Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[Boxer]

That’s right, so we don’t know how the information breakdown occurred. But as the FBI was responsible for data input and operation of their system and were also involved with the Delphi taskforce, surely they know the reason RA was overlooked for so long.

MOO Complex procedures are handled everyday in police and court systems.
Even if the report was lost or missed, they had a phone on the trail that needed to be matched to a name.
RA said he had a phone, unless that was a lie to the CO.

 

[legalmomma]

Richard Allen's defense team requests additional money for his case

On Thursday, the defense attorneys representing Richard “Rick” Allen filed a motion with the court on Thursday requesting additional funding.

www.wrtv.com

In court filings, they ask the judge to approve the addition of an investigator to help sort through dozens of tips.
…
WRTV has requested a copy of the documentation, but it yet to receive it.
…

 

[layer]

Even if the report was lost or missed, they had a phone on the trail that needed to be matched to a name.

Can you expand on that?

 

[newredtabby]

^ very interesting stuff … the part that stuck with me most was where the guest said recognizable extraction marks are more likely to come from long use / misuse than the manufacturer… in light of RA’s gun being 16 years old already at the time of the murders

I wonder how often RA went shooting…. this doesn’t sound like a hunting gun to me but idk much about guns so ??? if not hunting, I guess the only other non-emergency time he’d shoot it would be for sport at a range or at clay pigeons etc, right?

Def NOT a hunting gun. Not really a sport shooting gun either, ammo is expensive. A 40 cal pistol is for stopping humans. That's pretty much all it's good for, and it is VERY good at doing that.

 

[Boxer]

Can you expand on that?

RA told CO while he was on trail he was watching stock sticker on his phone on 2/13/17.
RI the DA at time got a subpoenas for all the phone active in the area.
So there is RA with a phone active near the trail on 2/13/17.
RAs attorney says no police talked to RA at all between RA taking to the CO and 10/22/22.

 

[Snow_In _June]

The Unspent Bullet/Round Bothers Me!

This is why

Presuming the girls were already incapacitated or deceased having been forced down the hill and across a creek by someone presumably pointing a gun at them.

Why would the perpetrator find the need to *advertiser censored*, and cycle his weapon at all? Having got them to the Murder site by just pointing the weapon.

I would have expected any cocking or cycling unspent bullets to occur at the beginning of the girl's ordeal at the South East end of the bridge. The fear element

This Guy must have been a frigging juggling nija.

• Control two girls down a steep hill
• With a gun in his hand
• Whilst navigating the same steep hill himself
• Crossing the same creek
• Getting them up an embankment which he himself has to do (One handed) because he presumably still has the gun in his hand pointing at the girls.
• Then to top it all kill both of the girls with a bladed weapon as per RL (PCA) and they had no obvious signs of a struggle.
• So he swapped the gun for a bladed weapon!
• HOW?

This in my amateur speculative mode leads me to wonder about the following

• As sure as hell swapping from pointing a gun to killing two girls with a bladed object whilst cycling/cocking a gun and dropping an unspent round takes some dexterity.

I am on the side of justice for Libby & Abby. I want their justice to be for the right reasons with the right person/people being held accountable for the right reasons no matter what their involvement.

The Unspent Bullett/Round it’s reported proximity to the bodies irritates me.

I think the word Actor was a very careful word from the prosecution

As always be kind to each other and respect each other's thoughts

SIJ

 

[Boxer]

Def NOT a hunting gun. Not really a sport shooting gun either, ammo is expensive. A 40 cal pistol is for stopping humans. That's pretty much all it's good for, and it is VERY good at doing that.

Plinking with his expensive Sig seems likely.

 

[Boxer]

The Unspent Bullet/Round Bothers Me!

This is why

Presuming the girls were already incapacitated or deceased having been forced down the hill and across a creek by someone presumably pointing a gun at them.

Why would the perpetrator find the need to *advertiser censored*, and cycle his weapon at all? Having got them to the Murder site by just pointing the weapon.

I would have expected any cocking or cycling unspent bullets to occur at the beginning of the girl's ordeal at the South East end of the bridge. The fear element

This Guy must have been a frigging juggling nija.

• Control two girls down a steep hill
• With a gun in his hand
• Whilst navigating the same steep hill himself
• Crossing the same creek
• Getting them up an embankment which he himself has to do (One handed) because he presumably still has the gun in his hand pointing at the girls.
• Then to top it all kill both of the girls with a bladed weapon as per RL (PCA) and they had no obvious signs of a struggle.
• So he swapped the gun for a bladed weapon!
• HOW?

This in my amateur speculative mode leads me to wonder about the following

• As sure as hell swapping from pointing a gun to killing two girls with a bladed object whilst cycling/cocking a gun and dropping an unspent round takes some dexterity.

I am on the side of justice for Libby & Abby. I want their justice to be for the right reasons with the right person/people being held accountable for the right reasons no matter what their involvement.

The Unspent Bullett/Round it’s reported proximity to the bodies irritates me.

MOO forgot he racked it and racked again.

 

[Yvettea]

The Unspent Bullet/Round Bothers Me!

This is why

Presuming the girls were already incapacitated or deceased having been forced down the hill and across a creek by someone presumably pointing a gun at them.

Why would the perpetrator find the need to *advertiser censored*, and cycle his weapon at all? Having got them to the Murder site by just pointing the weapon.

I would have expected any cocking or cycling unspent bullets to occur at the beginning of the girl's ordeal at the South East end of the bridge. The fear element

This Guy must have been a frigging juggling nija.

• Control two girls down a steep hill
• With a gun in his hand
• Whilst navigating the same steep hill himself
• Crossing the same creek
• Getting them up an embankment which he himself has to do (One handed) because he presumably still has the gun in his hand pointing at the girls.
• Then to top it all kill both of the girls with a bladed weapon as per RL (PCA) and they had no obvious signs of a struggle.
• So he swapped the gun for a bladed weapon!
• HOW?

This in my amateur speculative mode leads me to wonder about the following

• As sure as hell swapping from pointing a gun to killing two girls with a bladed object whilst cycling/cocking a gun and dropping an unspent round takes some dexterity.

I am on the side of justice for Libby & Abby. I want their justice to be for the right reasons with the right person/people being held accountable for the right reasons no matter what their involvement.

The Unspent Bullett/Round it’s reported proximity to the bodies irritates me.

Something physical to restrain A&L before they went down the hill?

 

[Bbgiraffe]

“Rick is a 50-year-old man who has never been arrested nor accused of any crime in his entire life,” Allen’s lawyers said. “He is innocent and completely confused as to why he has been charged with these crimes.”

"In the 5+ years since Rick volunteered to provide information to the police, Rick did not get rid of his vehicle or his guns and did not throw out his clothing. He did not alter his appearance; he did not relocate himself to another community. He did what any innocent man would do and continued with his normal routine."

'Rick is innocent': Allen's attorneys release statement questioning evidence

The attorneys representing Richard Allen have released a statement in reaction to the release of the probable cause affidavit earlier this week.

www.wrtv.com

So Richard Allen is either very dumb and very lucky to "get away with" this crime for over 5 years, or he was simply much more clever than the investigators were initially.

LE most likely assumed whoever did this was deep in hiding. Would not come forward and put themselves at the scene because that WOULD be very stupid. So as a result, even though he fit everything in Libby's video he was overlooked and became just another in a pile of 70,000+ tips, long forgotten. Similar to how in Poe's Purloined Letter, the investigators are tearing apart the minister's home, looking behind wallpaper and inside couch cushions for the stolen letter, when it was just out in the open, barely disguised the whole time. Just nobody even thought the minister would be "dumb" enough to leave it out in the open like that.

IMO this is a case where LE assumed too much about the perpetrator's behavior following the crime. LE probably assumed this person would feel shame and not want to associate with the crime, would never come forward even as a "witness" at the bridge that day and if they did, would throw off a whole lot of behavioral cues that would tell LE to look closer at this person. LE probably assumed that even if this person was a Delphi regular, following the crimes they would avoid the area. Also, that the perpetrator would try and drastically change their appearance. By doing none of these things, Richard Allen managed to "outsmart" the police. I think he enjoyed that. I think he enjoys sitting there feigning confusion, saying "well, why would I keep all this stuff if I did it? That would be stupid" knowing the whole time that the entire reason he kept all this stuff was in order to be able to say these lines now.

 

[layer]

RA told CO while he was on trail he was watching stock sticker on his phone on 2/13/17.
RI the DA at time got a subpoenas for all the phone active in the area.
So there is RA with a phone active near the trail on 2/13/17.
RAs attorney says no police talked to RA at all between RA taking to the CO and 10/22/22.

Thanks!
I wonder how accurate such generic phone data would have been, if it could be pinpointed to that specific area etc. I have seen a lot of cases where investigators were working the other direction - "where was so-and-so's phone at this time and date?" But I am unfamiliar with it working this way - "give me a list of all the phones on all the providors that were at this location on this date and time." Given the location variables and the popularity of burner phones and pre-paids, it just seems like an impossible task, a shot in the dark at best.

But I know next to nothing about cell location data, so...

 

[FromGermany1]

The Unspent Bullet/Round Bothers Me!

This is why

Presuming the girls were already incapacitated or deceased having been forced down the hill and across a creek by someone presumably pointing a gun at them.

Why would the perpetrator find the need to *advertiser censored*, and cycle his weapon at all? Having got them to the Murder site by just pointing the weapon.

I would have expected any cocking or cycling unspent bullets to occur at the beginning of the girl's ordeal at the South East end of the bridge. The fear element

This Guy must have been a frigging juggling nija.

• Control two girls down a steep hill
• With a gun in his hand
• Whilst navigating the same steep hill himself
• Crossing the same creek
• Getting them up an embankment which he himself has to do (One handed) because he presumably still has the gun in his hand pointing at the girls.
• Then to top it all kill both of the girls with a bladed weapon as per RL (PCA) and they had no obvious signs of a struggle.
• So he swapped the gun for a bladed weapon!
• HOW?

This in my amateur speculative mode leads me to wonder about the following

• As sure as hell swapping from pointing a gun to killing two girls with a bladed object whilst cycling/cocking a gun and dropping an unspent round takes some dexterity.

I am on the side of justice for Libby & Abby. I want their justice to be for the right reasons with the right person/people being held accountable for the right reasons no matter what their involvement.

The Unspent Bullett/Round it’s reported proximity to the bodies irritates me.

I think the word Actor was a very careful word from the prosecution

As always be kind to each other and respect each other's thoughts

SIJ

IF there was someone waiting down the hill to participate in the murderous crime, the two-weapons-problem and when to hold which wouldn't have been existent ......

 

[Jade]

The Unspent Bullet/Round Bothers Me!

This is why

Presuming the girls were already incapacitated or deceased having been forced down the hill and across a creek by someone presumably pointing a gun at them.

Why would the perpetrator find the need to *advertiser censored*, and cycle his weapon at all? Having got them to the Murder site by just pointing the weapon.

I would have expected any cocking or cycling unspent bullets to occur at the beginning of the girl's ordeal at the South East end of the bridge. The fear element

This Guy must have been a frigging juggling nija.

• Control two girls down a steep hill
• With a gun in his hand
• Whilst navigating the same steep hill himself
• Crossing the same creek
• Getting them up an embankment which he himself has to do (One handed) because he presumably still has the gun in his hand pointing at the girls.
• Then to top it all kill both of the girls with a bladed weapon as per RL (PCA) and they had no obvious signs of a struggle.
• So he swapped the gun for a bladed weapon!
• HOW?

This in my amateur speculative mode leads me to wonder about the following

• As sure as hell swapping from pointing a gun to killing two girls with a bladed object whilst cycling/cocking a gun and dropping an unspent round takes some dexterity.

I am on the side of justice for Libby & Abby. I want their justice to be for the right reasons with the right person/people being held accountable for the right reasons no matter what their involvement.

The Unspent Bullett/Round it’s reported proximity to the bodies irritates me.

I think the word Actor was a very careful word from the prosecution

As always be kind to each other and respect each other's thoughts

SIJ

It’s thought that he used the sound of the chambering of the gun to scare them to go down the hill.

It’s been said he used their love for each other to his advantage so he probably only had to aim towards one or hold on to one and the other wasn’t leaving her.

Since he had it chambered after it was all over he ejected it to carry it concealed?

It may have been part of his staging. Thought it was cute to leave it between the bodies.

Could have dropped unnoticed out of his pocket as he was moving around the cs.



I don’t think it is all that unusual to have evidence left at the scene of a double murder. In the Beasley and Hawlett case a bullet casing was with the bodies in the trunk where it probably fell unnoticed.





[I’m sure I’m using the wrong gun terms as I know nothing of them but the word I want to use is censored]

Imo

 

[JenniD]

The unspent bullet located between the bodies- my thought is while the bodies were being “posed” it dropped out of his pocket. MOO

 

[Snow_In _June]

It’s thought that he used the sound of the chambering of the gun to scare them to go down the hill.

It’s been said he used their love for each other to his advantage so he probably only had to aim towards one or hold on to one and the other wasn’t leaving her.

Since he had it chambered after it was all over he ejected it to carry it concealed?

It may have been part of his staging. Thought it was cute to leave it between the bodies.

Could have dropped unnoticed out of his pocket as he was moving around the cs.



I don’t think it is all that unusual to have evidence left at the scene of a double murder. In the Beasley and Hawlett case a bullet casing was with the bodies in the trunk where it probably fell unnoticed.





[I’m sure I’m using the wrong gun terms as I know nothing of them but the word I want to use is censored]

Imo

It’s thought that he used the sound of the chambering of the gun to scare them to go down the hill.



That's my point

 

[layer]

Since he had it chambered after it was all over he ejected it to carry it concealed?

That makes very little sense to me. The vast majority of people that carry concealed, good guys and bad guys, have a round in the chamber unless it's a revolver. Having a gun that is ready to fire is kind of the whole point. An over-abundance of caution doesn't fit in with what all this perp just did.

I'm also not buying in to the "rack it to intimidate" idea. If holding a gun and a knife on me isn't already intimidating, then I don't expect racking the gun to add any additional threat.

So what does that leave?
Placed there to make some kind of statement. Maybe? Strikes me as a strange idea, but then you can't argue with a sick mind.

Dropped by accident in the confusion of killing, moving, and staging. IF I had to pick one, I'd go with that.

 

[sloww_buurnnn]

It’s thought that he used the sound of the chambering of the gun to scare them to go down the hill.



That's my point

That’s what I’ve been leaning towards too. No way he would’ve used a gun to kill them either. Everyone in the park would’ve heard that.

 

[Vaderman]

Zip ties to restrain A&L before they went down the hill?

That actually makes a lot of sense. I've already referenced the Jayme Closs case before, but during the abduction, the perpetrator pointed his gun at her mother and forced her to tie up her daughter.

I could envision a similar scenario in which one of the girls is forced to tie up the other while being held at gun point. Once one is restrains, he restrains the other one.

 

[al66pine]

RA's SHOOTING HISTORY? EXTRACTION MARKS?

recognizable extraction marks are more likely to come from long use / misuse than the manufacturer… in light of RA’s gun being 16 years old already at the time of the murders
I wonder how often RA went shooting…. ???

snipped for focus. @taylorss Interesting points.
As to extraction marks, imo difficult to know how much that gun was used or whether misused.
1. RA's gun was 16 y/o at time of murders. Or conceivably older. IIRC gun's serial # is not public, so we cannot yet figure when manuf'ed. If RA was not first owner, could have had a lot of use/misuse prior to his purchase and maybe since.
2. Frequency of use by RA or potentially by prior owner? Some people go a range weekly ($range fees$ and/or $annual membership fee$?), others monthly, annually or possibly never. Or shoot at freebie location, like own backyard.
3. People may shoot a 50 or 100 round box thru each gun each time (ammo gets $pricey$) or may fire off only one magazine once a year.

Do we know mag. capacity(ies) of that SigSauer?

BTW, if a gun buyer only intends to use it the way RA apparently did in this instance --- that is, brandishing gun to intimidate/control others close by, possibly to shoot at, what, arm's length, or 10 - 20 feet distance, then not much range time is needed for shooting accuracy, imo.

 

[layer]

Do we know mag. capacity(ies) of that SigSauer?

12 rounds is the standard capacity for a P226 in 40.