IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[photographer4]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link? TIA

Yes. It was in the docs released by the defence earlier this week. What page? I don’t recall. I will look for it from my desktop where it’s saved and get back to you.

 

[justtrish]

I haven't read the entire 136 pages, yet, but a good portion of it and read the thread here discussing much of what is in it.

I am trying to keep an open mind in case even part of this document holds some truth.

Things I am having a hard time with would be why did no witnesses see any of these other people that day on the trails, near the trails, or on the road, etc. Witnesses have seen RA AND he admitted being there that day, he looks like BG and he sounds like the recording Libby took. So let's say RA was only BG and he took the girls to this location for some other people to do the awful things that were done. Why were none of them seen that day by any witnesses? It was a nice day, many people were out and many people saw RA, but no witness saw another guy or group of guys that could have been doing this cult ritual double murder killing right there near a busy trail?

I also have a hard time believing the massive conspiracy that would have had to taken place in order for RA to have zero to do with this crime and yet be arrested for it. So many people would know these Odin cult members did this and everyone would be just keeping quiet about it and living in this small town for all these years saying nothing. Police officers, prison guards, and other members of society just keeping this massive secret and then when they arrest a guy they are basically taunting him in prison with the patches and he confesses to his wife because he's afraid of them? Then several of those named people did have alibis so they all somehow faked the solid alibi.. left work and managed to not have that known, one guy mentally very much on a young child level is just sharing all the "facts" and in all these years police just don't take it seriously. I tend to believe it's because they know he wasn't involved or know that the details provided were just not facts and maybe somewhat rumors that have some truth, but were not a first hand account that could proven to be only known by a killer.

Also the sister passing a polygraph is easy enough if she relayed exactly what her brother said. Just because he told her stuff doesn't make him a killer and her passing the polygraph just means she was told something by him and she believed it. So that doesn't mean she passed so he's the killer.

 

[Inthedetails]

Oh I agree! But how did RA know they were Odins or know to be worried about this fact at all? He hadn’t yet been told there was an Odin angle to his case by the lawyers. The lawyers say he isn’t affiliated with the odins. So when and how did RA become aware of Odins and fearful of them?

I had never heard of Odins before. I had no idea about some of the things they are into or their ties to white supremacy etc. I didn’t recognize their signs or symbols aside some of the Ruins being discussed and only then in a very basic way.

So to me, he has a reason to fear them - I’d like to know what the reason is? Are they involved? Have they been framed (the Odins) or have they just decided to become terrorists?

If Odins did it, why would they leave calling cards like a bunch of stick runes and "easter eggs" on social media that point to them? I'm not following the logic to wave their hands and say, "We did it!"

LE investigated the Odin lead and didn't make arrests. Who knows, maybe LE will make another arrest and the next person is an Odin. That doesn't exclude RA from committing the crimes.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

Maybe RA was part of the group? Remember how DC always said he was not sure RA acted alone. Everyone thought, with RL, who was dead, but maybe with the group of…these?

BTW, all RL’s behavior can be so well explained if these were odinites. Obviously he was scared and preferred jail. And then, “maybe someone won’t kill in my backyard” to KF? I wonder what KF knew? He was supposed to understand the hint.

Actually since you brought up RL again, I have always wondered since we found out about his asking his cousin to alibi him: what did he know and when did he know it?

Did he see something in the crime scene that he didn’t report? Didn’t want to be involved? Did he have any idea of rituals possibly (alleged!) to have been taking place in his literal backyard? Did he fear the Odins?

 

[chaz]

I have a question for the legal experts,
If a defendant asks to file a motion like this with lots of BS, can a lawer refuse to do so because of the BS or does he has to follow his client's request?

 

[NeverPersonal]

I think the defense lawyers are taking advantage of the fact that many Americans have sadly fallen into straight up conspiracy-frenzy thinking. IMO

 

[photographer4]

That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. Do you have a link? TIA

Here you go (from the docs released this week by the Defence, Page 34, point 12).

"12. The autopsy notes taken by Liggett reveal that the pathologist stated that because of the particular vein that was severed, Abby suffered a “slow death.26”

 

[Ekliptika]

At the link within the article below, page 110, it clearly says that LG's phone was found underneath her body.

In the D's memorandum, it says the phone was found underneath A's body. It also says A was dressed in L's jeans and sweatshirt, the very ones we saw A wearing in the bridge photo (unless I'm wholly mistaken and L did have jeans and a sweatshirt).

How can things be so inconsistent?

Delphi Documents Released

I have been wondered about the same thing ever since I read the memorandum. What is true - was the phone found underneath Libby or Abby? Libby sounds more logical to me, so no need to speculate why is was found underneath Abby until this is confirmed.
Same with the clothing. Memorandum says A was dressed in L’s sweatshirt. To me, this is not Strange as Kelsi is saying in the DTH podcast that the girls left home without any coats, so she gave them some sweatshirts that was in the car. So I always assumed that the grey ziphoodie A is wearing on L’s picture on the bridge was either Libby’s or Kelsie. So ofcourse A was wearing L`s sweatshirt. I am also not convinced that A was dressed by the killer, not until I hear this confirmed by a more official source likeLE or the prosecutors.

 

[photographer4]

Per my memory of biology and anatomy classes, the human neck has both arteries and veins. If the Memorandum in Support of Motion is correct, Abby had only a vein severed, not an artery, and so blood loss wasn't catastrophic with near immediate death. With only a vein cut, blood loss was less and it took her more time to die, poor child. :-( MOO.

This made me wonder actually, could the perpetrator of the attack against Abby have KNOWN that he was severing a vein vs an artery and that this would lead to a slower exsanguination?

 

[LouLab]

The problem for the defense is that LE already fully investigated BH. They're going to have to convince jurors that LE didn't do so. In a courtroom, where they can't make stuff up, that will be extremely difficult to do. JMO

Did they? I have alot of doubts about that based on things written on many threads over the course of these years...and I would love to be convinced that he was really fully vetted. JMO

 

[photographer4]

IMO, this was the most intriguing evidence the defense mentioned related to any of the people they were pointing at. He apparently confessed at different times to two of his sisters. And included that crime scene detail. He also asked LE if he would be in trouble if his spit was found on one of the girls.

However, without seeing pictures it's impossible to know how real that 'crown of sticks' was. Maybe it was just some random sticks that the defense is now characterizing as a crown to match his confession. And people do confess to crimes they don't commit, as I'm sure the defense themselves will be arguing later on.

Given two people who have confessed, I'll personally go with the one we know was on the trails that day.

Even if those sticks were random (and I do not believe they were), he stated something to the effect of Abby being a troublemaker, and noted the horns. There is NO way he could have known that sticks were found at her head at all, unless he was there, or knew someone who was who had divulged crime scene details to him or someone he knew who then shared them with him. That is too detailed to be random in my opinion.

 

[photographer4]

If Odins did it, why would they leave calling cards like a bunch of stick runes and "easter eggs" on social media that point to them? I'm not following the logic to wave their hands and say, "We did it!"

LE investigated the Odin lead and didn't make arrests. Who knows, maybe LE will make another arrest and the next person is an Odin. That doesn't exclude RA from committing the crimes.

jmo

This is something that made me wonder too - if Odins did it, they're not looking to get singled out as bad guys in a child slaying, are they? And the named Odins in question, they appear to have been investigated and "cleared" (at least BH was early on according to this most recent doc). So is it then possible the scene was staged in a way to make the Odins look like they were guilty for this? Just because Odin symbols were present, doesn't make Odins responsible.

 

[Krazykatlady]

I also have a hard time believing the massive conspiracy that would have had to taken place in order for RA to have zero to do with this crime and yet be arrested for it. So many people would know these Odin cult members did this and everyone would be just keeping quiet about it and living in this small town for all these years saying nothing. Police officers, prison guards, and other members of society just keeping this massive secret and then when they arrest a guy they are basically taunting him in prison with the patches and he confesses to his wife because he's afraid of them? Then several of those named people did have alibis so they all somehow faked the solid alibi…

Oh, I agree with you. A huge conspiracy involving dozens of small town players and nobody, except EF, cracked after all these years?

 

[justtrish]

Even if those sticks were random (and I do not believe they were), he stated something to the effect of Abby being a troublemaker, and noted the horns. There is NO way he could have known that sticks were found at her head at all, unless he was there, or knew someone who was who had divulged crime scene details to him or someone he knew who then shared them with him. That is too detailed to be random in my opinion.

I think early on though there were "rumors" flying and I'd imagine even more so in the local area where people can just talk to one another. Did you hear xyz or I heard xyz and there were many people at the crime scene that could have told even one other person in confidence that then told others and somehow it got out as "rumor".. if this man is functioning at a much younger age than he actually is, then it's easy to see if he overhears any of this then he could then claim he saw it.. maybe trying to impress a group he was trying to fit in with. I don't know what did or didn't happen, but this is why LE tries to keep so many things quiet so if someone confesses they can interrogate that person and determine if they really were there and know details that nobody could have known. I'd think they talked to him and determined he definitely wasn't there or else I can't imagine they just don't arrest him. maybe they also could verify he was no where near the trails that day so no matter what he claimed it just couldn't have been him? We only know what the defense put in this document and of course they aren't going to include things like, this person was verified to be with so and so all day or seen on camera at xyz so he couldn't have been murdering the girls. The defense wants to just include what looks to be some wrong doing on the part of LE so they can eliminate the search warrant.

 

[HistoryNut]

To be honest, early articles said that AW wanted to meet with her BF that day, but he and his dad were at a farmer’s auction. Not questioning the alibi (or rather, questioning everything because I am skeptical of ISP), but everyone knew A&L were at the bridge, didn’t they invite people with them?

True. But something else that doesn't make sense to me is why did it take almost a year for the defense to come up with this new theory? It seems to me that they have been grasping at straws. IMO

 

[Krazykatlady]

Did they? I have alot of doubts about that based on things written on many threads over the course of these years...and I would love to be convinced that he was really fully vetted. JMO

I am not convinced BH was the perpetrator based on the defense’s narrative, but it does seem like maybe LE could have done more than check the time clock to clear a potential suspect.

But I don’t know - what is standard? If you’re ruling out suspects and one says “I was at work” and you check with the employer and time clock records show that they were at work that day … maybe that’s considered good enough and you cross that guy off the list and move on to the next.

IDK

 

[iamnotagolem]

Even if those sticks were random (and I do not believe they were), he stated something to the effect of Abby being a troublemaker, and noted the horns. There is NO way he could have known that sticks were found at her head at all, unless he was there, or knew someone who was who had divulged crime scene details to him or someone he knew who then shared them with him. That is too detailed to be random in my opinion.

While I hate to cite internet rumors as a source….those rumors about sticks being placed around Abby’s head have been circulating since the murders.

I’d be interested to know how many locals were shocked by the details and how many had already heard all of them.

 

[justtrish]

Did they? I have alot of doubts about that based on things written on many threads over the course of these years...and I would love to be convinced that he was really fully vetted. JMO

Why would they not fully vet him? This is where I really struggle with the idea of a conspiracy to pin this on RA just because of some other person that did it was being covered up for. There were many agencies helping, tips were being called in and BH publicly posted about Odinists things before and right after the crimes. If what he posted truly is exactly or very close to exactly how the girls were posed, I don't believe for a minute that LE didn't do every possible thing to rule him out or in. Why would they not? To cover up for this cult that committed a ritual killing of 2 young girls in their town? I have to believe even those that believe in this groups beliefs would not be okay with 2 young girls being murdered this way. It's bad enough that one person can get their head around committing a crime like this, but a group of people doing it and everyone keeping quiet and then the police knowing and covering for them? It really would be the most f'd up thing I've seen happen if this is really what occured.

 

[arielilane]

Is the defense so desperate to get RA out of Westville they would embellish or jeopardize the case with their recent filings?

Some of the information stated, is too precise to be made up, right? For example, one of the branches appeared to have its end cut off cleanly by some type of tool like an electric saw. So, imo, this was a planned event? I am no expert; however, did someone come to the trails that day with a plan? Why disclose all this info now? If RA is innocent and I'm not convinced he's guilty - why not wait for trial and prove your case. So back to my first sentence... is this all about getting him out of Westville?


moo

 

[iamnotagolem]

Is the defense so desperate to get RA out of Westville they would embellish or jeopardize the case with their recent filings?

Some of the information stated, is too precise to be made up, right? For example, one of the branches appeared to have its end cut off cleanly by some type of tool like an electric saw. So, imo, this was a planned event? I am no expert; however, did someone come to the trails that day with a plan? Why disclose all this info now? If RA is innocent and I'm not convinced he's guilty - why not wait for trial and prove your case. So back to my first sentence... is this all about getting him out of Westville?


moo

I think the likelihood of a cut branch being at the scene is pretty great. We have cut branches all over our property. We aren’t making runes, we just trim branches out of our way and leave them lay. It’s most likely the branch was just found there by RA.