IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[HistoryNut]

agree, this 136 page spooky story is meant to get the ODDI (other dude did it) theory out to the public while trying to get the search warrant tossed and therefore the evidence that came from it tossed as fruit of the poisonous tree. It's a two pronged attack that is oddly written for a pleading. But it makes for a titillating read, which I think was the goal. It was clearly meant not just for the judge's eyes, but for the public, who will one day serve as the pool a jury is picked from.

If this doesn't achieve their goal the next filing will be that poor Rich can't get a fair trial ANYWHERE, due to, wait for it, pretrial publicity. If the Odinites run the jail, then whose to say they aren't everywhere, infiltrating juries and whatnot? [watch your step, dripping sarcasm alert]

Exactly! Not to mention…

1. How did these supposed cult members know exactly where to find the girls that day?
2. If they were seeking revenge against Abby’s mom, why were they exceedingly brutal to Libby?
3. Is it beyond mere coincidence that RA told LE that he was by the bridge that day, and was wearing the same clothing as BG?
4. Why aren’t more violent crimes by the cult mentioned in the media?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Exactly! Not to mention…

1. How did these supposed cult members know exactly where to find the girls that day?
2. If they were seeking revenge against Abby’s mom, why were they exceedingly brutal to Libby?
3. Is it beyond mere coincidence that RA told LE that he was by the bridge that day, and was wearing the same clothing as BG?
4. Why aren’t more violent crimes by the cult mentioned in the media?

In response to 4. there are lots of interracial couples, why stop killing at Abby & Libby? Why didn’t they just kill Anna’s boyfriend instead of killing Abby?

Why kill Libby at all? Why not wait until Abby was alone? If BH hadn’t met Abby, how did he know her mom was dating a black guy? Was she actually dating a black guy?

 

[Trebor5591]

Right - i certainly don't trust quite a few of the contentions in the document.

I remain unconvinced by the document. I do not see that it exonerates RA as being the man on the bridge that ordered the girls down the hill to their murders.

jmo

IMO, wouldn't it be possible to determine the height of BG in the video? If it is determined that BG was 5 ft 4 inches (RA's height) then I would think the matter of his guilt would be confirmed. But I think I recall LE saying that the murderer was 5 ft 8. 4 inches in height difference is quite a lot.

Also, has LE got RA on tape saying "Down the hill"? Analysis of his voice and the voice of BG on Libby's video should be strong evidence that RA either is or is not BG. JMO

 

[Salah11]

If it was about Abby then why was Libby subjected to more of the brunt force of the attack?


I still come back to RA’s Daughters uncanny resemblance to Libby and then you read the crime scene and it reads like Libby was the target IMO

 

[SkylarSid]

what the what?? I've been busy with clients all morning and just was reading my local news when I saw this:

(NBC CHICAGO) - Attorneys representing Richard Allen, the man charged with killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana, in 2017, filed court documents on Monday asserting the girls died in a "ritualistic sacrifice" by white nationalists who practice a Norse pagan religion.
[snip]
Early on in the investigation, authorities consulted with a Purdue University professor concerning what resembled possible Odinism signatures left behind at the crime scene, the defense attorneys wrote. But that angle was "essentially abandoned" after the professor told law enforcement "it was not Odinism or any type of cult worshipping or any type of group that would have conducted the crime," as stated in the filing.

According to the memorandum, as of Sept. 7, the investigators claim they can't identify who the purported professor is, have no reports from the purported professor and have indicated they may never be able to figure out who the person is.
https://www.wandtv.com/news/delphi-murders-victims-died-in-ritual-sacrifice-by-white-nationalists-practicing-odinism-defense/article_21c99824-56ee-11ee-936f-2ffa161991d1.html

So are investigators saying no such professor was consulted and defense has made this up form whole cloth or . . .

and why does the defense suggest white nationalists would sacrifice these two specific Caucasian girls? I'm not being Facetious here, I don't get this at all. Granted I don't know much about Odinism pagan practices and less about white nationalists. What I do know about the pagan practices is that on special occasions animals were sacrificed and eaten. What I think I know about white nationalists is that they have issues with non white persons and dilution of their own blood. None of which explains why this attorney suggests the girls were murdered by one of these groups. The finding of sticks that resemble runes seems pretty slim to me. Heck, I've been out hiking in the woods and created runelike structures. I have never even considered killing two teens.

This feels very much like let’s throw something at the wall and find a new boogieman to turn attention away from the man who has apparently CONFESSED several times. MOO

Interestingly, this had been reported on and discussed very early on here at Websleuths, then it became a verboten topic since it was not in MSM.

 

[rosesfromangels]

For a long time I have suspected the crime scene was intended to be photographed/video'ed. That would be a good reason to commit the crime in the daylight.

While I don't know a dang thing about ritual murders by racist cults, I would think that daylight wouldn't be the first choice.

jmo

That type of content would fetch big $ on the dark web. It would be interesting to see RA’s financial forensics, and if there are any unexplained large influxes of revenue.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Betty P]

Random thought I had:

I’ve been wondering why RA came forward to begin with and why he admitted to being there. I wonder if HE recognized one of the 3 witnesses and thought they recognized him so he tried to get ahead of being placed at the crime scene.

IMO, wouldn't it be possible to determine the height of BG in the video? If it is determined that BG was 5 ft 4 inches (RA's height) then I would think the matter of his guilt would be confirmed. But I think I recall LE saying that the murderer was 5 ft 8. 4 inches in height difference is quite a lot.

Also, has LE got RA on tape saying "Down the hill"? Analysis of his voice and the voice of BG on Libby's video should be strong evidence that RA either is or is not BG. JMO

In the Pat Brown video I linked on the last page, she pointed out some problems with claiming the "Odinist" man is BG.

In her video, she posts a photo of the Odin guy that she found on his FB page, posted on the day of the murders. His beard is obviously much larger and fuller that BG's.

Pat also said that a good portion of the defense filing read like it came from some true crime folks on You Tube and social media. Defense team knows their "market" so to speak - people who will spread their version of the story and keep the discussion going a long time.

She also mentioned that the cell phone recording had BG talking to the girls and giving them orders. The girls knew the Odinist man personally. They would have recognized him and responded verbally when he approached and ordered them "down the hill".

 

[Megnut]

That type of content would fetch big $ on the dark web. It would be interesting to see RA’s financial forensics, and if there are any unexplained large influxes of revenue.

Amateur opinion and speculation

If there was financial gain to be had (snuff film meets csam), perhaps he never got paid. Not like he can go to the police/court and say bad guys shafted him when he commit the crime.

Potential motive there, however.

Jmo

 

[Havingacrisis]

If it was about Abby then why was Libby subjected to more of the brunt force of the attack?


I still come back to RA’s Daughters uncanny resemblance to Libby and then you read the crime scene and it reads like Libby was the target IMO

What about it makes you believe Libby got the brunt force of the attack? It seems they were both murdered the same way, but Abby was cleaner and redressed after. And then some staging. Do you think the blood apparent at the scene indicates something about the particulars of the attack? Genuine question

 

[Inthedetails]

That type of content would fetch big $ on the dark web. It would be interesting to see RA’s financial forensics, and if there are any unexplained large influxes of revenue.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Maybe the goal wasn't money necessarily but fetish? idk.

If RA committed the murders with a goal of creating images (which I find more believable than cult sacrifice), that means he's connected to a network. He would need to know where to distribute or even to get the idea in the first place. I bought the KK connection though nothing seems to have come of that. I really thought that lead would pull it all together.

I would not be surprised by further arrests (today would be a good day), but the cult thing seems way more of a stretch than a CSAM link.

jmo

 

[Jade]

Maybe those mentioned should bring legal action///OH NO...That would mean really looking into those mentioned , wouldn't it? I recall the grandmother of one of the victims brought one of those names to the LE early on...I consider that enough of a reason to believe there was concern...

The document confirms they did look into H.

They listened to BP and investigated.

H has an alibi.

LE could not place him at the scene.

RA placed himself at the park on the bridge at the time of the girls going missing.



H was looked into already so it is more likely if he doesn’t lodge complaints it’s because he doesn’t have enough cause to do so.

Defamation is Tort, I believe, so a civil case. H would look into a personal injury attorney for libel since the document was released to the public.



all imo

 

[Havingacrisis]

Members of LE and apparently the fbi noticed a connection of this case to odinism. That evidence isn’t made up. Something is truly incredibly strange about this investigation. How are these things waved away?

witness statements that show liggett lying?

 

[Salah11]

What about it makes you believe Libby got the brunt force of the attack? It seems they were both murdered the same way, but Abby was cleaner and redressed after. And then some staging. Do you think the blood apparent at the scene indicates something about the particulars of the attack? Genuine question

Please Ignore if you don’t want to read about the crime scene


So Libby had been painted by her own blood. Also then not covered up so taken away all her dignity in death.
Also Libby’s blood was all over the crime scene so feels like they played with her blood or body ( or both). Did I read it correctly that Libby was almost decapitated by her neck wound as well ( I don’t want to go back and read it again)

To me everything I read pointed to Libby being subjected to the worse of the attack and then ended it by taking all away all her dignity in death.

IMO

 

[mrjitty]

I've never been convinced that RA actually said in his interview with DNR DD that he was on the trail from 1:30-3:30. Now we find out from the memorandum that DD got RA's name wrong and that's probably why it was lost for all those years. He also could not find his recording of the convo.

Right but it is hard to interpret the note - which is the only contemporaneous record, consistently with him leaving at 1.30???

The defence says that the times are merely a range, not that he was there the whole time, but then also says he was not even there at the time.

Frankly I prefer the prosecution evidence here, even if the name is wrong. Indeed we have two pieces of corroborating evidence that the 1.30 time at least is correct. IMO it is a reasonable inference that his car was the one parked there at 2.15pm

 

[Havingacrisis]

Please Ignore if you don’t want to read about the crime scene


So Libby had been painted by her own blood. Also then not covered up so taken away all her dignity in death.
Also Libby’s blood was all over the crime scene so feels like they played with her blood or body ( or both). Did I read it correctly that Libby was almost decapitated by her neck wound as well ( I don’t want to go back and read it again)

To me everything I read pointed to Libby being subjected to the worse of the attack and then ended it by taking all away all her dignity in death.

IMO

I think that’s a fair assessment to make of the situation. I can conceive of a possibility that a lot of this could be dressing of the scene, given what has been released about it. But that in itself doesn’t mean she didn’t get the brunt of the violence

 

[Inthedetails]

Members of LE and apparently the fbi noticed a connection of this case to odinism. That evidence isn’t made up. Something is truly incredibly strange about this investigation. How are these things waved away?

witness statements that show liggett lying?

Investigations follow many leads, especially in the beginning. LE doesn't know who the perp is, of course, so they have to look in several directions during the course of investigation until the fact lead them to the correct suspect(s). Since there is an active group of Odinists in the area and sticks and branches seem to be a connection, it seems logical LE would look at Odinists, in addition to the many other leads they looked at.

Maybe Odinists are involved, but just because LE looked into the group doesn't mean the group is responsible.

jmo

 

[Havingacrisis]

Investigations follow many leads, especially in the beginning. LE doesn't know who the perp is, of course, so they have to look in several directions during the course of investigation until the fact lead them to the correct suspect(s). Since there is an active group of Odinists in the area and sticks and branches seem to be a connection, it seems logical LE would look at Odinists, in addition to the many other leads they looked at.

Maybe Odinists are involved, but just because LE looked into the group doesn't mean the group is responsible.

jmo

Yes. I’m saying this because many are saying the link is ridiculous, like throwing mud at the wall. but it’s noted that multiple people investigating this crime continued to make these links for a long time, commenting on similarities they saw themselves

 

[Inthedetails]

Yes. I’m saying this because many are saying the link is ridiculous, like throwing mud at the wall. but it’s noted that multiple people investigating this crime continued to make these links for a long time, commenting on similarities they saw themselves

The investigation that includes the Odinists is not ridiculous, but, imo, the defense document filed this week is.

jmo

 

[Betty P]

Members of LE and apparently the fbi noticed a connection of this case to odinism. That evidence isn’t made up. Something is truly incredibly strange about this investigation. How are these things waved away?

witness statements that show liggett lying?

The state probably won't respond to these allegations until the trial. By law, the defense is allowed to be somewhat untruthful in their filings. It's called "arguing in the alternative".

Argument in the alternative - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've never heard of a judge allowing them to blatantly make a false statement about the prosecution, though. But they can phrase it in such a way that they're arguing various alternatives for who committed the crimes and why the state is accusing the wrong person.

A lot of judges don't allow this kind of thing. Many would issue a gag order. Recently this was done in the trials of the Wagner family who murdered 8 members of the Rhoden Family in Pike County, OH. Everyone here followed the pretrial phase of the first trial for years before ever hearing most of the details of the murders, evidence and crime scenes at trial.

Prosecutors seek gag order in case of Pike County matriarch and Rhoden family murders

Prosecutors have filed a motion to prevent Fredericka Wagner, the matriarch of a family accused in the execution-style killings of eight people in southern Ohio, from talking publicly about her case and the charges.

www.cleveland.com

Even with the gag order, defense attorneys for Jake Wagner kept trying to talk about their version of events and evidence during pre-trial hearings.

 

[Havingacrisis]

The investigation that includes the Odinists is not ridiculous, but, imo, the defense document filed this week is.

jmo

The document raises some points to the investigation that ask big questions and shed some concerning light over it. The parts that are supported with exhibits and evidence have changed my perspective on it quite a bit