IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[Teche]

Litigated against for misconduct isn't quite how I'd characterize it. They cite alleged misconduct in support of a poorly drafted memo begging for a Franks hearing based upon an incomplete review of discovery, and as D's often do...engage in throwing everything up against the wall to see what sticks.

That said, I was under the impression that a former employee of the D was being investigated...not the D themselves. It would seem somewhat logical that LE would want to do a somewhat deep dive to see what the leaker's motive was. I also suspect that any investigation into alleged leaks may have been taking place before the Franks memo was contemplated, let alone filed. Info appears to have been leaking out like a sieve for several months.

JMO

Were crime scene pictures or documents leaked? Was the leaker(s) trying to sell the information?

 

[zh0r4]

Question to anyone who knows - what’s the special significance of the letter “F” to Odinism beliefs?

If it’s supposed to serve as important proof of who committed the crime, why does the memo not explain WHY that is?

“The “F” symbol, the defense attorneys contend, is associated with Odinism beliefs.”

Attorneys for Richard Allen want client moved, lay out alternative theory of ‘ritualistic’ murder

DELPHI, Ind. – A ritualistic killing involving cultists. A conspiracy among prison guards. Investigators fixated on a single suspect. Those are among the stunning allegations made in court document…

fox59.com

Good question. I’m guessing the connection between the F rune and Odinism is because the runes were said to be written by Odin. The pronunciation of the runes was lost. The F rune = cattle traditionally. The more new age belief applies pronunciation (Fehu, based on Icelandic pronunciation which is the closest to Old Norse) to the rune and added wealth to its symbology. I am unsure if the Nordic rune itself is the connection to Odinism or if there was something more the D didn’t cover? JMO

 

[Teche]

From the MS Podcast - MW the 'leaker' was tough to listen to. On one hand he's regaling stories of his past with AB, their strategies on other cases which would develop at the last minute oftentimes, about honesty and ethics, and now we know he's been caught in a big ole' fat lie and a huge, illegal activity of his own.

MW NEVER even passed the bar exam, he's not a licensed attorney. That tells me all I need to know about this dude. To what degree did AB know or was involved, I think more than being caught completely unaware by some 'trusted friend', but who knows at this point?

These photos were leaked to several other people and also MS. I suspect we will see some charges come out of this and it sickens me that anybody in connection with the Defense would do such an unethical, exploitative, and heartless thing.

JMO

I'm dense…who’s MW?

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm dense…who’s MW?

Former Baldwin firm employee/associate that allegedly grabbed the CS photos from Balwin's office and Leaked them to "R".

 

[MistyWaters]

Were crime scene pictures or documents leaked? Was the leaker(s) trying to sell the information?

Both were leaked, including future defense strategy apparently. Nothing has been said about attempts to profit.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I just finished listening to the MS podcast with MW and he did not do the defense team any favors in that interview.I had to break it up into several pieces to get through it all.
The words he used to describe the office environment gave the impression of being - lax, casual atmosphere. Also, he seems to always make it seem that AB was seeking his input and validation which I find odd considering MW failed the bar.
To think he went on to be the compliance manager at another business blew me away.
Hindsight is 20/20 but wow this guy.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is strictly JMO, but in the new MS episode with MW, I feel like we might be getting a hint at a possible motivation for the leak, although MW might not have known that at the time of the interview (March). Beginning around mm 00:58:00 and up to nearly the end, he delves into the importance of defense attorneys in keeping LE and prosecutors in check. He talks quite a bit about LE, specifically, not doing things correctly, construing things the way they want, and how much power they and the prosecutors have in small towns. IDK...he even says he and his "friends" talk a lot about it.

Just looking at the timing of the leak around the Franks hearing, it makes sense to me that he was likely supporting the D (in regards to the Franks issues), and when he had the opportunity, he shared photos and strategies with another trusted friend (R), most likely because they shared an interest in the case (or he knew R had an interest), but maybe even more so because of a shared distrust of some of LE or the prosecutor involved with Delphi. JMO. Of course it's unethical, on every level, but I'm seeing a potential "why" in there...

JMO, but I don't think it was MW's intention to spread the leak far and wide (it was still wrong, obviously).

To your point, unethical on every level. Noticing the tone of these messages, it just doesn’t quite jive with MW stopping by for a chat with his old friend AB, who unknowingly provides brief access to swipe unsecured crime files.

It sounds as if MW was deeply integrated in this case.

BBM

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

“In those messages, the Indiana participant writes, “defense just got girls phone records,” and, “they are saying that there is stuff good for Rick.”

In another message from earlier this month, the Facebook author writes he is supposed to go to Franklin during the upcoming weekend and that he just wants, “a fair fight,” for the defense while blasting the prosecution.

That was followed up by a handful of messages from Oct. 5 as the same participant refers to, “my guy,” and, “He’s going to be with Andy tonight. He was talking about me going down Saturday.”

There are also messages where the sender asks the recipient to, “protect me,” in the release of evidentiary items as the two correspondents discuss how best to cover their tracks while referring, presumably, to an individual involved in the inadvertent leak of defense evidence last spring..”

 

[sunshineray]

Good question. I’m guessing the connection between the F rune and Odinism is because the runes were said to be written by Odin. The pronunciation of the runes was lost. The F rune = cattle traditionally. The more new age belief applies pronunciation (Fehu, based on Icelandic pronunciation which is the closest to Old Norse) to the rune and added wealth to its symbology. I am unsure if the Nordic rune itself is the connection to Odinism or if there was something more the D didn’t cover? JMO

I googled it and in trying to understand it, this is what I got...

F = Fehu the Good Luck rune and it can be used as a powerful talisman. Fehu is closely connected with hamingja.

The hamingja, is considered a personal entity, a female guardian type spirit and one part of a person's self. "She" helps a person decide their luck/happiness. Hamingja can be detached from the other parts of one's self in certain circumstances. I know not what those ciecumstances are, didn't want to read anymore.

I did also notice it being mentioned that the ancient meaning of runes can differ somewhat from the more modern beliefs.

Now what significance anyone gives that in looking to associate it with the Delphi murders is up to interpretation.

 

[Emma Peel]

I just finished listening to the MS podcast with MW and he did not do the defense team any favors in that interview.I had to break it up into several pieces to get through it all.
The words he used to describe the office environment gave the impression of being - lax, casual atmosphere. Also, he seems to always make it seem that AB was seeking his input and validation which I find odd considering MW failed the bar.
To think he went on to be the compliance manager at another business blew me away.
Hindsight is 20/20 but wow this guy.

haven't listened; thank you for doing the listen and reporting.

A little odd ... the way that MS feels compelled to share looooong recordings of the subject of an LE Leak investigation rather than giving that stuff to LE ... but perhaps they know something we don't know ...

curiouser and curiouser

 

[sunshineray]

This is strictly JMO, but in the new MS episode with MW, I feel like we might be getting a hint at a possible motivation for the leak, although MW might not have known that at the time of the interview (March). Beginning around mm 00:58:00 and up to nearly the end, he delves into the importance of defense attorneys in keeping LE and prosecutors in check. He talks quite a bit about LE, specifically, not doing things correctly, construing things the way they want, and how much power they and the prosecutors have in small towns. IDK...he even says he and his "friends" talk a lot about it.

Just looking at the timing of the leak around the Franks hearing, it makes sense to me that he was likely supporting the D (in regards to the Franks issues), and when he had the opportunity, he shared photos and strategies with another trusted friend (R), most likely because they shared an interest in the case (or he knew R had an interest), but maybe even more so because of a shared distrust of some of LE or the prosecutor involved with Delphi. JMO. Of course it's unethical, on every level, but I'm seeing a potential "why" in there...

JMO, but I don't think it was MW's intention to spread the leak far and wide (it was still wrong, obviously).

I thought it was said the leaker very close to the D (now known as MW) shared it with numerous people, not just R. Do you know, is that wrong?

 

[sunshineray]

To your point, unethical on every level. Noticing the tone of these messages, it just doesn’t quite jive with MW stopping by for a chat with his old friend AB, who unknowingly provides brief access to swipe unsecured crime files.

It sounds as if MW was deeply integrated in this case.

BBM

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

“In those messages, the Indiana participant writes, “defense just got girls phone records,” and, “they are saying that there is stuff good for Rick.”

In another message from earlier this month, the Facebook author writes he is supposed to go to Franklin during the upcoming weekend and that he just wants, “a fair fight,” for the defense while blasting the prosecution.

That was followed up by a handful of messages from Oct. 5 as the same participant refers to, “my guy,” and, “He’s going to be with Andy tonight. He was talking about me going down Saturday.”

There are also messages where the sender asks the recipient to, “protect me,” in the release of evidentiary items as the two correspondents discuss how best to cover their tracks while referring, presumably, to an individual involved in the inadvertent leak of defense evidence last spring..”

So this MW wasn't the "inadventent" leaker last Spring?

 

[MistyWaters]

So this MW wasn't the "inadventent" leaker last Spring?

No AB admitted responsibility for that one.

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought it was said the leaker very close to the D (now known as MW) shared it with numerous people, not just R. Do you know, is that wrong?

I don’t think it’s known for sure if MW shared the leak with anyone other than R. But MS stated that R passed it along to “Mark” and at least one other person, a female. If the leak is still multiplying that may be why.

 

[Bergmann]

Am I remembering correctly that she tweeted a pic of the F tree?

Edit X’d or whatever. I’m not a member so I’m unable to search.

Don’t know. But I do see a gulf in journalistic quality and integrity between Down The Hill, and TMS.

 

[Bergmann]

but perhaps they know something we don't know ...

Sometimes it’s who you know rather than what you know.

Very interesting narrative change in MS over the last 6 months IMO.

 

[Bergmann]

Given the tussle over the SW and presumably the evidence gathered therefrom, I can’t help but wonder what else is there which we can’t infer from a simple list that is maybe lying deeper within. Maybe this is something that the P have had and the D only just discovered from testing the items recovered, eg like the phones. Could be things like location data, search history, messages etc.

Like most of this stuff, and the various actions of both legal teams, I find it’s helpful to play it both ways to try to uncover what it might be or mean. It’s too easy to mislead yourself by trying to fit everything to a single fixed conclusion. The mental gymnastics often required just won’t be credible when you stand back and look at it.

But is there something possibly damning within those recovered items and what could it be?

 

[M. Kay]

helpful to play it both ways to try to uncover what it might be or mean. It’s too easy to mislead yourself by trying to fit everything to a single fixed conclusion.

I'm guessing each one of us can take a moment of inventory with this wise post. If we all got a hold of what has all those tentacles just "once and for all" ...

 

[mrjitty]

I suppose this is what I am uncomfortable with

It seems the judge had scheduled a hearing to hear arguments on sanctions. Why else would Baldwin have his own counsel who was filing a motion in response to what exactly?

This was also then to televised??? Perhaps because it was going to be a different hearing originally????

Then the whole hearing happened in chambers with still no official record of anything filed.

And the defendant has no counsel.

This strikes me as highly unsatisfactory. Why was Baldwin not required to make his application for removal in court so at least that would be on the record? And then the matter adjourned for Rozzi to make a similar application?

Instead the judge simply appeared to tell us her cryptic version of what happened.

What could be so urgent that Baldwin had to leave in such an informal manner? Why not make him at least file his application?

And why was the defendant not heard? Surely defendant should have been asked whether he agreed to release Baldwin?

This is a hot mess IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I think there will be damning evidence in the electronic devices recovered during the SW. Minimal google searches and where RA lurked online, more damning would be evidence of photos/videos uploaded- shared and then deleted.
This lead me to another thought. What if the crime scene was leaked within the 1st 30 hours of the girls going missing? Turned up on the dark web shared or other internet dark spaces. The FBI would be tasked to determine if the photos were from the time of the murders or after and the source. I am sure that would have been a difficult task. Having leaks occur in the interim just makes their job more burdensome.

 

[MistyWaters]

I suppose this is what I am uncomfortable with

It seems the judge had scheduled a hearing to hear arguments on sanctions. Why else would Baldwin have his own counsel who was filing a motion in response to what exactly?

This was also then to televised??? Perhaps because it was going to be a different hearing originally????

Then the whole hearing happened in chambers with still no official record of anything filed.

And the defendant has no counsel.

This strikes me as highly unsatisfactory. Why was Baldwin not required to make his application for removal in court so at least that would be on the record? And then the matter adjourned for Rozzi to make a similar application?

Instead the judge simply appeared to tell us her cryptic version of what happened.

What could be so urgent that Baldwin had to leave in such an informal manner? Why not make him at least file his application?

And why was the defendant not heard? Surely defendant should have been asked whether he agreed to release Baldwin?

This is a hot mess IMO

Is was a Memordandom/Brief that Hennessy file, not a motion. But you’re right, AB had to have known in advance the Judge was going to deal with the leak that day.

Without knowing what came down I think it can’t be assumed the Judge planned for the leak issue to be dealt with behind closed doors. Perhaps the D requested a meeting in her chambers and it wasn’t acceptable to them that any or all of their transgressions to be heard in public. Apparentky AB didn’t later appear in the courtroom at all. Perhaps he told the Judge to stuff it where the sun don’t shine and stormed off. In a case such as that I doubt she’d be forced to wait for a formal letter of withdrawal.

Regardless of RA’s preference, defense under duress isn’t fair to anybody let alone the defendant. What would come next - wheel over the entire discovery file to the Daily Mail?

My opinion is they also learned in chambers the Franks Hearing was not going to be approved. So much had been riding on that happening, this case was becoming more trouble than it was worth and tempers flaired. I don‘t recall where I read it but someone attending court said they thought they heard loud voices.

JMO