IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[tlcya]

I don't expect Baldwin to be dismissed, but I do hope to see substantial sanctions.

His professional associate clearly should have known better and Mr. Baldwin himself should have been more careful about who he allowed to access to privileged info.

I have a pretty hefty dislike for Baldwin and so I want him punished. I find his whole grandstanding way of going about things distasteful. This distaste formed early on when he came in guns blazing and held a presser in an attempt to try this case in the press, which resulted in the very gag order he has yet again violated through his negligence. That distaste grew exponentially with his recent motion putting forth mystery Odinists as viable alternate suspects.

 

[Emma Peel]

I've teetered on it, but I think this could have been his first. He came with weapons yet parked where it would be impossible to get back to without coming out into the open. He committed the crimes despite being seen by people on the trail beforehand. He crossed the bridge and abducted them with no way of knowing if anyone else might enter the bridge at any point along the way. He crossed the creek and the spot they were killed is still partially visible from the bridge and a house. He left via the road.

I just think it seems totally haphazard, rushed, and risky. That's just my perspective of it, though, with no real knowledge. JMO.

JMO ... the opposite feeling here. (good example of how we all can see things differently; and why it's interesting to share and compare ...)

I find the perp to be infuriatingly calm, focused and competent.
I keep coming back to the significant advanced planning necessary for this double murder, staging, and perp's escape to be executed with the speed and efficiency required per the timeline provided by LE.

 

[Salah11]

I wonder if RA has lost any more weight as he seems to want to appear feeble and weak imo

 

[Emma Peel]

I get a sense that folks looking for the most punitive sanctions might be disappointed. Baldwin has lawyered up (with a decent one too IMO) and RA has submitted a memo ahead of the court hearing.

It would be a massive call by Gull to dismiss Baldwin. I'm not sure that she would want to seek to get the badly needed order and control of the case through this means. I think it will be more along the line of final warning and having that over him should calm things down. Could be very wrong though and it wouldn't shock me if she threw the full weight of the hammer at him (figuratively!) instead.

The stuff about the D memo I assume she is broadly happy with unless she is going to address that in court today. As much as I don't like the language and lack of professionalism (looks like it was written by an argumentative intern lol!), I could debate 'unsubstantiated scenarios' with you on the basis of what the D referenced to underpin these and conversely the things that the P have alleged which could easily be described as unsubstantiated too. I suspect Gull will leave the battle between those two points of view to the actual court trial to play out.

Today isn't about Abby & Libby but hopefully they will get their day soon (and we will learn the truth).

Oh ... there will be sharp WORDS.

Ears on the Prosecution. Or, maybe even - best to don ear protection if/when the Prosecution chimes in.

The Court is free to beat Counsel about the head, embarrass, sanction (hit the wallet), lock him for time out in the clink (contempt).

We'll see what the Court chooses, but ... there is no doubt - IMO - that the Prosecution is gonna get their licks in.

The only question I have is: Will Court choose to take argument in Chambers and make decision in front of camera.

 

[Bergmann]

JMO ... the opposite feeling here. (good example of how we all can see things differently; and why it's interesting to share and compare ...)

I find the perp to be infuriatingly calm, focused and competent.
I keep coming back to the significant advanced planning necessary for this double murder, staging, and perp's escape to be executed with the speed and efficiency required per the timeline provided by LE.

Thing is though on the face value of the P timeline and without further facts and evidence then I choose not to constrain thinking as to what P say happened.

There’s too many moving parts and too many unknowns. Some of these will probably escape being discovered - ie precisely what happened in those 22 hrs between abduction and the girls bodies being found. What is the MEs professional estimate of time of death? If they were moved - where from etc.

All I do know is that this doesn’t feel / sound like the perps first rodeo, but purely MOO (could probably find profiler citations with enough time).

 

[TL4S]

JMO ... the opposite feeling here. (good example of how we all can see things differently; and why it's interesting to share and compare ...)

I find the perp to be infuriatingly calm, focused and competent.
I keep coming back to the significant advanced planning necessary for this double murder, staging, and perp's escape to be executed with the speed and efficiency required per the timeline provided by LE.

I would agree. He seemed calm on the bridge and when he said, "G...DTH." It's totally plausible that there was planning involved, too, because he brought weapons to the trail. I know some folks say that it's common to carry a gun and knife, but IMO, it is not common to do so and then use them to abduct, undress, and murder two young girls. I ask myself...would he have tried to do the same if he didn't have those weapons on him that day?

He might have known what he wanted to do, whether at random or if he somehow had targeted the girls, but either way, maybe the planning stopped at bringing the weapons along and seeing how the cards fell. However much he planned, he couldn't have controlled the comings and goings of other people in the park, or who saw him or his vehicle. He couldn't plan for everything. But he also didn't apparently even TRY to keep himself from being seen before the crimes. He could have parked in a less conspicuous place, or walked through the woods instead of the trail, or not gone through with it once he knew his face had been seen by a group of girls. Clearly, his drive to commit the crimes was too strong to stop himself that afternoon, despite every obstacle he'd made for himself by not planning better. JMO.

It's scary to think about someone with these kinds of inclinations walking around, so powerfully drawn to act on those inclinations that they kind of don't even care (in the moment) about the risks. How do you stop someone like that?

 

[Justice101]

I wonder if RA has lost any more weight as he seems to want to appear feeble and weak imo

The last live video I saw of him (I wonder if it was yesterday or today) showed him regaining some weight... but I might be confusing that with an earlier court appearance.

 

[arielilane]

LIVE BLOG | Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen's hearing is set to begin in 10 minutes. Track the latest updates from inside the courtroom here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715062793701859697

Richard Allen attorneys announce withdrawal, leaving Delphi murders suspect without representation

The withdrawal comes two days after Indiana State Police said they would investigate an evidence leak, allegedly at the hands of one attorney's team members.

www.wthr.com

Latest updates from court​

1:15 p.m - Courtroom open to the public
1 p.m. - Victims family members arrive in court

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I get a sense that folks looking for the most punitive sanctions might be disappointed. Baldwin has lawyered up (with a decent one too IMO) and RA has submitted a memo ahead of the court hearing.

It would be a massive call by Gull to dismiss Baldwin. I'm not sure that she would want to seek to get the badly needed order and control of the case through this means. I think it will be more along the line of final warning and having that over him should calm things down. Could be very wrong though and it wouldn't shock me if she threw the full weight of the hammer at him (figuratively!) instead.

The stuff about the D memo I assume she is broadly happy with unless she is going to address that in court today. As much as I don't like the language and lack of professionalism (looks like it was written by an argumentative intern lol!), I could debate 'unsubstantiated scenarios' with you on the basis of what the D referenced to underpin these and conversely the things that the P have alleged which could easily be described as unsubstantiated too. I suspect Gull will leave the battle between those two points of view to the actual court trial to play out.

Today isn't about Abby & Libby but hopefully they will get their day soon (and we will learn the truth).

It is all about Libby and Abby. All of it.

I expect to be disappointed. A final warning would be meaningless in my opinion. Baldwin has already been warned once. He’s an adult and one warning should be enough.

 

[DeDee]

Longtime defense lawyer David Hennessy filed a memorandum on behalf of defense attorney Andrew Baldwin, arguing he should be able to remain counsel to Allen following a reported evidence leak at the hands of a staff member.
Public defenders Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rizzo are tasked with defending Allen against the charges he faces in the 2017 murders of Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14.
13News spoke with Hennessy prior to Thursday's hearing. Hennessy confirmed he is not joining Allen's case but is appearing as counsel for Baldwin. It is unclear whether Rozzi has representation.

 

[Emma Peel]

I would agree. He seemed calm on the bridge and when he said, "G...DTH." It's totally plausible that there was planning involved, too, because he brought weapons to the trail. I know some folks say that it's common to carry a gun and knife, but IMO, it is not common to do so and then use them to abduct, undress, and murder two young girls. I ask myself...would he have tried to do the same if he didn't have those weapons on him that day?

He might have known what he wanted to do, whether at random or if he somehow had targeted the girls, but either way, maybe the planning stopped at bringing the weapons along and seeing how the cards fell. However much he planned, he couldn't have controlled the comings and goings of other people in the park, or who saw him or his vehicle. He couldn't plan for everything. But he also didn't apparently even TRY to keep himself from being seen before the crimes. He could have parked in a less conspicuous place, or walked through the woods instead of the trail, or not gone through with it once he knew his face had been seen by a group of girls. Clearly, his drive to commit the crimes was too strong to stop himself that afternoon, despite every obstacle he'd made for himself by not planning better. JMO.

It's scary to think about someone with these kinds of inclinations walking around, so powerfully drawn to act on those inclinations that they kind of don't even care (in the moment) about the risks. How do you stop someone like that?

Correct he couldn't plan everything.

IMO, he planned what he could. Carried the weapons, carried clothing changes. He issued a firm demand ... also planned.

I feel like he planned the old bridge as a quiet, dead-end venue, with a quick path to a predetermined kill spot(s) ... that he'd already surveyed. Natural terrain cover - the bowl where bodies were found. I feel he had a level of confidence in these sights being public-free (from previous visits.)

I remain stupefied that the apparent RA personality is BG. He doesn't seem to have that confident, commanding, adaptable persona.

My cognitive dissonance over perceived personality characteristics is ultimately meaningless at this point where we literally know nothing about RA.

There several RL interviews, where I'd have no cognitive dissonance with the idea that he could pull off a BG. The problem there is ... with all the land surrounding ... RL would never plan to make his own property a crime scene.

Or would he? (crazy-makin')

JMHO

 

[arielilane]

24 photos at link

A cross for Abby Williams and Libby German sits in the snow along the Monon High Bridge Trail, Wednesday, Feb. 10, 2021 in Delphi. Abby Williams and Libby German, both Delphi eighth-graders, were murdered while hiking a popular community trail near Delphi on Feb. 13, 2017.

WATCH LIVE: Richard Allen, accused in Delphi murders, appears in Allen County court

Watch the Court TV footage of a hearing for Richard Allen, accused in the killings of Delphi teens Libby German and Abby Williams.

www.indystar.com

 

[arielilane]

WATCH LIVE: Delphi Murders Case — IN v. Richard Allen — Hearing, Evidence Leaks​

The man accused of murdering two young Indiana girls is appearing in court today for a hearing regarding numerous motions filed by his defense team. Richard Allen stands accused of killing Abby Williams and Libby German in February 2017 on a remote hiking trail. The hearing will address recent photo leaks in the case that allegedly show the crime scene, among other motions.

 

[zh0r4]

Yes he filed a limited appearance. Lawyer has a lawyer! Updates are on docket if someone wants to grab them. I am on my phone so hard to do.

Memorandum Regarding Possible Disqualification or Sanctions

 

[arielilane]

WATCH LIVE: Richard Allen, accused in Delphi murders, appears in Allen County court https://indystar.com/story/news/crime/2023/10/19/court-tv-delphi-murders-hearing-richard-allen-indiana/71242002007/ via @indystar

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715067475484725571

 

[arielilane]

This afternoon, Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen will appear in court for a hearing. For the first time cameras are being allowed in the courtroom. Coverage begins at 2:30 p.m. click here to watch:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715071602096734616

 

[Emma Peel]

Thing is though on the face value of the P timeline and without further facts and evidence then I choose not to constrain thinking as to what P say happened.

There’s too many moving parts and too many unknowns. Some of these will probably escape being discovered - ie precisely what happened in those 22 hrs between abduction and the girls bodies being found. What is the MEs professional estimate of time of death? If they were moved - where from etc.

All I do know is that this doesn’t feel / sound like the perps first rodeo, but purely MOO (could probably find profiler citations with enough time).

When we challenge the Lone Wolf timeline presented by Prosecution ... we open the door for:
more than 2 crime scenes - some other crime scene between bridge and bodies

Estimated time of death may not be a tight range; it will be interesting to see if there's a different TOD estimate for each victim.

The search was started within 2 hours and searchers were heavy in the area of the crime scene.

 

[arielilane]

Richard Allen's attorneys quit TODAY. The hearing cannot go forward. Allen has been transported bck to jail.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715073194548228300

Court just started.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715072926192378058

 

[Justice101]

Correct he couldn't plan everything.

IMO, he planned what he could. Carried the weapons, carried clothing changes. He issued a firm demand ... also planned.

I feel like he planned the old bridge as a quiet, dead-end venue, with a quick path to a predetermined kill spot(s) ... that he'd already surveyed. Natural terrain cover - the bowl where bodies were found. I feel he had a level of confidence in these sights being public-free (from previous visits.)

I remain stupefied that the apparent RA personality is BG. He doesn't seem to have that confident, commanding, adaptable persona.

My cognitive dissonance over perceived personality characteristics are ultimately meaningless at this point where we literally know nothing about RA.

There several RL interviews, where I'd have no cognitive dissonance with the idea that he could pull off a BG. The problem there is ... with all the land surrounding ... RL would never plan to make his own property a crime scene.

Or would he? (crazy-makin')

JMHO

Phenomenal post! Exactly the way I feel.

He planned this out very well....committing almost the perfect crime in the perfect place had it not been for 2 things he would still be free.

1) Libby's quick thinking to video BG from her hip (or otherwise) as he approached. I have so much respect for the 2 girls but that act by Libby was pure courage and street smarts. That girl was a hero!

2) RA volunteering that he was on the trails that day and later said he was in the same suspect's clothing and also admitted he walked by the same group of teens and the woman. He came forward and place himself there.

Those 2 made his identity known, otherwise I don't think he would have ever been identified.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Richard Allen's attorneys quit TODAY. The hearing cannot go forward. Allen has been transported bck to jail.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715073194548228300

What the What???????????