IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[SerialGal]

Ha, this ruling is significant in more ways than one. Obviously RA’s mental health assessments did not confirm a deteriorating state at this facility, as the defence had alleged. Which also means it’s unlikely they can use poor mental health at this facility to refute the 5 or 6 confessions RA previously made by phone to his wife (and mother?). JMO

Very good point on refuting confessions. IMO he knows what he’s trying to accomplish and I hope it continues to fail.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Ha, this ruling is significant in more ways than one. Obviously RA’s mental health assessments did not confirm a deteriorating state at this facility, as the defence had alleged. Which also means it’s unlikely they can use poor mental health at this facility to refute the 5 or 6 confessions RA previously made by phone to his wife (and mother?). JMO

Yes I thought this was significant too, for the reasons you mention.
To me, it looks like RA’s defense team was truly rocked by finding out he had confessed in his own words on a recorded phone call. Irrefutable. The motion claiming mental issues and mistreatment was desperate and misguided. We now know the defense team is completely OK with concocting total fantasy to get RA off. Their only hope now is to get every piece of evidence thrown out, which of course, they are trying. Better that they should negotiate a plea deal.

 

[somequestions]

That's always bothered me, too. I know the girls were likely going slower due to it being A's first time crossing the bridge, taking photos, etc., but they seemed to be moving at almost half the pace as the killer, who really was likely moving at about normal pace according to people who have videoed themselves going across.

If we consider for a second that LE gave us the closest image of bridge guy and that the closest image is approximately 70 feet away, we can do some estimation of time.

I walked 70 feet leisurely in about 21 seconds on flat ground. I know this can vary based on how each of us walks and the speed. There are about 2 seconds of the bridge guy video. Out of the 43 second video that leaves about 20 seconds for the killer to pull the gun and then move them off the end of the bridge down the hill. This does not include the video time before the bridge guy got within 70 feet.

My guess is that Liberty German only got about 5-10 seconds of video of bridge guy at most, and the public got to see the last 2 seconds of that video to help with a description.

 

[FromGermany1]

Developing Film & Cameras at CVS in 2023: Should You Do It?

Discover about the services offered by CVS for developing your cherished film rolls and disposable cameras and whether it's is the right option for you.

shotkit.com

Want to post it during "digesting" of another case (LI-crimes/Gilgo4), because I just thought, the photoprocessing angle of CVS may have been an opportunity for RA, to come insidiously in contact with like-minded people (p**n, t*rt*re and so on).

 

[Falling Down]

LE has stated that the girls took other photos and videos before the 2:13 BG video, so we do know that. But LE cannot just say what they want in the PCAs without being factual. This is what they say:

The video recovered from Victim 2's iphone shows Victim 1 walking southeast on the Monon High Bridge while male subject wearing dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victims mentions, "gun". Near the end of the video male is seen and heard telling the girls, "Guys, Down the hill." The girls then begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends.

They further believe he was carrying the Sig Sauer Model P226 from the audio from Victim 2’s video in which investigators believe they hear the sound of a gun being cycled and one of the victims ‘mentioning a “gun.” Investigators believe after that time Victim 1 and Victim 2 were removed from the bridge by Richard Allen to where their murders occurred.

IMO, these are details we can't really dispute. LE knows the exact sequence of events because it was all on that 43 second video. He approaches them, chambers his gun, one of the girls mentions "gun," and he tells them "Guys, down the hill," where they go right before the video ends. It's just my personal belief that A could not have been behind him, passed him, then gotten in front of him at that distance, right by L, then him approach them, and them head down the hill, all in 43 seconds. JMO.

IMO the 60-70 feet away where BG is in a 1.5 sec. video, could have been covered by BG in less than half the time of the :43 video.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I agree, so frustrating. I think the tech aspect of this case had LE believing this was someone that was from outside the immediate area, a non-local. RA was right there looking like a sheep as we commonly find out is truly a wolf. I think he went there that day as he had done many days looking for the right victim. There was no need for HIM to have a gun or a knife for protection. The trail was filled with many possible victims. My heart breaks for these families and this community. I pray we get the rightful conviction and if there are any other parties involved, pre/post crime, that they are hunted down just like these girls were.

Here's where I'm at, everything screamed "LOCAL" from the word go. But somehow, some way, LE was convinced BG could be from outside the area.

Regular gum shoe detective work would have led to an arrest early on.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

If BG was behind Libby, Abby could see him approaching Libby from behind, is there anything to read in Abby's expression, not embarrassment but trying to telegraph a message discreetly to Libby? He's behind you.

Then BG walks past Libby, walks past Abby, turns around behind Abby, at which point Abby and Libby are very close together now (as BG was walking one direction, Abby was also walking, toward Libby who was stationary).... shortly after passing Abby he turns around behind her and says is he behind me?...

In this way he would have successfully rounded them up, herded as it were. He needed then close together for one command to suffice. Quite possibly he cocked the gun, almost in tandem with the girls seeing it and gained control of one girl, while training the gun on the other.

Girl 1 isn't going to anything to provoke BG if there's a gun aimed at her bff. And Girl 2 isn't going comply because he has possession of her bff.

I think the full video will show how methodical he was and how he orchestrated it toward the moment he secured full control.

Now he's got one under physical control and one, with a weapon aimed at her, both girls forced to comply to protect the other....

Jmo

I think, as long as he wasn't again behind Abby on the bridge, he had to pretend being a harmless walker and only standing/moving there and have a "friendly" look on the girls, who just took a photograph (perhaps only for also pretending to be harmless!). BG had to look in direction of Abby (Libby) at least for a moment; that explains her expression to me, which in my eyes doesn't show fear (not yet). I think, BG just hadn't turned back, but did it now after this pic. His dangerous attitude he had to spare for that moment, when he would be back on the bridge behind Abby and turned his direction for the second time.
All my imagination and speculation!
(But quite convinced, I admit.)

 

[FrostedGlass]

The official word:

07/19/2023

Order Issued The Court, having had this matter under advisement following a hearing, and having considered the evidence and the arguments of Counsel, now finds as follows: Defendant is currently incarcerated in the Westville Correctional Facility under a "safekeeping order" issued November 3, 2022. The Court Order states that the Court "FINDS that Defendant is an inmate awaiting trial and is in imminent danger of serious bodily injury or death, or represents a substantial threat to the safety of others." The evidence presented at the hearing on defendant's Motion to Reconsider did not support many of the allegations advanced by defendant counsel. In fact, the evidence presented demonstrated that the Defendant is treated more favorably than other inmates housed at the Westville Correctional Facility. In light of the evidence presented, the Court has reconsidered the original Safekeeping Order and finds it is reasonable and necessary to ensure the defendant's safety and to prevent serious bodily injury to himself. The Department of Correction has provided, and will continue to provide Defendant with the necessarily medical services, including any mental health services. If the Department of Correction believes a facility other than Westville is more appropriate, or more convenient for Counsel, the Court is confident that the Department of Correction will move the defendant accordingly. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 07/19/2023

 

[girlhasnoname]

07/19/2023

Order Issued The Court, having reviewed the Indiana Department of Correction's Motion to Quash Subpoena or Enter Protective Order, now finds that Defendant's request is unreasonable and oppressive, and beyond the scope of discovery. The Court, therefore, quashes the Subpoena and Request for Production to Non-Party issued by Counsel in May 19, 2023. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 07/18/2023

Thank goodness the Judge was able to see through the pathetic attempt of RA's mentally unstable claim. By all accounts, RA had done reasonably fine from Nov (?) until March/April when he got served with the State's evidence against him and then blabbed to his wife and mother on a recorded line.

It always seemed a little too convenient for me.

MOO

 

[Justice101]

Judges aren't idiots. Lawyers/prosecutors pulling punches trying "legal tricks" usually doesn't work.

 

[TL4S]

Thank goodness the Judge was able to see through the pathetic attempt of RA's mentally unstable claim. By all accounts, RA had done reasonably fine from Nov (?) until March/April when he got served with the State's evidence against him and then blabbed to his wife and mother on a recorded line.

It always seemed a little too convenient for me.

MOO

To some extent, RA probably is mentally unstable. He did, after all, murder two young girls (allegedly). His episode of eating his paperwork and such might have been faked, or not, but it seems the IDOC has proven their case that no matter his mental state, they can provide, their treatment is fair, and his being there is not the cause of any mental health issues that might exist. IMO, this order is not about determining the true condition of RA's mental health, it's about the ability of Westville to provide appropriate care. JMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

<snipped & BBM>

Gull, who was assigned from out-of-county to preside over Allen’s case, issued an order Wednesday denying the safekeeping order filed by attorneys Rozzi and Baldwin.

While the attorneys had argued that Allen was being treated “less favorably” than convicted criminals, Gull said she has found the opposite to be true.

“The evidence presented at the hearing on defendant’s Motion to Reconsider did not support many of the allegations advanced by defendant counsel,” Gull wrote. “In fact, the evidence presented demonstrated that the Defendant is treated more favorably than other inmates housed at the Westville Correctional Facility.”

‘Treated more favorably’: Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to stay in same facility after judge denies safekeeping order

 

[girlhasnoname]

I found this article that explains a little about BG and the location of the girls on the bridge. I wonder if Libby wasn't already at the end of the bridge recording Abby walking when BG aka RA caught up to her and cycled the gun?.

<snipped & BBM>

German and Williams were reportedly dropped off across from Mears Farm at 1:49 p.m. by German's sister. At 2:13 p.m., a video taken from German's phone shows the girls encountered a male subject on the southeast portion of the Monon High Bridge, according to court documents.

That video reportedly showed Williams walking down the Monon High Bridge as a man in a dark jacket and jeans walking behind her. As he approaches, one of the girls can be heard saying "gun."

Near the end of the video, the man was reportedly seen and heard on video telling the girls, "Guys, down the hill." The girls could be seen proceeding down the hill, and the video reportedly ends.

Delphi court docs: Richard Allen told wife he killed Libby German and Abby Williams; prosecutors believe knife was used in murders

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes I thought this was significant too, for the reasons you mention.
To me, it looks like RA’s defense team was truly rocked by finding out he had confessed in his own words on a recorded phone call. Irrefutable. The motion claiming mental issues and mistreatment was desperate and misguided. We now know the defense team is completely OK with concocting total fantasy to get RA off. Their only hope now is to get every piece of evidence thrown out, which of course, they are trying. Better that they should negotiate a plea deal.

I hadn’t noticed RA had a meeting with his attorney the exact same day as the phone calls. No wonder he was later described as “schizophrenic and delusional” on April 3rd as if he suddenly caught a virus that was going around. I don’t even think they really wanted him moved, just that relocating him could later be viewed as proof the move was justified. An obvious defence tactic that didn’t work. I hope Plan B is a plea deal as well, can’t think of what other option would be available now.

“During a meeting with his attorney on April 3, his attorney described Allen as "suffering from various psychotic symptoms, which counsel would describe as schizophrenic and delusional."

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen ordered to stay in state prison ahead of trial

The judge also ruled the defense could not go in to inspect his cell.

www.wthr.com

“In the 3 April phone call, from the Westville Correctional Facility where the accused killer is being held awaiting trial, Mr Allen allegedly admitted “several times” that he carried out the brutal murders.

“On April 3, 2023, Richard M. Allen made a phone call to his wife Kathy Allen,” the court documents read.

“In that phone call, Richard M. Allen admits several times that he killed Abby and Libby….”

Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen ‘confessed in jailhouse phone call with wife’

Trove of court documents also reveals Libby and Abby are believed to have been killed with a knife and that some items of their clothing was missing from the crime scene

www.independent.co.uk

 

[TL4S]

I know the charges against RA are the equivalent to Felony Murder, and that's very clear in the wording used below, per NMcL's motion to get RA's mental health records from Westville:

Investigators believe Richard M. Allen committed this kidnapping which resulted in the killing of Victim 1 and Victim 2.

Investigators believe after that time Victim 1 and Victim 2 were removed from the bridge by Richard Allen to where their murders occurred.

At this point, they only need to prove him as the kidnapper, imo. If the prosecution feels RA's confessions were indisputably legitimate, then would they change those charges from Felony Murder to Murder One? Would there be any real benefit to doing that?

 

[MistyWaters]

I know the charges against RA are the equivalent to Felony Murder, and that's very clear in the wording used below, per NMcL's motion to get RA's mental health records from Westville:

Investigators believe Richard M. Allen committed this kidnapping which resulted in the killing of Victim 1 and Victim 2.

Investigators believe after that time Victim 1 and Victim 2 were removed from the bridge by Richard Allen to where their murders occurred.

At this point, they only need to prove him as the kidnapper, imo. If the prosecution feels RA's confessions were indisputably legitimate, then would they change those charges from Felony Murder to Murder One? Would there be any real benefit to doing that?

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I see it based on detailed past discussions on these threads.

It’s more appropriate to charge RA with Felony murder and I doubt it will be changed. The reason is Felony murder already includes an aggravating circumstances (ie kidnapping) which automatically makes a conviction eligible for the death sentence. Murder one, without separately charging him with kidnapping, wouldn’t be, assuming he would be convicted of both charges. Doing it this way is simpler and straightforward JMO. This is important because it’s the potential of a death sentence where the State might have good leverage with a plea deal.

I don’t believe The Felony murder charge indicates RA might not also be the actual murderer, although it‘s interpreted that way by some people. If the defence could prove he wasn’t even aware their murders were planned and someone else committed it, I don’t agree a jury would have no option but to automatically convict him of Felony murder. JMO

Aggravating Circumstances in Indiana Criminal Cases

Learn how aggravating circumstances affect criminal cases, then call Keffer Hirschauer to get a leading Indianapolis defense lawyer on your case.

www.indyjustice.com

 

[MistyWaters]

Possibly at one time the proof of Felony Murder was different but notice the current wording “…..kills another human being while committing <>kidnapping”…..

IMO the prosecution is confident RA is the killer otherwise they’d only have charged him with kidnapping.

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

2022 Indiana Code

Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure​

Article 42. Offenses Against the Person​

Chapter 1. Homicide​

35-42-1-1. Murder​

Universal Citation: IN Code § 35-42-1-1 (2022)
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);……..

…….commits murder, a felony.

 

[TL4S]

Possibly at one time the proof of Felony Murder was different but notice the current wording “…..kills another human being while committing <>kidnapping”…..

IMO the prosecution is confident RA is the killer otherwise they’d only have charged him with kidnapping.

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

2022 Indiana Code

Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure​

Article 42. Offenses Against the Person​

Chapter 1. Homicide​

35-42-1-1. Murder​

Universal Citation: IN Code § 35-42-1-1 (2022)
Sec. 1. A person who:
(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);……..

…….commits murder, a felony.

Thank you, that does help explain it. I believe the careful wording in the motion then was because they really don't need to prove the girls died by his hand if they can prove he kidnapped them, since it's all tied together. If there is a bright spot to be found, it's that L's video truly will be the likely key piece of evidence to convict their killer. Jmo.

 

[CGBSpender]

Anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong but this is the way I see it based on detailed past discussions on these threads.

It’s more appropriate to charge RA with Felony murder and I doubt it will be changed. The reason is Felony murder already includes an aggravating circumstances (ie kidnapping) which automatically makes a conviction eligible for the death sentence. Murder one, without separately charging him with kidnapping, wouldn’t be, assuming he would be convicted of both charges. Doing it this way is simpler and straightforward JMO. This is important because it’s the potential of a death sentence where the State might have good leverage with a plea deal.

I don’t believe The Felony murder charge indicates RA might not also be the actual murderer, although it‘s interpreted that way by some people. If the defence could prove he wasn’t even aware their murders were planned and someone else committed it, I don’t agree a jury would have no option but to automatically convict him of Felony murder. JMO

Aggravating Circumstances in Indiana Criminal Cases

Learn how aggravating circumstances affect criminal cases, then call Keffer Hirschauer to get a leading Indianapolis defense lawyer on your case.

www.indyjustice.com

I don't believe this is correct as to Indiana. Felony murder generally requires proving an intent to commit the underlying felony, it does not require proving intent to kill. Even though a defendant may be convicted of felony murder if they did not intend to kill the victim, the defendant can't be sentenced to death without a finding of specific intent to kill. (See: Fleenor v. State, 514 N.E.2d 80 | Casetext Search + Citator).

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

07/19/2023

Order Issued The Court, having reviewed the Indiana Department of Correction's Motion to Quash Subpoena or Enter Protective Order, now finds that Defendant's request is unreasonable and oppressive, and beyond the scope of discovery. The Court, therefore, quashes the Subpoena and Request for Production to Non-Party issued by Counsel in May 19, 2023. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 07/18/2023

I wasn't sure which motion was being order was being issued on. Here it is:
Along with Gull's order on the safekeeping motion, she also ruled Wednesday that the defense team could not go into the WCF to inspect Allen's cell, calling the desire to do so "unreasonable and oppressive, and beyond the scope of discovery."

Judge: Delphi suspect Richard Allen to stay at Westville

DELPHI — Richard Allen, a Carroll County man accused in the deaths of Delphi teenagers Libby German and Abby Williams, will now stay at the Westville Correctional Facility as he

www.goshennews.com