IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I totally agree TL. I think he knew if the inmates caught wind of something so atrocious (speculation) he'd be done for.

Do you think the State would even offer a plea? I just don't see that happening after all the time and resources spent of this case, BUT if they did, I'd bet RA would jump at it.

As awful as it is to think, I believe RA might off himself rather than go to a public trial and I've never said that about any other Defendant on WS.

MOO
BBM. Nah, he's too busy trying to play insane, IMO. I think he's being closely watched for any signs of trying to off himself. They want him in one piece for trial. LE will not deny the public the right of seeing this creature get sentenced.

What absolutely chills me is a photo of this creature sitting with his dog on his lap, looking perfectly benign. He was hiding in plain sight. That is a terrifying thought. I'm sure there were lots of parents in the town where he worked that sent up a silent prayer of gratitude that it wasn't their child. It could have easily been. Can you imagine how many children he eyeballed as they stood in the pharmacy line with their parents....Chilling.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
I totally agree TL. I think he knew if the inmates caught wind of something so atrocious (speculation) he'd be done for.

Do you think the State would even offer a plea? I just don't see that happening after all the time and resources spent of this case, BUT if they did, I'd bet RA would jump at it.

As awful as it is to think, I believe RA might off himself rather than go to a public trial and I've never said that about any other Defendant on WS.

MOO
Maybe it will be like another KAK, where pleading guilty despite no deal from the state is still the better route for the defendant, in the end.
 
I totally agree TL. I think he knew if the inmates caught wind of something so atrocious (speculation) he'd be done for.

Do you think the State would even offer a plea? I just don't see that happening after all the time and resources spent of this case, BUT if they did, I'd bet RA would jump at it.

As awful as it is to think, I believe RA might off himself rather than go to a public trial and I've never said that about any other Defendant on WS.

MOO
I absolutely think the state would accept a plea if RA confesses to every bit of the crime and includes all details including motive. I think they'd actually prefer it since the state has not looked good through out this whole ordeal. The sitting on the admission of RA at the bridge that day for 5 years isn't going to look good at trial, neither will the ever changing sketch and description, nor the other avenues of investigation into KAK, TK, RL, Chadwell, etc who look nothing like BG or RA. If the defense points out that KAK was seriously looked at as BG that's going to look really bad for the state trying to say RA is BG.

For the record, I think RA is super guilty and don't think any of the other POIs even closely resembled BG.
 
I notice the Judge has yet to rule on the Motion to limine regarding ballistics from way back in June, the defence has not filed any further motions and no additional hearing scheduled whatsoever. The unusual silence that prevails indeed makes me wonder if plea discussions are happening at this time.

BBM

KEY BALLISTIC EVIDENCE​

Discussions of the defenses' motion to dismiss ballistic evidence was tabled by Judge Gull until a later date.

However, she announced that several other undisclosed documents would be unsealed sometime next week. No further information was given.

Allen's attorneys filed a motion to "limine regarding ballistics" on Wednesday.

The motion, although sealed from public view, is related to ballistics evidence raised previously in the probable cause affidavit that lead to Allen's arrest.

According to that affidavit, an unspent .40 caliber round was found at the crime scene between Libby and Abby's bodies.

That bullet was found to come from a gun belonging to Allen, who offered investigators no explanation for how it came to be found at the scene.

Allen's attorneys called the evidence "flimsy" at the time.

Greenlee said it will be difficult for Allen's attorneys to get the evidence thrown out, but there are two main avenues they may pursue to do so.

"The first one is the judge could rule that the evidence was obtained improperly. In other words, that investigators didn't really have the probable cause to go in and do the search when they found the gun," he said.

"Generally, it's pretty hard to throw out the search warrant, but it happens sometimes. It's very difficult though, so I don't think that's terribly likely.

"The other avenue way is to make the argument that the evidence is unreliable.

"A number of defense attorneys recently have been arguing that ballistics evidence cannot be trusted, that there's no scientific evidence behind it. Again, it's unlikely, but it's possible.

"My guess is the ballistic evidence will stay in and if you have ballistic evidence alongside a possible confession, and if jurors find that confession credible, then that will all make for pretty compelling evidence against Allen."
 
THIS (RA) is not the "highly sophisticated criminal mastermind", I for example searched for since 2017. Just saying .... The "mastermind" turned out to be an average, disturbed person. I would never ever have thought!
ETA: It doesn't matter, which black and white shoes he wore or which white thing was hanging around his neck or if the supposed belt bag was really a belt bag - he's not, who I thought he was. Then it may just be like that. Agreed.

Yeah. Sometimes crooks get lucky e.g no one finds the body so they get away with it. This was that kind of case. He was just very very fortunate they dropped the ball on his statement - and that error was what created the intrigue - but there was no real mystery - just a mistake by LE. If he was arrested after 2 weeks then none of the other speculation and investigations happens
 
Yeah. Sometimes crooks get lucky e.g no one finds the body so they get away with it. This was that kind of case. He was just very very fortunate they dropped the ball on his statement - and that error was what created the intrigue - but there was no real mystery - just a mistake by LE. If he was arrested after 2 weeks then none of the other speculation and investigations happens
We are web sleuths and some of us would still have been sleuthing. There would have been too many unanswered questions not to. There still are. IMO.
 
We are web sleuths and some of us would still have been sleuthing. There would have been too many unanswered questions not to. There still are. IMO.

If LE hadn’t “dropped the ball” early on. If they had properly followed up with RA. RA would have been arrested within a month. The evidence would be fresh, with chances for real DNA etc being found in his car, his house or clothes. With that early arrest I doubt LE would have been so tight with information, which caused a lot of our questions. RA would have been tried years ago by now.
You are right that we all would have continued to study the case even with an early arrest, but I think because the extraordinary amount of speculation that developed over years of no arrest happening, would not exist in that situation. A lot of our questions now, in my opinion, are rooted in that and our mistrust of LE over the years in this case.
 
BBM. Nah. Just vigorously and transparently working on the "not mentally competent" angle.

Amateur opinion and speculation
Murder Sheet's recent podcast might interest a few.

 
Section 35-41-4-1 - Standard of proof; insanity defense(a) A person may be convicted of an offense only if his guilt is proved beyond a reasonable doubt.(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), the burden of proof is on the defendant to establish the defense of insanity (IC 35-41-3-6 ) by a preponderance of the evidence.

IC 35-41-4-1

 
Section 35-41-4-1 - Standard of proof; insanity defense(a) A person may be convicted of an offense only if his guilt is proved beyond a reasonable doubt.(b) Notwithstanding subsection (a), the burden of proof is on the defendant to establish the defense of insanity (IC 35-41-3-6 ) by a preponderance of the evidence.

IC 35-41-4-1

I was trying to figure out how any of the mental defenses would benefit the accused but I got bogged down halfway though the podcast. I've followed 2 mental illness cases on here:

Joseph Oberhansley (cannibalized his gf) had brain damage and meth addiction; he received LWOP. They were seeking the DP but it was dismissed. Case # 10C04-1409-MR-000001


The other one is Indy's Victor Johnson; his is still active. News reports indicated he had some real problems. He was committed to the Department of State Hospital (Logansport) in Sept. 2022, then came this. His case # 49D27-2006-F1-020073
01/03/2023Notice to Court Filed
CST Report Competent-V.J.
 
Murder Sheet's recent podcast might interest a few.

This is an *excellent* resource to understanding what constitutes competency. Thank you for sharing! It's going in my permanent reference files!

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
I was trying to figure out how any of the mental defenses would benefit the accused but I got bogged down halfway though the podcast. I've followed 2 mental illness cases on here:

Joseph Oberhansley (cannibalized his gf) had brain damage and meth addiction; he received LWOP. They were seeking the DP but it was dismissed. Case # 10C04-1409-MR-000001


The other one is Indy's Victor Johnson; his is still active. News reports indicated he had some real problems. He was committed to the Department of State Hospital (Logansport) in Sept. 2022, then came this. His case # 49D27-2006-F1-020073
01/03/2023Notice to Court Filed
CST Report Competent-V.J.
Adding another Indiana murder / insanity defense case. Anthony Hutchens, found guilty of molesting and murdering a 6 year old girl.

 
His appeal is in; did you get a chance to read it?
Case # 23A-CR-00918
Thanks for providing - I did a quick read. It seems he will stay in the juvenile system, rather than spend the 64 years in adult prison. His murder conviction still stands.

Is that how you interpret the brief?



 
Last edited:
Thanks for providing - I did a quick read. It seems he will stay in the juvenile system, rather than spend the 64 years in adult prison. His murder conviction still stands.

Is that how you interpret the brief?



Yes. His atty and the medical professionals think he should stay in the juvenile system. The State will have a different opinon. Usually the SC sides with the State so the outcome will be interesting, as always.

I wonder if it's usual for the judge in the lower court to deny a motion for an interlocutory appeal.
 
Attorney Shay Hughes is again talking on Twitter (X) and Instagram about the motion to suppress the search warrant. The Instagram acct has some discussion on the issue of whether or not the PCA supports it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
93
Guests online
3,565
Total visitors
3,658

Forum statistics

Threads
603,159
Messages
18,153,035
Members
231,661
Latest member
raindrop413
Back
Top