper channels of justice and for the convicted person to have every civil right available to him throughout that process.

Innocent people are released from prison every day. People on death row are released. Hell a few weeks ago we watched an innocent man who had been in prison for a murder he didn't commit since he was teenager get released. I don't know how we can watch these atrocities occur and people here can be so confident in the government and LE and want them to work in private.

 

[taylorss]

Meant to mention that a pretty scrawny little dude can do a lot of heavy lifting. Just saying and JMO

yeah for sure. I have no arm strength at all so I really don’t have a sense of what a normal scrawny little dude would be able to lift.. esp during moments of extreme adrenaline

 

[LammyTheRobot]

RA's defence is at once moving for him to be released on bail AND the supposed evidence against him released to the same public he would be amongst if he were released.

That is a sign right there. IMO. They'd have to be nuts if there was nothing to this set of motions; it isn't jury-spinning, as these are live motions in front of a single judge that if granted could happen immediately (though it doesn't look that way), not in some far-away trial.

Defence lawyers sometimes tell their clients it's best to stay where they are. But not in this case - and they've read the PCA. Unnerving to say the least.

 

[taylorss]

I was trying to think how RA subdued two young girls who were terrified and more agile than I think he was.
Yes he could have threatened one and the other stayed out of love and loyalty to her friend.
But the girls would also know that their only hope was for one of them to run and get help !
So, the possibility of another perp is strong, imo.

Horrid to think of their last moments.

The RL search affidavit suggeted that a gun was involved in the crime somehow, altho not as the murder weapon…. based on that, I assume he held the girls at gunpoint IMO

 

[taylorss]

Amazingly innocent looking face. Concerned yes but not an outward expression of guilt. Yet I do believe the face looks like BG and bears a resemblance to the old guy sketch especially through the broad lower face.

Welcome @CDH1. Hope you find the group discussion helpful to your understanding.

I didn’t like seeing that pic either. Not sure what about it bothered me, maybe it’s what you said….
Moo

 

[SMK777]

Defense pushes for unsealing of affidavit: “He is innocent”

wthr.com/article/news/crime/delphi-girls-murdered/delphi-murders-hearing-richard-allen-defense-attorneys-speak/531-612e9590-ace8-4b93-8f7c-a674228d71c6