IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[M. Kay]

Thanks for this logan warrant. I also hadn't seen it before.

Q: When and how LE determined that RL was no longer a suspect? Did the fish store timeline provide the alibi that cleared RL?

New (for me) information from this 2017 warrant:
- the voice saying "down the hill" was at the end of the 43 second recorded video.
- victim's bodies revealed no struggle or fight
- 2 witnesses who were interviewed and quoted in this warrant - with close long-term relationships w/ RL - told LE that the think the photo of BG is a photo of RL.
- Fish store timeline established by a store receipt.

About once a year I've sent a reply about this subject, backing up with a solid source. I can no longer locate the source online, nor
well worded from memory. An FBI agent admitted (not long after) that she beefed up their search warrant because they needed to get in there pronto; she was named and a bit sorry.
We used to talk about RL dying without being 'vindicated' to this extent and I submit this respectfully for him and careful posting.

 

[MistyWaters]

They are not just looking out for him; they are also protecting our rights.

The secrecy that has gone on with this case needs to be dealt with; bad things can happen behind closed doors.

BTW there are millions of Americans who strongly believe in what you just called the "latest side show."

What is it if it’s not a side show apart from the trial for the murder of Libby and Abby?

 

[Emma Peel]

About once a year I've sent a reply about this subject, backing up with a solid source. I can no longer locate the source online, nor
well worded from memory. An FBI agent admitted (not long after) that she beefed up their search warrant because they needed to get in there pronto; she was named and a bit sorry.
We used to talk about RL dying without being 'vindicated' to this extent and I submit this respectfully for him and careful posting.

thank you kindly. i wasn't following during the RL- suspect timeline. but it only makes sense that there was a solid reason RL was - essentially - no longer of interest.

 

[FrostedGlass]

What is it if it’s not a side show apart from the trial for the murder of Libby and Abby?

I would never consider a Supreme Court appeal to be a side show.

 

[Emma Peel]

What is it if it’s not a side show apart from the trial for the murder of Libby and Abby?

Or ... this higher court process (should it be taken up) protects/confirms the integrity of the lower court process and the upcoming trial for the murder of Libby and Abby.

If the Appellate takes this up ... the review is limited to Gull's process and decisions.

 

[sunshineray]

IMO, it's a bad idea to pick an attorney with his points of view on the PCA and shell casing being right out there for everyone to hear. Especially since those are 2 very important issues for RA's case.

Here is a link to the interview; it's embedded in the article.

Fort Wayne attorney gives insight into Delphi developments

Fort Wayne defense attorney Robert Scremin sat down with WANE 15’s Alyssa Ivanson Tuesday after two big developments in the Delphi killings case.

www.wane.com

He probaly never thought in a million years he'd be chosen to serve RA. He said nothing about whether he believed any of the PCA science, he just commented on the science being used.
AJMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I would never consider a Supreme Court appeal to be a side show.

Maybe not you but I do. Legal arguments, regardless which court they’re held in is a side show to the principle reason most if not all of us are following this case.

RA’s trial very well could be years away.

 

[sunshineray]

Are we to expect the next happening is an RA hunger strike over the trusted ex-D who are no more?

”..Asserting his Sixth Amendment right, Allen had only consented and authorized Attorneys Rozzi and Baldwin to represent him in the trial court below and only they are authorized to made filings on his behalf.”

I was thinking about this too. Are his old lawyers even allowed communication with him as they are not representing him in the eyes of the court? And these three new attorneys, if hired by the old attorneys, are they allowed to speak directly with RA? RA may not know what's going on in his name? Does the court appointed new attorneys get access to the other 5 attorneys briefs and filings, in their client's name?

 

[Emma Peel]

New attorneys for Richard Allen ask Indiana Supreme Court to decide on access to court documents in Delphi murders case

The filing includes an Oct. 11 letter purportedly from Allen to the judge in which he claims he was made aware of the theft and still wanted to keep Baldwin and Bradley

...

In his filing, Rozzi then says says the judge then gave Rozzi and Baldwin two options:

• Voluntarily withdraw their appearances and exit the courthouse in advance of the hearing
• Participate in the 2 p.m. hearing, and the judge would read a prepared statement into the record and then disqualify both Rozzi and Baldwin in the presence of Allen, his family and the public.

According to the filing, the defense then spoke with Allen, who allegedly reaffirmed he wanted to continue being represented by Rozzi and Baldwin — and Allen allegedly still objects to the judge taking Baldwin and Rozzi off the case.
as his attorneys.

 

[MistyWaters]

I was thinking about this too. Are his old lawyers even allowed communication with him as they are not representing him in the eyes of the court? And these three new attorneys, if hired by the old attorneys, are they allowed to speak directly with RA? RA may not know what's going on in his name? Does the court appointed new attorneys get access to the other 5 attorneys briefs and filings, in their client's name?

Good questions. It’s all become a huge tangled mess, that’s for sure. It certainly appears the latest three are working on behalf of B&R.

 

[Emma Peel]

I was thinking about this too. Are his old lawyers even allowed communication with him as they are not representing him in the eyes of the court? And these three new attorneys, if hired by the old attorneys, are they allowed to speak directly with RA? RA may not know what's going on in his name? Does the court appointed new attorneys get access to the other 5 attorneys briefs and filings, in their client's name?

Per documents, Rozzi never stopped repping RA.
Caveat: We haven't seen Gull's Oct 12th order to RA's counsel to stop work on the case BUT:
A stop work order doesn't necessarily prevent Rozzi from speaking with his client regarding these administrative matters.
Rozzi was seen assisting RA's family visit RA and seen leaving the courtroom with RAs family.
Rozzi can speak to RA and still be in compliance w/ Gull's order to stop work on the case.
jmho

 

[sunshineray]

Good questions. It’s all become a huge tangled mess, that’s for sure. It certainly appears the latest three are working on behalf of B&R.

Yes but RA's name is included there, without his new attorneys names being listed. Like you said, what a mess.

 

[sunshineray]

Per documents, Rozzi never stopped repping RA.
Caveat: We haven't seen Gull's Oct 12th order to RA's counsel to stop work on the case BUT:
A stop work order doesn't necessarily prevent Rozzi from speaking with his client regarding these administrative matters.
Rozzi was seen assisting RA's family visit RA and seen leaving the courtroom with RAs family.
Rozzi can speak to RA and still be in compliance w/ Gull's order to stop work on the case.
jmho

But the judge's words, in court on Oct 19th and on the record, declared the old attorneys as off the case, no? And she also said new ones would be court appointed, which they have been.

 

[Emma Peel]

I'm going to take a wild guess that ... due to public interest in the integrity of all proceedings for the RA trial ... the Appellate Court will immediately take up this appeal from RA.

Whoever can keep an eye on the Appellate docket - we will see a response from the Court and possibly from the P filed to the Appellate docket in the next 24 hours.

 

[Emma Peel]

But the judge's words, in court on Oct 19th and on the record, declared the old attorneys as off the case, no? And she also said new ones would be court appointed, which they have been.

at this point, as far as Rozzi goes, it's a he said/she said with regard to Rozzi withdrawing.

Gull asserts Rozzi agreed to withdraw 10/19.

Rozzi asserts he absolutely did not, however on 10/19 he advised the Court that he'd respond to her invitation to withdraw in writing. And Rozzi did that, in his filings last week.

Gull rejected Rozzi's filing, with the rejection reason being that RA's withdrawal was already accepted as of the 19th.

 

[katydid23]

I don't think they ever actually made it on the internet. Weren't they turned over to MS who turned them over to LE before they were posted?

ETA for clarity: To date I have seen no evidence that the cs photos depicting the victims were ever posted online.

jmo

Various you-tube channels described the photos in great detail, and one popular channel made depictions of the photos, showing what they observed in the death photos. So they did make it online but in a new form. JMO

 

[O.Incandenza]

Wondering if we'll see the lower court 10/31 hearing rescheduled due to the interlocuter action.

3 new attorneys representing RA on this Appellate action - I'm guessing these attnys represent RA's desire to keep Rozzi (if not both Rozzi and Baldwin). And likely, RA desires a new Judge moving forward.

These 3 new attnys are each out of a different law firm. Are they appellate specialists? Gonna have a peek.

I doubt it.

The only relief that this petition asks for is an order from the Indiana Supreme Court requiring Judge Gull to follow the Access to Court Records rules and stop deleting and excluding items from the CCS without following the correct procedure. It doesn't ask them to reinstate Rozzi & Baldwin. So it doesn't really affect the upcoming hearing.

However, I wouldn't be shocked if there's another petition filed asking for R&B to be reinstated.

 

[sunshineray]

New attorneys for Richard Allen ask Indiana Supreme Court to decide on access to court documents in Delphi murders case




...

Wow so now the new attorneys are jumping on the prosecution requested gag order/file sealing and also on the judge professionally. Everyone is doing the stomp. Tomorrow's hearing may get canceled. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Various you-tube channels described the photos in great detail, and one popular channel made depictions of the photos, showing what they observed in the death photos. So they did make it online but in a new form. JMO

Yes and only dark others and LE investigators know whether they made it to numerous other places online.

 

[Emma Peel]

But the judge's words, in court on Oct 19th and on the record, declared the old attorneys as off the case, no? And she also said new ones would be court appointed, which they have been.

She verbally declared they voluntarily withdrew.
There appears to be a disagreement on this between Rozzi and Gull.

If Rozzi didn't withdraw, as Gull assumed he would, then Gull needs to decide to remove him.
I don't think we've seen Gull's decision remove him. We've only seen Gull's insistence that Rozzi withdrew.