IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[FromGermany1]

Does anyone remember a picture of a man sitting on a bench at another park? Someone shared the picture and said he asked for something. A cigarette? It made them uncomfortable? I barely remember this and would like to see that picture again to see if it resembles RA.

I think, the pic was included into a blog done by RL. I would also like to see it again. Though my memory is that of a man, sitting on a bench, bent over in front and being big and obese a bit, different to RA (I believe).
I don't know, that the pic was taken in another park.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The most important people in this case.

 

[Gemmie]

The most important people in this case.

View attachment 436623

And their family and friends.

 

[somequestions]

If the killer was seen at approximately 3:57pm walking west on the north side of 300 N, presumably back to their car, then how did they avoid the surveillance camera at the Hoosier Harveststore? If they went back onto the trail to avoid the surveillance camera, then how did they avoid Liberty German's father or the flannel shirt guy? If the killer passed either of those two people on the trail would they not notice he was "muddy and bloody"?

I know Richard Allen confessed, but I wonder about the answer to these questions anyway.

 

[MistyWaters]

If the killer was seen at approximately 3:57pm walking west on the north side of 300 N, presumably back to their car, then how did they avoid the surveillance camera at the Hoosier Harveststore? If they went back onto the trail to avoid the surveillance camera, then how did they avoid Liberty German's father or the flannel shirt guy? If the killer passed either of those two people on the trail would they not notice he was "muddy and bloody"?

I know Richard Allen confessed, but I wonder about the answer to these questions anyway.

This is a question we can’t answer. Aside from various possibilities already posted regarding the last time you brought the subject up, here are a couple more, purely speculation of course -
- the Hoosier Harveststore CCTV is designed to prevent theft from the business and is primarily focused on the front parking lot. But as it happens to be aimed in the direction of the road as well, blurry images of vehicles can be detected. If it captured a figure walking down the road, it wasn’t nearly clear enough to determine if he was bloody and muddy, let alone ID this person. Therefore the Prosecution omitted this fact in the PCA as it proves nothing. If there’s a trial the defence can argue it wasn’t RA as he wasn’t identified.
- about the time RA would’ve been sighted by their CCTV, a large cube van pulled into the parking lot obliterating any view of the road.

There could also be many other reasons, depending on the route he took.

 

[Megnut]

This is a question we can’t answer. Aside from various possibilities already posted regarding the last time you brought the subject up, here are a couple more, purely speculation of course -
- the Hoosier Harveststore CCTV is designed to prevent theft from the business and is primarily focused on the front parking lot. But as it happens to be aimed in the direction of the road as well, blurry images of vehicles can be detected. If it captured a figure walking down the road, it wasn’t nearly clear enough to determine if he was bloody and muddy, let alone ID this person. Therefore the Prosecution omitted this fact in the PCA as it proves nothing. If there’s a trial the defence can argue it wasn’t RA as he wasn’t identified.
- about the time RA would’ve been sighted by their CCTV, a large cube van pulled into the parking lot obliterating any view of the road.

There could also be many other reasons, depending on the route he took.

There's an unsolved crime in these threads whereby a woman went missing, I believe her car was driven away, and at one point, the suspect is captured on CCTV. Unfortunately it's not streamed CCTV and it only captured a string of frames and as it happened, each snapshot in time was in sync with the man's stride, catching him as he passed behind fence posts, effectively but unbelievably obscuring him

In this case, it's almost as if RA was obscured from capture on CCTV by the white boxtruck boxing him out....

Which raises the bigger question: WHY WAS THERE A BOX TRUCK AT ALL? WHY THERE, WHY THEN?

To me, that's as suspicious as heck -- and unless LE knows who was driving that truck and the driver had truly legit reason to be there, I'm doubling down on my abduction theory.

Where'd that truck come from? And where'd it go next?

Maybe RA didn't intend to shoot, stab, kill anyone at MHB; maybe he planned a precision abduction, handing off his junior "commodities" to another "day trader", one with a white boxtruck...

Where the end game was every ugly thing you could imagine and worse.

What ever came of the white box truck?

I don't think this horrific crime went down the way it was supposed to. Hard to imagine it could've been worse... but I think murder was inevitable, but captivity was to come first.

JMO

 

[digiskunk]

I've been following this chilling case since the beginning and cannot believe how much it has evolved over the years. They started with few clues and a short video clip, and now an arrest has been made accompanied with a supposed [private] confession. After years of speculation, here we are.

 

[MistyWaters]

There's an unsolved crime in these threads whereby a woman went missing, I believe her car was driven away, and at one point, the suspect is captured on CCTV. Unfortunately it's not streamed CCTV and it only captured a string of frames and as it happened, each snapshot in time was in sync with the man's stride, catching him as he passed behind fence posts, effectively but unbelievably obscuring him

In this case, it's almost as if RA was obscured from capture on CCTV by the white boxtruck boxing him out....

Which raises the bigger question: WHY WAS THERE A BOX TRUCK AT ALL? WHY THERE, WHY THEN?

To me, that's as suspicious as heck -- and unless LE knows who was driving that truck and the driver had truly legit reason to be there, I'm doubling down on my abduction theory.

Where'd that truck come from? And where'd it go next?

Maybe RA didn't intend to shoot, stab, kill anyone at MHB; maybe he planned a precision abduction, handing off his junior "commodities" to another "day trader", one with a white boxtruck...

Where the end game was every ugly thing you could imagine and worse.

What ever came of the white box truck?

I don't think this horrific crime went down the way it was supposed to. Hard to imagine it could've been worse... but I think murder was inevitable, but captivity was to come first.

JMO

Total coincidence, the cube van may‘ve been dropping off parts for these, it does a good job!

Most intriguing farm equipment names | Farm Progress

Most intriguing farm equipment names

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Hagedorn Extravert manure spreader

This manure spreader has the ability to create fine, uniform manure spread of up to 40 ft. in width.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Does anyone remember a picture of a man sitting on a bench at another park? Someone shared the picture and said he asked for something. A cigarette? It made them uncomfortable? I barely remember this and would like to see that picture again to see if it resembles RA.

I do remember it and think it was in Kokomo Indiana. I vaguely remember the image. A lady was in the park with her child. For some reason I discounted it because I didn't think the suspect would be out on the hunt again so soon.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

KK didn’t negotiate a plea deal. He simply pled guilty to the 25 charges on March 30th. No deal offered nor accepted. I haven’t checked but I’d assume March 30th was also a court date. As RA has already been charged without KK’s involvement, I can’t imagine what hold KK, whose word would never be believed anyway, would have over RA.

“After many hearing reschedules, Kline pled guilty to all charges on March 30. The charges included child solicitation, possession of child *advertiser censored*, and obstruction of justice.”

Kegan Kline will not withdraw guilty plea

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Kegan Kline, the child *advertiser censored* suspect who ran a fake social media account State Police connected to the Delphi murders, will not withdraw his guilty plea. Online court documents say that Kline on Wednesday submitted a notice of intent to not withdraw his guilty plea for the...

www.wishtv.com

Thank you. I had stepped away from this case for a significant time and missed a lot of the posts in regards to KK. It would be really odd in this day of tech to have a local pedo ring occurring so close to this. I remember stories of these types of things back in the 70's and 80's when immediate access to dark web wasn't available. I had read headlines about a plea deal so I was misinformed. I guess I thought there might be some evidence of connection outside of KK's stories.

 

[al66pine]

Confession?

..,.I know Richard Allen confessed, but I wonder about the answer to these questions anyway.

snipoed for focus
I haven't read here for a couple months, missed anything re confession. New to me

Can anyone direct me to MSM article w his confession?
Please.

 

[dmac55]

Confession?

snipoed for focus
I haven't read here for a couple months, missed anything re confession. New to me

Can anyone direct me to MSM article w his confession?

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders ‘no less than 5 times’ in jailhouse call​

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders 'no less than 5 times' in jailhouse call

In newly released court documents, prosecutors claim that Richard Allen confessed to the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German at least five times while on the phone with his wife and mom.

lawandcrime.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If the killer was seen at approximately 3:57pm walking west on the north side of 300 N, presumably back to their car, then how did they avoid the surveillance camera at the Hoosier Harveststore? If they went back onto the trail to avoid the surveillance camera, then how did they avoid Liberty German's father or the flannel shirt guy? If the killer passed either of those two people on the trail would they not notice he was "muddy and bloody"?

I know Richard Allen confessed, but I wonder about the answer to these questions anyway.

I always figured he went behind the store to avoid anyone at the store at that time.

 

[al66pine]

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders ‘no less than 5 times’ in jailhouse call​

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders 'no less than 5 times' in jailhouse call

In newly released court documents, prosecutors claim that Richard Allen confessed to the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German at least five times while on the phone with his wife and mom.

lawandcrime.com

@dmac55
Thank you so very much.
I should have thought to search L & C website. Off to read.

ETA: Terrific, w pdf's/images of the actual ct-filed doc's. TYVM again.

 

[Falling Down]

I do remember it and think it was in Kokomo Indiana. I vaguely remember the image. A lady was in the park with her child. For some reason I discounted it because I didn't think the suspect would be out on the hunt again so soon.

Deer and Wildcat creeks both go through Kokomo. Only public park there of note I know of wouldn't be conducive to what happened near Delphi. Just goes to show how jumpy people were after the murders, myself included as I walk trails in northern IN. My head was on a swivel on the Cardinal Greenway and other trails for a while.

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

*pulls up a chair*

Hi. Finally up to date, after reading and reading and reading threads one to one hundred and sixty five since I joined in October. Definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

I don't know that I have much of use to add at this point except my impression of the investigation. That above everything, it most closely reminds me of that of the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper.

Their enormous lazy susan of index cards, the sheer weight of thousands of paper files that caused a structural engineer palpitations until they reinforced the floor.

And with all that 'revolutionary' organisation of astronomical amounts of information, they missed the killer over and over again, despite interviewing him multiple times, because the system was deeply flawed.

Even in a digital age, once the volume gets to a certain point, it's very, very easy for mistakes to creep in that lead to critical things being misfiled or overlooked. And whether you're analogue or digital, the saying 'garbage in, garbage out' applies. Just ticking the wrong box can consign something important to investigative Siberia, to languish there until someone goes back to the original information.

Their default here seems to have been to maintain that they hadn't been given the right information yet and to beg for more tips. The public obliged, and yet the investigation didn't progress. I don't know why they didn't visit and revisit every witness from those first days dozens of times over the course of the investigation, but for whatever reason, it didn't happen, because otherwise, we would have been here six years ago.

Fortunately, I do believe that they have the right person in custody. I just hope there haven't been any more victims in the intervening years.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

There's an unsolved crime in these threads whereby a woman went missing, I believe her car was driven away, and at one point, the suspect is captured on CCTV. Unfortunately it's not streamed CCTV and it only captured a string of frames and as it happened, each snapshot in time was in sync with the man's stride, catching him as he passed behind fence posts, effectively but unbelievably obscuring him

In this case, it's almost as if RA was obscured from capture on CCTV by the white boxtruck boxing him out....

Which raises the bigger question: WHY WAS THERE A BOX TRUCK AT ALL? WHY THERE, WHY THEN?

To me, that's as suspicious as heck -- and unless LE knows who was driving that truck and the driver had truly legit reason to be there, I'm doubling down on my abduction theory.

Where'd that truck come from? And where'd it go next?

Maybe RA didn't intend to shoot, stab, kill anyone at MHB; maybe he planned a precision abduction, handing off his junior "commodities" to another "day trader", one with a white boxtruck...

Where the end game was every ugly thing you could imagine and worse.

What ever came of the white box truck?

I don't think this horrific crime went down the way it was supposed to. Hard to imagine it could've been worse... but I think murder was inevitable, but captivity was to come first.

JMO

Can't remember, what I had for breakfast half an hour before, but: Jennifer Kesse case, right?

I don't know, if the white truck maybe a puzzle piece to this sad story of Abby and Libby. Was ever known, who drove it and parked there? Perhaps gone lost in the files?

 

[girlhasnoname]

*pulls up a chair*

Hi. Finally up to date, after reading and reading and reading threads one to one hundred and sixty five since I joined in October. Definitely a marathon, not a sprint.

I don't know that I have much of use to add at this point except my impression of the investigation. That above everything, it most closely reminds me of that of the hunt for the Yorkshire Ripper.

Their enormous lazy susan of index cards, the sheer weight of thousands of paper files that caused a structural engineer palpitations until they reinforced the floor.

And with all that 'revolutionary' organisation of astronomical amounts of information, they missed the killer over and over again, despite interviewing him multiple times, because the system was deeply flawed.

Even in a digital age, once the volume gets to a certain point, it's very, very easy for mistakes to creep in that lead to critical things being misfiled or overlooked. And whether you're analogue or digital, the saying 'garbage in, garbage out' applies. Just ticking the wrong box can consign something important to investigative Siberia, to languish there until someone goes back to the original information.

Their default here seems to have been to maintain that they hadn't been given the right information yet and to beg for more tips. The public obliged, and yet the investigation didn't progress. I don't know why they didn't visit and revisit every witness from those first days dozens of times over the course of the investigation, but for whatever reason, it didn't happen, because otherwise, we would have been here six years ago.

Fortunately, I do believe that they have the right person in custody. I just hope there haven't been any more victims in the intervening years.

MOO

LE didn't interview RA over and over again IIRC. He came forward to a conservation officer right after the murders and admitted to being there. How much work or thought was put into that tip, obviously not enough.

I do agree that LE let RA slip through the cracks and he lived right under their noses for years. I wonder if we'll ever learn how that focused on RA again after so long?

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

LE didn't interview RA over and over again IIRC. He came forward to a conservation officer right after the murders and admitted to being there. How much work or thought was put into that tip, obviously not enough.

I do agree that LE let RA slip through the cracks and he lived right under their noses for years. I wonder if we'll ever learn how that focused on RA again after so long?

MOO

Oh I know, I was talking about Peter Sutcliffe and the flaws of that specific investigation at that point. They're not carbon copies of each other, but they do bear the similarity in that they were cases where the investigation was overwhelmed with a huge volume of tips, and where things that should have been followed up on, weren't.

I have a feeling that someone was going back through actual original witness statements and realised that RA's had never been properly added to the big picture. Here was this guy who spoke to an officer immediately after the crime, placing himself at the scene, and yet they didn't follow up? Somewhere, there was a systemic breakdown that meant he was never in the picture, despite being literally in the picture.

MOO

 

[CGBSpender]

Perhaps the nature of the wounds; cause of death, not the staging.

Is it possible to tell it was that specific type of knife was used from seeing wounds...to the point they can go looking for recent purchases without it being like searching for a needle in a haystack? I guess I was thinking that at most they could tell single vs. double edge...and serrated vs plain edge...and length maybe...but that wounds wouldn't get them enough to know what exact knife to search for?

JMO