IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Arkay]

Re: Referring to him as Rick instead of the defendant or Mr. Allen -- Yeah, it's strategic. It's not unprofessional.

I respect that you are a verified attorney, so I just have a question, as many others have, about the language employed throughout.

If, as you say, this 136 page document was prepared for the judge’s perusal, I can grasp why the lawyers would refer to the suspect as “Rick.” The implication would be that the suspect is not a threatening, murderous, bizarre specimen named “Mr. Allen,” but is merely good old Rick from CVS. Nothing to see here, and so forth.

In a document that is meant to be “in-house,” as it were, is it customary to use such colloquial language In laying out the points they are making? As in @Sillybilly’s example from page 130, and these examples from pp. 131 and 132, respectively:





I‘ve never encountered a legal document that incorporated such phrases as someone “screwed up,” or “Well, since we can’t ….”

This document is replete with such casual language throughout. To a layperson such as me, it’s quite startling to read such a conversational tone in a legal document.

My question once more, sincerely asked, is this the typical manner in which a crucial legal document is written when it is again “in-house,“ meant originally for the judge alone?

TIA and JMO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Delphi Murders: Illustrations Detail Defense Claims About Crime Scene

Graphic interpretations offer new insight into the items found at the scene that Richard Allen says are evidence of a ritual sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

MOO, According to the interview, the sticks/branches found on the bodies and the bark/tree section with blood were not taken as evidence. Days later, apparently, when the possibility that the placement wasn't random was raised, LE returned for the sticks/branches.
Branches that had been handled by the killer. They could never later prove that they collected the exact same branches and that they had not been touched/altered by others and the environment. I hope there are good photos of the branches before they were taken off of the bodies. I think they would show it was random placement, as in the killer just started covering/hiding them but felt he was out of time.

 

[iamshadow21]

The defense's explanation is that Asatru/Odinism has been subverted by white nationalists, and that PW and BH were of that variety. They do seem to have been members of this racist group: Vinlanders Social Club

The defense memo says that BH told his ex-wife that “W and ‘his people’ killed Abigail Williams and Liberty German because one of their mothers was ‘mixing’ with other people outside the mother’s race.” p. 17

See, this doesn't make sense to me, because generally, that kind of murder to punish or send someone a message - they tend to be unequivocal. Think somebody with their tongue cut out and the word 'SNITCH' painted on the alley wall above them in blood. The whole point of a message like that is that it's easily understood. What about this is easy to understand? What about the manner of the deaths would make it clear to the offending family member that that was why? Nothing. People sending a message tend to leave the bodies displayed somewhere public, and they don't faff about with arranging branches and undressing, redressing, etc.

MOO

 

[lgh0309]

I respect that you are a verified attorney, so I just have a question, as many others have, about the language employed throughout.

If, as you say, this 136 page document was prepared for the judge’s perusal, I can grasp why the lawyers would refer to the suspect as “Rick.” The implication would be that the suspect is not a threatening, murderous, bizarre specimen named “Mr. Allen,” but is merely good old Rick from CVS. Nothing to see here, and so forth.

In a document that is meant to be “in-house,” as it were, is it customary to use such colloquial language In laying out the points they are making? As in @Sillybilly’s example from page 130, and these examples from pp. 131 and 132, respectively:

View attachment 448219
View attachment 448225


I‘ve never encountered a legal document that incorporated such phrases as someone “screwed up,” or “Well, since we can’t ….”

This document is replete with such casual language throughout. To a layperson such as me, it’s quite startling to read such a conversational tone in a legal document.

My question once more, sincerely asked, is this the typical manner in which a crucial legal document is written when it is again “in-house,“ meant originally for the judge alone?

TIA and JMO

IMO yes the “Rick” thing is unprofessional, so opinions vary there for sure. there are smoother more respectable ways to humanize a client.

no this type of tone and sloppy contents are not typical. a professional motion should include discussion of the case law and applicable legal standards and not just contain a bunch of word salad. i found this document utterly flabbergasting. the dearth of law and argument was shocking to me bc I assumed these were good lawyers or they wouldn’t have been appointed…still can’t wrap my head around it.

 

[margarita25]

Just want to chime in to say that I loathe the fact that we now know about the crime scene details.

As someone with two granddaughters, I can’t get it out of my head.

I don’t know if the families were already privy to these details. If so, this has to have been tormenting them for years.

If not, this is an almost abusive way to find out, simultaneously with us nobodies in the public.

I understand that some posters here are now saying this has been rumored for years, but I avoid social media and it’s all new and horrifying to me.

JMO

Agreed.

 

[mrjitty]

You know what? You might be right. I'm not sure whether there's an opportunity for the prosecution to file a memo opposing the Franks hearing. It may just be that an initial showing by the defense is required and then the prosecution would get to present their opposition at the actual hearing if it's granted. Maybe PrarieWind is more familiar with the procedure for these specific hearings.

In either case, I don't think they'll waste a lot of time on the Odinism theory since it's not really relevant to the Franks standard, but they may have to rebut the accusations of witness statements being omitted and altered in the search warrant affidavit.

I agree.

I guess they will file in relation to the Frank's stuff (alleged misleading statements by Liggett) but the rest of it seems more like trial content. I have no idea why all that stuff would be included in this motion except to get it in the media.

 

[Niner]

So @FrostedGlass - any word on when the Frank's hearing might be?

TIA!

 

[TL4S]

New Murder Sheet.

The Delphi Murders: The Other Defense Filings

 

[TL4S]

According to the MS podcast, some of the new D filings include a list of exhibits (not public), which includes CS photos, an Oct. LE interview with RA, transcripts of an LE interview with KA (RA's wife), depositions from LE, information about "evil" Odinism in IN state prisons via Trooper X, an officer in IN who specializes in this sort of stuff, and general information on Odinism.

More than the Odinite details, I'm interested in finding out if there really were omissions made by LE in regards to witness statements and such. Some of the things we've been bothered by for years have sort of been answered, if we believe the document, like the origin of the YBG sketch, how RA's name got lost, etc. But does any of it matter? Curious minds want to know...

 

[Salah11]

So I was reading it again and why are there so many inconsistencies?

Just one example - Abby’s clothing

1. There was no blood on them
2. Very little blood was found on them
3. Little to no blood was found other than on clothes around the neck area

So which is it as we have 3 different statements about the blood on the items.

 

[TL4S]

According to Barbara McD on this Court TV piece, her sources had been telling her about the bullet for a long time, yet hadn't given any definitive theory to where it came from, even considered it having come from LE, because the caliber is what they use, and the ejection mark ballistics isn't as well defined as regular ballistics.

Delphi Murders: Illustrations Detail Defense Claims About Crime Scene

 

[TL4S]

According to Barbara McD on this Court TV piece, her sources had been telling her about the bullet for a long time, yet hadn't given any definitive theory to where it came from, even considered it having come from LE, because the caliber is what they use, and the ejection mark ballistics isn't as well defined as regular ballistics.

Delphi Murders: Illustrations Detail Defense Claims About Crime Scene

She also talks about how LE did not collect the sticks over the bodies (or anything from the F tree) until a couple weeks later, when the Odinite stuff fl was first theorized. Why would they not collect something that had clearly been handled by the killer, even if only to cover the bodies?

On the RL affidavit, the FBI agent NR described the bodies being "moved and staged," which I always thought might mean they were moved more out of sight and possibly covered. BMcD basically says this is what LE originally thought, that the sticks were an abandoned attempt to cover them. With all the leaves on the ground, I always assumed he would have used the leaves. It's odd to me.

 

[Pitsleuth]

I find it far more likely that these "Odinist" guards would be intimidating RA because he is an alleged (now confessed) child murderer as opposed to them... what? Intimidating a man who appears to be going down for a crime their alleged gang committed? Why would they do that? If their cult is responsible for the murders, why not just leave him be and let him go down for it?
The whole idea of these guards standing around, filming and intimidating RA WHILE HIS ATTORNEYS ARE PRESENT is just beyond ludicrous to me.

 

[Pitsleuth]

I have also seen drawings that depict how the sticks were supposedly lain over the bodies. I would have laughed if this was not so serious. I'm going to ask my 2 year old daughter to place sticks in a spot in our backyard and see how many runes I can pick out of what she creates.

 

[Salah11]

It sounds like a lot of things were botched unfortunately.


It’s crazy you wouldn’t collect everything you could at the crime scene even if it took weeks.


Also the Mobile phone being left behind to me is still crazy

 

[StarryStarryNight]

So I was reading it again and why are there so many inconsistencies?

Just one example - Abby’s clothing

1. There was no blood on them
2. Very little blood was found on them
3. Little to no blood was found other than on clothes around the neck area

So which is it as we have 3 different statements about the blood on the items.

The document is riddled with inconsistencies and outright false statements. It is not a clear and concise description of the crime scene.
This is the defenses’ take on the crime scene. It is their wild speculation about how things went down, trying to prove RA didn’t have have enough time to do it by himself.
I hope the prosecution comes out quickly in response to this motion to tamp all this down.

 

[Pitsleuth]

Sorry for so many posts in a row but I have about a 15 minute lunch break in between patients where I can jot down my thoughts. One thing I do find problematic in the memorandum is the sketches. But we have known this would be an issue for a long time. It still baffles me.

 

[LouLab]

It is ironic that these days Gray Hughes is doggedly comparing the voice of RA with the MHB recording. You see, I remember how at the very beginning, that voice was defined by the LE as the “voice of the devil”. That set the tone for the whole investigation, and now, LE got exactly what they were asking for. The devil? Are there any satanists around? No,but we have Odinists. So Odinists it will be. And now, LE’s own unprofessionalism backfires, because if you allude it was the devil who killed the girls, you set the stage for the followers of some pagan cults, what else can happen?

Personally, I don’t believe in ritualistic killings and the runes. I do believe that a person having a personal investment in one of the girls could stage it as “Odinist cult victims”. So, maybe the defenders are not that wrong in their accusation, and it is even possible that several people were involved. But I do think the murders were targeted. I don’t believe it was “sacrifice a girl” scenario, but “remove the hazard and oh, let’s throw some runes on it” seems quite plausible to me.

I respect that you "do not believe in ritualistic killings and runes". I am having alot of trouble squaring social media posts the first week of these murders by Proud Odinist mutants who knew atleast one victim...THAT NOW look extremely "similiar" to what the crime scene is described to have been by this document... I am not coming at you, I am exhausted by the screaming clues this document presents re: early on...what locals said...what rumors were flying...I swear I wish odinist stuff was staged...I would sleep better. The idea that LE could be compromised by these beliefs/brotherhood/cult goals is TERRIFYING.

 

[Havingacrisis]

I respect that you "do not believe in ritualistic killings and runes". I am having alot of trouble squaring social media posts the first week of these murders by Proud Odinist mutants who knew atleast one victim...THAT NOW look extremely "similiar" to what the crime scene is described to have been by this document... I am not coming at you, I am exhausted by the screaming clues this document presents re: early on...what locals said...what rumors were flying...I swear I wish odinist stuff was staged...I would sleep better. The idea that LE could be compromised by these beliefs/brotherhood/cult goals is TERRIFYING.

Agree.

I’m a bit annoyed that so many people are trying to paint anybody legitimately concerned by some of the revelations from these documents as conspiracy theorists and nuts

Some of the stuff mentioned is verifiably real, and easy to find

I just want to understand what the heck has gone on here. What a horrifying and strange case

 

[LouLab]

Agree.

I’m a bit annoyed that so many people are trying to paint anybody legitimately concerned by some of the revelations from these documents as conspiracy theorists and nuts

Some of the stuff mentioned is verifiably real, and easy to find

I just want to understand what the heck has gone on here. What a horrifying and strange case

I am not a nut. I am sus about anyone who wants to ignore this info.