IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[CGBSpender]

So he can be pleaded out? Or, the Franks motion dropped? I think people are starting to see a pattern here so I don't believe them being reinstated will harm his defense. I do believe them not being reinstated will carry a significant increased risk of harm though.

jmo

I guess I've thought this would likely be headed for plea eventually from the time I heard their client made alleged admissions, and was wetting down and eating discovery documents...call me crazy...I just have this feeling that there is something in the discovery that didn't sit well with RA when counsel dropped it off for him back in April...and I started thinking that trial may not be the best strategy for them (if it ever was). Hypothetically, if your client has no bargaining chip with which to engage in horse-trading...another strategy may be to simply bury your opponent in motions, run up a bill on their constituent's dime, make your opponent's life miserable, and hope that they sweeten the deal to make it stop.

If RA pleas out, and you retain the former D for that plea...RA I think may have a good argument for ineffective assistance of counsel on appeal...since they have a conflict of interest in advising him to plea, because an argument can be made that a plea reduces their malpractice exposure at this point.

JMO

 

[zh0r4]

One of the Supreme Court cases has been updated. As usual, the blue links are clickable and they take you to the actual document.

case # 23S-OR-00311

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

11/08/2023	Received Document Receive Date: 11/06/23 Appearance by Indiana Public Defender Council (Bernice Corley & Joel Schumm), Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief (certificate of service does not specify a method of service. PostmarkDate: 11/06/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Defect Issued Appearance, Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief of IPDC Party: Indiana Public Defender Council Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Rokita, Theodore Edward Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Serve: Schumm, Joel M. Issue Date: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted
11/08/2023	Order Issued Being duly advised, the Court ORDERS Respondents to either file a response to Relator's "Motion for Transcript" with the Clerk of this Court on or before Thursday, November 16, 2023, or to include the requested transcript as a supplemental record filed pursuant to Original Action Rules 3(C) and (G) and this Court's order of November 6, 2023. Judicial Officer: Rush, Loretta H. Serve: Gull, Frances M. Cutino Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Rokita, Theodore Edward Serve: Trial Clerk 08 - Carroll Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Supreme Court Public Information Officer File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Appearance Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Amendment of Certificates of Service Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Received Document Receive Date: 11/08/23 Brief of Amicus Curiae - IPDC - pending ruling on motion to appear. PostmarkDate: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Defect Cured Clerk Comments: Appearance, Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief of IPDC Party: Indiana Public Defender Council Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Serve: Schumm, Joel M. File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted

Thank you @FrostedGlass and @O.Incandenza, you rock!

Attached picture of SCOIN order below for easy viewing.

Sources:
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...3FhgtICSRjNTPROfRJCB1bWv1xH-6D80upBLkVb2ml1I1

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'

 

[Jurisprudence]

Thank you @FrostedGlass, you rock!

Attached picture of SCOIN order below for easy viewing.

Sources:
https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...3FhgtICSRjNTPROfRJCB1bWv1xH-6D80upBLkVb2ml1I1

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'

And @O.Incandenza!

jmo

 

[zh0r4]

One of the Supreme Court cases has been updated. As usual, the blue links are clickable and they take you to the actual document.

case # 23S-OR-00311

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

11/08/2023	Received Document Receive Date: 11/06/23 Appearance by Indiana Public Defender Council (Bernice Corley & Joel Schumm), Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief (certificate of service does not specify a method of service. PostmarkDate: 11/06/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Defect Issued Appearance, Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief of IPDC Party: Indiana Public Defender Council Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Rokita, Theodore Edward Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Serve: Schumm, Joel M. Issue Date: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted
11/08/2023	Order Issued Being duly advised, the Court ORDERS Respondents to either file a response to Relator's "Motion for Transcript" with the Clerk of this Court on or before Thursday, November 16, 2023, or to include the requested transcript as a supplemental record filed pursuant to Original Action Rules 3(C) and (G) and this Court's order of November 6, 2023. Judicial Officer: Rush, Loretta H. Serve: Gull, Frances M. Cutino Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Rokita, Theodore Edward Serve: Trial Clerk 08 - Carroll Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Supreme Court Public Information Officer File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Appearance Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Amendment of Certificates of Service Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae Certificate of Service- Electronically Served 11/08/23 Attorney: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Attorney: Schumm, Joel M. Party: Indiana Public Defender Council File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Received Document Receive Date: 11/08/23 Brief of Amicus Curiae - IPDC - pending ruling on motion to appear. PostmarkDate: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Notice of Defect Cured Clerk Comments: Appearance, Motion to Appear as Amicus Curiae & Brief of IPDC Party: Indiana Public Defender Council Serve: Wieneke, Cara Schaefer Serve: Leeman, Mark Kelly Serve: Sanchez, Angela Serve: Corley, Bernice Angenett Nickole Serve: Schumm, Joel M. File Stamp: 11/08/2023
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted
11/08/2023	Document Transmitted

Thank you again @FrostedGlass!

MOTION TO APPEAR AS AMICUS CURIAE, filed 11/8/2023 by Corley & Schumm
Attached below for easier viewing.

Source:

https://public.courts.in.gov/mycase...awDVDiXBlF6616Vd_7_r2HcEbMAddFgKsubaZ3hNMBSM1

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'

 

[zh0r4]

And @O.Incandenza!

jmo

Thank you, fixed!

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Wieners, of the authors of the WoMs, will be interviewed by Defense Diaries in an hour

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Jurisprudence]

Wieners, of the authors of the WoMs, will be interviewed by Defense Diaries in an hour

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

Fun fact: Members of the Indiana Disciplinary Committee include:

Cara S. Wieneke
Weineke Law Office, LLC
Brooklyn

Judicial Nominating / Qualifications Commission

www.in.gov

Note: Well, they call it commission in Indiana. Same thing.

 

[steeltowngirl]

So the SCOIN order seems straightforward. If I’m understanding it correctly, Gull must either provide a transcript by 11/16 or provide an answer to RA’s motion. Was the court reporter / stenographer not documenting the 10/19 ‘hearing that wasn’t a hearing’?

 

[Emma Peel]

So the SCOIN order seems straightforward. If I’m understanding it correctly, Gull must either provide a transcript by 11/16 or provide an answer to RA’s motion. Was the court reporter / stenographer not documenting the 10/19 ‘hearing that wasn’t a hearing’?

yup.
sounds easy peasy.

 

[Jurisprudence]

[sbm]

[sbm] because that post was full of some very strong allegations that I do not want to repeat. All I can say is that they have a member of the disciplinary committee, as well as members from around the state filing suit and amicus briefs in the state Supreme Court on their behalf, without them asking. If they were guilty of the allegations made in the post I do not believe members from the state disciplinary committee would stick their nose into this. Rather they probably would have declined - like the state AG did when he was asked to allow his office to represent another party in this matter.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

It isn’t prohibited for AB to discuss trial strategy with a friend. Nothing in the protective order or gag order states that they can only discuss the case with specific people. Gag order refers to dissemination of info to the public and protective order refers to actual access to discovery docs. If he’s talking about strategy or even case details with trusted friends that doesn’t break any rules or give grounds for punishment. JMO
edit: fixed typo

That's not the point though. The point is that if AB was discussing trial strategy with this ex employee, MW , and allowing him to wander around the inner office while sealed documents were laying around, then that makes MW part of the defense crew. He was working with them.

So that means that the leak came from the defense team, and not from some random intruder. And that makes it a leak FROM the defense team. JMO

 

[katydid23]

From the latest episode of MS, which was an interview with The Prosecutors, Brett and Alice, the one thing that jumped out at me the most was when Alice said she suspects there was NOT any recording of the in-chambers hearing, which clearly BR was aware of because he was there, and that's EXACTLY why he requested the recording/transcript. By requesting it, there would be no way for the judge to hide the fact that there is no recording, and since RA was not present in the chambers, there will be nothing on record to prove what exactly went down that day, either for the docket, or to show RA. That would be a huge problem if true.

Maybe someone here knows...if there really isn't any kind of record for that in-chambers meeting, is it possible that the judge and all attorneys present can testify to what happened, to make it part of the record?

A verified credentialed court reporter counts as a valid transcript, even without an audio recording. In chamber meetings rarely have audio/video recordings. It is usually a court reporter transcribing if anything. JMO




CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
I, Jodie L. Williams, an official reporter for the Allen Superior Court, Allen
County, Indiana, do hereby certify that I transcribed from electronic reporting
equipment all of the proceedings had at Status Hearing held on October 19, 2023, in said cause.
I further certify that the above and foregoing transcript is a full, true, and
complete copy of said proceedings.

WITNESS my hand and seal this day of November, 2023.
Jodie L. Williams, Reporter
Allen Superior Court

Record of Proceedings Volume 2.pdf​

 

[mrjitty]

I'm quite suspicions of Rozzi's particular wording.

He says Baldwin communicated with him (Rozzi) that he had communicated particulars of the case to MW, and had not authorised him to replicate the photos.

But it does not say whether MW was authorised to be in the conference room on that occasion, or on other occasions.

That's not the point though. The point is that if AB was discussing trial strategy with this ex employee, MW , and allowing him to wander around the inner office while sealed documents were laying around, then that makes MW part of the defense crew. He was working with them.

So that means that the leak came from the defense team, and not from some random intruder. And that makes it a leak FROM the defense team. JMO

Right. This is what I take from the defence filing. They actually don’t say his access to the materials was unauthorised rather that him stealing them was.

That suggests to me a situation more akin to a team member who stole the material and leaked it.

The business of Baldwin being on the phone at the time of the copying explains how MW was able to take photos but not how he got access.

I felt the recitals intentionally avoided dealing with these questions.

 

[mrjitty]

I am glad SCOIN will sort this mess out.

I am guessing in terms of remedy, there is little chance the bumbling duo are reinstated. However the process seemed defective to me. So that needs to be clarified so everyone understands in the future, how the law should apply for removal of Counsel for cause.

Espcially I believe it is important that Gull is recused from the case.

 

[mrjitty]

This is my understanding as well. The pictures deal with the protective order on discovery materials, not the gag order.

The Protective Order Governing Discovery that I saw (dated 2/17/2023) essentially states that no discovery material can be divulged to any unauthorized person without that person receiving a copy of the order and agreeing to bound by the court's contempt power.

AB did not divulge discovery materials to MW. As I understand from MW himself (his affidavit), he stole them.

jmo

BIB

I am not convinced of this. Notice in MW's affidavit, he specifically does not say in his affidavit that his access to the conference room was unauthorised, or that Baldwin was unaware he was in there. He only claims Baldwin was unaware he took photos.

IMO this drafting is intentional. i.e.he was authorised to access the materials, or Baldwin at least knew he was in that room.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It wasn't just crime scene photos that were leaked, there were also copies of depositions leaked.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

It wasn't just crime scene photos that were leaked, there were also copies of depositions leaked.

MOO

Exactly - MWs affidavit does not explain how he obtained the info about upcoming defence strategy that was leaked.

IMO the selective drafting is because AB voluntarily disclosed confidential case info to MW. They only say he stole the photographs when AB was not in the room.

I just can't stress enough to my mind, how outrageous AB's conduct appears to be. And given that, i do not accept just on his say so, that MW just decided to take the crazy risk of randomly leaking the discovery. If ABs confidence was really betrayed, as the defence suggested, why don't their pleadings outline that?

Another pair of evidence points give me pause. As raised on MS, when AB learns of this five fire alarm, he simply sends an email to Rozzi which isn't seen until the next day? er .... what the actual? And when they begin communicating with the judge, they seem to create the impression this is more like a betrayal over which they had no control, rather than actual circumstance?

In short, if an adhoc team member leaked protected discovery without my knowledge, i would be creating a detailed paper trail in the first five minutes outlining the exact circumstances if not only for insurance and disciplinary reasons - a so called letter to the judge

Instead the response appears to have been to conceal the nature of the breach.

 

[mrjitty]

I think Judge Gull is in huge trouble unless counsel pretty clearly withdrew in chambers then tried Takesies Backsies

I don’t see why if you are counsel being extorted by the judge you would withdraw. Their strong protests ought to be on the record.

I also don’t see why they felt the details of their misfeasance should not be discussed in court on the record.

Something is very amiss here but I certainly do not trust Gull and her refusal to release the transcript to counsel is super uncool

 

[zh0r4]

Odd they are keeping RA here to keep him safe. JMO.

Article from 14 hours ago.

ISP: Inmate died of ‘blunt force trauma’ at Westville prison; charges may be filed

WESTVILLE, Ind. — Indiana State Police are investigating after an inmate died inside a Westville prison. According to ISP, correctional officers discovered an unresponsive inmate around 8 a.m. Tues…

fox59.com

 

[iamshadow21]

Odd they are keeping RA here to keep him safe. JMO.

Article from 14 hours ago.

ISP: Inmate died of ‘blunt force trauma’ at Westville prison; charges may be filed

WESTVILLE, Ind. — Indiana State Police are investigating after an inmate died inside a Westville prison. According to ISP, correctional officers discovered an unresponsive inmate around 8 a.m. Tues…

fox59.com

Prisons aren't Disneyland.

RA is in seg. No idea where this unfortunate man was, but I suspect genpop.

MOO