Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[TL4S]

Why is it so hard to believe RA after alone?

He has admitted literally everything apart from the actual murders here.

I do not find it hard to believe that RA acted alone in the murders. In fact, I think he did.

What he admitted to was being at the trails and bridge from 1:30 to 3:30, which is nearly the exact same time frame in which the girls knew they would be there between getting dropped off and picked up. He was witnessed standing on the bridge within minutes before the girls got there, and apparently stayed near the bridge until the girls were halfway across. This element of perfect timing is what makes me suspect that RA knew the girls would be there. Could it be random? Of course, but combined with his behavior towards the other juvenile witnesses, him apparently having a gun and/or other weapons on his person, and the way he parked his vehicle, collectively start to look like he was there with purpose. That purpose could have been to just kill someone at random, but then I circle back to the coincidentally precise timing.

Now, even if I take out the fact that L was being simultaneously catfished by a now accused CSAM perpetrator, I would have to ask myself how the hell could RA have known they would be there at that exact time? With L's known pattern of SM behavior, including posting their location on SC and communicating with strangers, I have to acknowledge that their killer might have been watching them online. A lot of folks here suggested this very early on, just based on their own teenagers' SM behavior, and "experts" along the way have suggested this based on their experience working similar cases. I didn't believe it early on, but as more details emerged, it was definitely something I knew I needed to consider.

If RA did happen to know they would be there, then sure, RA could have been following them online, even catfishing them, all on his own, with no connection to KAK or anyone else. But LE and NMcL have stated, as recently as a month ago, that they believe others are involved. I know people are tired of me saying that, but it is what it is. If their perspective has changed, we won't know it until the gag order has been lifted, or a trial happens. But one way or another, NMcL will have to explain these statements to the court, or they will have no case.

All that said, even if others are involved, we really don't know what that means. This is where speculation can go wild. IMO, it doesn't have to mean anyone else was on the scene that day, in person, or even involved in a grand scheme of planning. I do think RA acted alone in the murders. As in, he was alone with them in the woods that day. But what if an online user connected RA to L via CSAM channels, or what if photos and/or videos were shared before, during, or after the murders, and not reported, or any other similar scenario? Does that not constitute some level of involvement by another that should make that person accountable to what resulted in two deaths?

 

[Salah11]

I do not find it hard to believe that RA acted alone in the murders. In fact, I think he did.

What he admitted to was being at the trails and bridge from 1:30 to 3:30, which is nearly the exact same time frame in which the girls knew they would be there between getting dropped off and picked up. He was witnessed standing on the bridge within minutes before the girls got there, and apparently stayed near the bridge until the girls were halfway across. This element of perfect timing is what makes me suspect that RA knew the girls would be there. Could it be random? Of course, but combined with his behavior towards the other juvenile witnesses, him apparently having a gun and/or other weapons on his person, and the way he parked his vehicle, collectively start to look like he was there with purpose. That purpose could have been to just kill someone at random, but then I circle back to the coincidentally precise timing.

Now, even if I take out the fact that L was being simultaneously catfished by a now accused CSAM perpetrator, I would have to ask myself how the hell could RA have known they would be there at that exact time? With L's known pattern of SM behavior, including posting their location on SC and communicating with strangers, I have to acknowledge that their killer might have been watching them online. A lot of folks here suggested this very early on, just based on their own teenagers' SM behavior, and "experts" along the way have suggested this based on their experience working similar cases. I didn't believe it early on, but as more details emerged, it was definitely something I knew I needed to consider.

If RA did happen to know they would be there, then sure, RA could have been following them online, even catfishing them, all on his own, with no connection to KAK or anyone else. But LE and NMcL have stated, as recently as a month ago, that they believe others are involved. I know people are tired of me saying that, but it is what it is. If their perspective has changed, we won't know it until the gag order has been lifted, or a trial happens. But one way or another, NMcL will have to explain these statements to the court, or they will have no case.

All that said, even if others are involved, we really don't know what that means. This is where speculation can go wild. IMO, it doesn't have to mean anyone else was on the scene that day, in person, or even involved in a grand scheme of planning. I do think RA acted alone in the murders. As in, he was alone with them in the woods that day. But what if an online user connected RA to L via CSAM channels, or what if photos and/or videos were shared before, during, or after the murders, and not reported, or any other similar scenario? Does that not constitute some level of involvement by another that should make that person accountable to what resulted in two deaths?

What makes you believe he knew they was going to be there?

 

[arielilane]

I do not find it hard to believe that RA acted alone in the murders. In fact, I think he did.

What he admitted to was being at the trails and bridge from 1:30 to 3:30, which is nearly the exact same time frame in which the girls knew they would be there between getting dropped off and picked up. He was witnessed standing on the bridge within minutes before the girls got there, and apparently stayed near the bridge until the girls were halfway across. This element of perfect timing is what makes me suspect that RA knew the girls would be there. Could it be random? Of course, but combined with his behavior towards the other juvenile witnesses, him apparently having a gun and/or other weapons on his person, and the way he parked his vehicle, collectively start to look like he was there with purpose. That purpose could have been to just kill someone at random, but then I circle back to the coincidentally precise timing.

Now, even if I take out the fact that L was being simultaneously catfished by a now accused CSAM perpetrator, I would have to ask myself how the hell could RA have known they would be there at that exact time? With L's known pattern of SM behavior, including posting their location on SC and communicating with strangers, I have to acknowledge that their killer might have been watching them online. A lot of folks here suggested this very early on, just based on their own teenagers' SM behavior, and "experts" along the way have suggested this based on their experience working similar cases. I didn't believe it early on, but as more details emerged, it was definitely something I knew I needed to consider.

If RA did happen to know they would be there, then sure, RA could have been following them online, even catfishing them, all on his own, with no connection to KAK or anyone else. But LE and NMcL have stated, as recently as a month ago, that they believe others are involved. I know people are tired of me saying that, but it is what it is. If their perspective has changed, we won't know it until the gag order has been lifted, or a trial happens. But one way or another, NMcL will have to explain these statements to the court, or they will have no case.

All that said, even if others are involved, we really don't know what that means. This is where speculation can go wild. IMO, it doesn't have to mean anyone else was on the scene that day, in person, or even involved in a grand scheme of planning. I do think RA acted alone in the murders. As in, he was alone with them in the woods that day. But what if an online user connected RA to L via CSAM channels, or what if photos and/or videos were shared before, during, or after the murders, and not reported, or any other similar scenario? Does that not constitute some level of involvement by another that should make that person accountable to what resulted in two deaths?

Yes, agree with your post. BBM, this is what LE I believe is trying to find a link to. An online connection to how RA knew Libby would be on the trails that day. Who is the source responsible? How did RA know to go to the trails that day, who or what site clued him in? The timing seemed too perfect. MOO

 

[Salah11]

Yes, agree with your post. BBM, this is what LE I believe is trying to find a link to. An online connection to how RA knew Libby would be on the trails that day. Who is the source responsible? How did RA know to go to the trails that day, who or what site clued him in? The timing seemed too perfect. MOO

At the moment there is no sign he knew. For anybody knows he had these sick plans for years and was simply biding his time and that afternoon a chance presented itself.

 

[MichMan015]

Just looking at all that has gone on since RA arrest and discussion of multiple perps. Some of it sounds like more than just coincidence. A couple questions:
Since LE only found out about Libby and A. Shots using the app Yellow late, what is the likely hood some yet unnamed app could have have been the communication path that KK used to communicate with other pervs, like RA?
These apps must not have been on Libbys phone since the reset but were removed from KK phone and not known to the police until recently, are there other apps? They may not have even known each other.
I would think that RA’s phone would be clean as he mostly likely would get a burner phone at CVS or anywhere.
I am not familiar with “drop box” can multiple people be associated to KK through this. Is it so secure they are unidentified?
I can’t help but think if a knife was used the perp must have really been filled with some rage to attack with such a personal one on one attack.
Also I have always felt like the picture Libby took of Abby says”okay here we are we said we would be here on the bridge and we are.
I also do not think RL was involved but I cannot fit how he would ask for an alibi for the time he did. —-very strange-there is something missing about this, in my opinion.

MichMan015

 

[Warwick1991]

Just looking at all that has gone on since RA arrest and discussion of multiple perps. Some of it sounds like more than just coincidence. A couple questions:
Since LE only found out about Libby and A. Shots using the app Yellow late, what is the likely hood some yet unnamed app could have have been the communication path that KK used to communicate with other pervs, like RA?
These apps must not have been on Libbys phone since the reset but were removed from KK phone and not known to the police until recently, are there other apps? They may not have even known each other.
I would think that RA’s phone would be clean as he mostly likely would get a burner phone at CVS or anywhere.
I am not familiar with “drop box” can multiple people be associated to KK through this. Is it so secure they are unidentified?
I can’t help but think if a knife was used the perp must have really been filled with some rage to attack with such a personal one on one attack.
Also I have always felt like the picture Libby took of Abby says”okay here we are we said we would be here on the bridge and we are.
I also do not think RL was involved but I cannot fit how he would ask for an alibi for the time he did. —-very strange-there is something missing about this, in my opinion.

MichMan015

BBM. I think RL had a bad reputation with LE due to DUIs and prior alcohol-driven DV or violent incidents. IMO, he may have seen the bodies on his property, but was afraid to call LE - he was afraid he'd be blamed for the murders. Hence the alibi.

 

[TL4S]

What makes you believe he knew they was going to be there?

I don't really have a definitive answer to that because I don't have hardly any of the evidence. I guess for me it's a lot about the timing. BP has stated that the girls asked to go to the bridge around 1pm, they left between 1:30 and 1:40, and that DG had told them he'd pick them up between 3 and 3:30pm. RA told the CO he was there from 1:30 and 3:30, which is exactly the time frame the girls knew they would be there. If L posted pics of them on the bridge, how likely might she have posted somewhere or communicated to someone that they were heading to the bridge right after they were told they could go? If she did that between 1 and 1:15, that could have given anyone in the Delphi area more than enough time to get there right before them.

Additionally, RA was witnessed on the bridge only minutes before the girls got there, yet he was nowhere in their bridge photos, which meant he reentered the bridge once they were over halfway across. Clearly, he had hid or waited around somewhere nearby, or walked back up the trail a bit and then returned to the bridge.

It could be purely coincidence that his timing paralleled theirs so perfectly that day. He could have wanted to kill at random, so he went to the trails with his gun and/or other weapons, face covered, parked oddly, strolled along checking out his stock ticker and fish, and since the other juvenile girls he saw were more out in the open, he thought he'd head to the bridge to see if he could corner anyone there alone. I just honestly find the odds of that even longer than the odds of an online connection when L already had an online connection with a_shots.

JMO, and I respect that many others do not agree.

 

[Gemmie]

In any way. Talking, nodding, and certainly any material or support etc.

MOO his house is 1/4 mile away from the CS, through trees were bare the forest floor was a blanket of sound dampening leaf fall, as well as being by a creek, it seem ms too far to hear a yell or two, especially if RL was in his house.

I totally agree. I have great hearing. I live next to a greenspace. Someone heard the loud sounds of a cougar attacking its prey right next to my house. Did I hear it? Newp. I did not. And I was at home, and awake at the time it went down, and in the room next to where it happened (so closest to the area). So I think it's entirely possible he did not hear a thing if he was inside. Outside? Maybe.

 

[Salah11]

I don't really have a definitive answer to that because I don't have hardly any of the evidence. I guess for me it's a lot about the timing. BP has stated that the girls asked to go to the bridge around 1pm, they left between 1:30 and 1:40, and that DG had told them he'd pick them up between 3 and 3:30pm. RA told the CO he was there from 1:30 and 3:30, which is exactly the time frame the girls knew they would be there. If L posted pics of them on the bridge, how likely might she have posted somewhere or communicated to someone that they were heading to the bridge right after they were told they could go? If she did that between 1 and 1:15, that could have given anyone in the Delphi area more than enough time to get there right before them.

Additionally, RA was witnessed on the bridge only minutes before the girls got there, yet he was nowhere in their bridge photos, which meant he reentered the bridge once they were over halfway across. Clearly, he had hid or waited around somewhere nearby, or walked back up the trail a bit and then returned to the bridge.

It could be purely coincidence that his timing paralleled theirs so perfectly that day. He could have wanted to kill at random, so he went to the trails with his gun and/or other weapons, face covered, parked oddly, strolled along checking out his stock ticker and fish, and since the other juvenile girls he saw were more out in the open, he thought he'd head to the bridge to see if he could corner anyone there alone. I just honestly find the odds of that even longer than the odds of an online connection when L already had an online connection with a_shots.

JMO, and I respect that many others do not agree.

I always go to back to the fact Libby invited her sister that afternoon so I just do not believe she had plans to meet a boy that afternoon.


I just think RA is such a amateur that this can’t have been planned fully. He made a million mistakes and then placed himself at the crime scene. To me he seems like a sad little man who felt emasculated by his wife and had fantasy’s for years and finally that day it clicked into place. He had probably thought that was a good spot for awhile and had been there on the off chance before , watching and waiting.


IMO

 

[Gemmie]

Why is it so hard to believe RA acted alone?

He has admitted literally everything apart from the actual murders here.

I guess my question is Why is it so hard to believe there could be others involved? Especially since LE has said this case is complex with tentacles. Tentacles makes me think of more than 1 person. Also, they are continuing their investigation. It's not over with the arrest of RMA.

“This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

Carter says Richard Allen is the man charged with the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but detectives will continue to investigate anyone who may have a connection to the case – that includes Kegan Kline.

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

 

[TL4S]

I always go to back to the fact Libby invited her sister that afternoon so I just do not believe she had plans to meet a boy that afternoon.


I just think RA is such a amateur that this can’t have been planned fully. He made a million mistakes and then placed himself at the crime scene. To me he seems like a sad little man who felt emasculated by his wife and had fantasy’s for years and finally that day it clicked into place. He had probably thought that was a good spot for awhile and had been there on the off chance before , watching and waiting.


IMO

Yeah, I agree that the girls likely didn't plan to meet anyone at the bridge. In a way, it did feel unplanned, and I think it was. In my view, RA was looking for an opportunity, like you said, but that opportunity might have come when he found out, possibly online, that they were heading for the bridge alone. He only had enough time to grab his gun and shove it in his pocket, quickly drive to the trails, not worrying about better, more hidden parking, and scope out a spot from atop the bridge before they got there.

He admitted to using his phone while on the trail, which was between 1:30 and 3:30. If he was out to see if he could find someone to kill, would scrolling around on his phone and glaring at young girls be normal for him in that moment? IDK... maybe it would. Or maybe that online activity is another indicator of his stalking someone online.

 

[Boxer]

Yeah, I agree that the girls likely didn't plan to meet anyone at the bridge. In a way, it did feel unplanned, and I think it was. In my view, RA was looking for an opportunity, like you said, but that opportunity might have come when he found out, possibly online, that they were heading for the bridge alone. He only had enough time to grab his gun and shove it in his pocket, quickly drive to the trails, not worrying about better, more hidden parking, and scope out a spot from atop the bridge before they got there.

He admitted to using his phone while on the trail, which was between 1:30 and 3:30. If he was out to see if he could find someone to kill, would scrolling around on his phone and glaring at young girls be normal for him in that moment? IDK... maybe it would. Or maybe that online activity is another indicator of his stalking someone online.

Unfortunately for unraveling things, teens are able to ask people places they know the person will say no to. In fact they excel at it.

 

[Salah11]

I guess my question is Why is it so hard to believe there could be others involved? Especially since LE has said this case is complex with tentacles. Tentacles makes me think of more than 1 person. Also, they are continuing their investigation. It's not over with the arrest of RMA.

“This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

Carter says Richard Allen is the man charged with the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but detectives will continue to investigate anyone who may have a connection to the case – that includes Kegan Kline.

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

Because that quote is literally years out of date. Just because they believed something 5 years ago doesn’t mean it holds true in 2022 imo

They obviously went back to the beginning hence why RA flagged. So I don’t believe their leads planned out and things changed.

IMO

 

[TheBishop]

It’s not a conspiracy. iIf you choose to believe he was trying to avoid a dui even though his false alibi didn’t relate to that at all, that’s your choice. His alibi had nothing to do with his driving that day.

I am not convinced RL had anything to do with Libby & Abby’s death, but him asking for an alibi for when they were killed at 9a on 2/14 is suspicious.

Suspicious, I agree, but there is nothing to indicate he had any interest in underage girls or violence against children. He could have been threatened to keep quiet if he stumbled across the murderer all bloodied and just wanted to distance himself.

 

[tlcya]

My KISS theory on this one right now with the facts we have at this moment. RA acted alone. He had no foreknowledge of the girls' plan to be there but was well aware school was out and this was a popular area for kids to be. He was out and about that day looking for opportunity or opportunity simply presented itself in the girls.
I do not believe any others were involved in some conspiracy with him to lure the girls there. I believe they were random targets that happened to be there at a time and place he felt he could get away with acting on his more twisted impulses.

 

[TheBishop]

I don't really have a definitive answer to that because I don't have hardly any of the evidence. I guess for me it's a lot about the timing. BP has stated that the girls asked to go to the bridge around 1pm, they left between 1:30 and 1:40, and that DG had told them he'd pick them up between 3 and 3:30pm. RA told the CO he was there from 1:30 and 3:30, which is exactly the time frame the girls knew they would be there. If L posted pics of them on the bridge, how likely might she have posted somewhere or communicated to someone that they were heading to the bridge right after they were told they could go? If she did that between 1 and 1:15, that could have given anyone in the Delphi area more than enough time to get there right before them.

Additionally, RA was witnessed on the bridge only minutes before the girls got there, yet he was nowhere in their bridge photos, which meant he reentered the bridge once they were over halfway across. Clearly, he had hid or waited around somewhere nearby, or walked back up the trail a bit and then returned to the bridge.

It could be purely coincidence that his timing paralleled theirs so perfectly that day. He could have wanted to kill at random, so he went to the trails with his gun and/or other weapons, face covered, parked oddly, strolled along checking out his stock ticker and fish, and since the other juvenile girls he saw were more out in the open, he thought he'd head to the bridge to see if he could corner anyone there alone. I just honestly find the odds of that even longer than the odds of an online connection when L already had an online connection with a_shots.

JMO, and I respect that many others do not agree.

Yes, all possible. If he was waiting for random prey to become trapped on the bridge then I would put money on him having killed before. A first time chancer surely would have waited for a lone victim...

 

[Prime8]

I guess my question is Why is it so hard to believe there could be others involved? Especially since LE has said this case is complex with tentacles. Tentacles makes me think of more than 1 person. Also, they are continuing their investigation. It's not over with the arrest of RMA.

“This case is unlikely any that I’ve seen in an almost 40-year career,” Superintendent Carter tells WIBC’s Hammer & Nigel, “there are so many different tentacles to this. Its very complex.”

Carter says Richard Allen is the man charged with the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but detectives will continue to investigate anyone who may have a connection to the case – that includes Kegan Kline.

A "Complex" Case - ISP Superintendent Doug Carter Talks Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, "Police Sources" & What You Should Be Allowed to Know

DELPHI, Ind. -- Richard Allen, Kegan Kline, public documents and "police sources" - Superintendent Doug Carter with Indiana State Police covered it all when discussing the 2017 Delphi murders investigation Tuesday.

wibc.com

My issue with all the RL talk about him being involved is that it seems to revolve mainly around him asking his cousin for an alibi. RL asking for an alibi, IMO, is not strange, out of the ordinary or even bizarre. A man who commits a lot of crimes on a regular basis found himself in the middle of a search for missing girls, so he decided to cover his butt - this happens all the time when people talk to LE.

If LE laid out a scenario that had everyone ever named in this case being involved, I could believe it as we've all been speculating on this case for almost 6 years and it turns out the person they arrested for it, that they had been searching for, had already confessed shortly after the crime to being there but no one in charge knew that. Anything is possible but there needs to be some solid information behind in for me to believe it.

 

[TheVisual]

My KISS theory on this one right now with the facts we have at this moment. RA acted alone. He had no foreknowledge of the girls' plan to be there but was well aware school was out and this was a popular area for kids to be. He was out and about that day looking for opportunity or opportunity simply presented itself in the girls.
I do not believe any others were involved in some conspiracy with him to lure the girls there. I believe they were random targets that happened to be there at a time and place he felt he could get away with acting on his more twisted impulses.

Good to see you back Ticya. I wish some of the older interested ones like WebSight, Skibaboo, Mpnola, Liltexans, NIN, Margarita25, Gregjrichards were here to add to this board.

 

[arielilane]

At the moment there is no sign he knew. For anybody knows he had these sick plans for years and was simply biding his time and that afternoon a chance presented itself.

I would agree but we don't know all of what LE know and LE still need to check all the boxes and not assume. Yes, it's a known fact that these type of sickos will spend years fantasizing about what they want to do in hopes of indulging in their sick fantasy one day.

 

[Boxer]

Because that quote is literally years out of date. Just because they believed something 5 years ago doesn’t mean it holds true in 2022 imo

They obviously went back to the beginning hence why RA flagged. So I don’t believe their leads planned out and things changed.

IMO

They went back, was the report a paper report put on a counter somewhere?