IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[Batgirl 2.0]

Maybe not great!

Whether guilty or innocent, his life has been altered forever (imo).

 

[Boxer]

Considering the man has confessed multiple times and has said he was dressed the same as Bridge guy and can be placed on that bridge seconds before the girls appear the best place for him is Jail. His team obviously also know he wouldn’t get Bail which is why they haven’t attempted it because it’s laughable considering what he has been charged with.

IMO MOOO all that jazz!!

They should have attemped to getting bail. Maybe they are afraid to get the presumption great label attached to RA.

Also RA looks like someone trying to pretend they are crazy.
He can look a mess in still photos but videos convey an acting job.

Also there is no reason he couldn't be in a correctional mental facility right now being restored to understand the proceedings against him if the defense had a qualified psychogist recommend it to the court.

 

[mrjitty]

The Murder Sheer discussed the arrest of MW on a podcast yesterday. I found it an interesting listen given they had direct knowledge of the protected discovery and the privileged strategy shared.


The Delphi Murders: The Arrest of Mitchell Westerman

So they continue to allege MW also leaked trial strategy and other details which they screenshotted and also passsed to law enforcement. They relate that to Rozzis admission that Baldwin discussed the case with MW

If they are right I wonder if MW is just going to eat his charge and we’ll never learn the rest.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

So they continue to allege MW also leaked trial strategy and other details which they screenshotted and also passsed to law enforcement. They relate that to Rozzis admission that Baldwin discussed the case with MW

If they are right I wonder if MW is just going to eat his charge and we’ll never learn the rest.

I’m betting he does. It’s a misdemeanor. Unless they find some more nefarious dealings of his leak that could bring more charges.
His job is most likely in jeopardy if he takes the charges though. Something to consider.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

The Murder Sheer discussed the arrest of MW on a podcast yesterday. I found it an interesting listen given they had direct knowledge of the protected discovery and the privileged strategy shared.


The Delphi Murders: The Arrest of Mitchell Westerman

I’m curious as to why they said MRC was such a good guy in their episodes discussing the leaks when the PCA for MW says MRC sent it to “various creators of YouTube channels and podcasts”. Do they address that in the episode?

I’m also curious about the timeline because NM said in the 10/19 transcript that he has been investigating the leak nonstop for 17 days (so since 10/2). But the MW PCA says LE was made aware of the leak on 10/5 via MS.

Rozzi notifies NM and JG via email on 10/6 and in his letter he says they learned about the leak “the week of 10/2”. That isn’t very specific.

He also says MW confessed to Baldwin on 10/9.

Is there anything I’m missing to clarify how NM and possibly the D would have known about it on 10/2?

edit- clarified some dates

 

[Cyber sleuth]

MW’s position is in compliance. He probably was put on leave as soon as his affidavit was released.
IMO
The problem here is that we know per filed statements that MW was often included in discussions with AB in regards to this case and strategies. If he isn’t an associate then there is a conflict here. I believe this means privilege has been broken unless RA had specifically authorized it.
Then if the leak did include defense stated- it’s absolutely to the detriment of RA’s case right before trial.
I don’t believe RA was aware at the full scope of matter in the mean by his own filed statement. I am not convinced he realizes the potential damage his own team did to his case (even if done by negligence).

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I’m curious as to why they said MRC was such a good guy in their episodes discussing the leaks when the PCA for MW says MRC sent it to “various creators of YouTube channels and podcasts”. Do they address that in the episode?

I’m also curious about the timeline because NM said in the 10/19 transcript that he has been investigating the leak nonstop for 17 days (so since 10/2). But the MW PCA says LE was made aware of the leak on 10/5 via MS.

Brad notifies NM and JG via email on 10/6 so it sounds like he wasn’t aware before then.

Is there anything I’m missing to clarify how NM would have known about it on 10/2?

I’m curious as well - I have a feeling their feelings regarding MRC may have been changed since more information came out.
TMS initially did receive pictures of the F tree earlier in October but didn’t report because they had thought it could be a fake. Perhaps LE became aware at that time by another source and began investigating. I do believe it had been shown or discussed on several forums before 10/5. I’m sorry I don’t have links right now and I do think some may have since disappeared.
TMS initially stated that they informed Defense on 10/5 as so it was interesting to me that BR didn’t send an email to JG until right before end of business day on 10/6. Perhaps he assumed everyone had been informed.

 

[mrjitty]

I’m curious as well - I have a feeling their feelings regarding MRC may have been changed since more information came out.
TMS initially did receive pictures of the F tree earlier in October but didn’t report because they had thought it could be a fake. Perhaps LE became aware at that time by another source and began investigating. I do believe it had been shown or discussed on several forums before 10/5. I’m sorry I don’t have links right now and I do think some may have since disappeared.
TMS initially stated that they informed Defense on 10/5 as so it was interesting to me that BR didn’t send an email to JG until right before end of business day on 10/6. Perhaps he assumed everyone had been informed.

Perhaps at first the defence believed the leak had come from the prosecution?

 

[mrjitty]

MW’s position is in compliance. He probably was put on leave as soon as his affidavit was released.
IMO
The problem here is that we know per filed statements that MW was often included in discussions with AB in regards to this case and strategies. If he isn’t an associate then there is a conflict here. I believe this means privilege has been broken unless RA had specifically authorized it.
Then if the leak did include defense stated- it’s absolutely to the detriment of RA’s case right before trial.
I don’t believe RA was aware at the full scope of matter in the mean by his own filed statement. I am not convinced he realizes the potential damage his own team did to his case (even if done by negligence).

If this happened as MS say I don’t think it is a crime? So maybe only a disciplinary proceeding would get to the bottom of it.

What we know of MWs admissions seem quite tightly contained. I would not be surprised if he just pleads out and never explains it.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Perhaps at first the defence believed the leak had come from the prosecution?

Per their email they stated they had heard that a man in Texas was claiming to have received leak crime scene photos directly from defense.
So I think I would have checked my own side of street first. Especially if I had all the evidence and strategy lying about unsecured in my conference room.
But I’ve worked in compliance too long and far too neurotic so my standards may be high.

 

[mrjitty]

Per their email they stated they had heard that a man in Texas was claiming to have received leak crime scene photos directly from defense.
So I think I would have checked my own side of street first. Especially if I had all the evidence and strategy lying about unsecured in my conference room.
But I’ve worked in compliance too long and far too neurotic so my standards may be high.

I don’t feel we’ve heard the full story somehow

 

[Ward Thisperer]

TMS initially stated that they informed Defense on 10/5 as so it was interesting to me that BR didn’t send an email to JG until right before end of business day on 10/6. Perhaps he assumed everyone had been informed.

[sbm] Or perhaps was waiting for NM to raise it if MS alerted him it had been reported to LE also?

Per their email they stated they had heard that a man in Texas was claiming to have received leak crime scene photos directly from defense.
So I think I would have checked my own side of street first. Especially if I had all the evidence and strategy lying about unsecured in my conference room.
But I’ve worked in compliance too long and far too neurotic so my standards may be high.

I agree that I think the D would have taken time to talk to all staff and ensure that they didn’t do this. Imo MW probably didn’t even occur to them as someone who could have done it not knowing he had snuck into the conference room.
Tbh if they did learn about it on 10/5 from MS and didn’t send email until end of the day the next day I don’t see that as an improper delay, JMO as a layperson, it doesn’t seem like the court has specific guidelines for this situation like a 24 hour reporting standard. I could imagine they were trying to check with all their people and also likely had other commitments while working on that.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

[sbm] Or perhaps was waiting for NM to raise it if MS alerted him it had been reported to LE also?

I agree that I think the D would have taken time to talk to all staff and ensure that they didn’t do this. Imo MW probably didn’t even occur to them as someone who could have done it not knowing he had snuck into the conference room.
Tbh if they did learn about it on 10/5 from MS and didn’t send email until end of the day the next day I don’t see that as an improper delay, JMO as a layperson, it doesn’t seem like the court has specific guidelines for this situation like a 24 hour reporting standard. I could imagine they were trying to check with all their people and also likely had other commitments while working on that.

BBM

I agree with you in all points. I do not feel it was an improper delay but I don’t think I would consider it “immediately reported” as defense stated.
But again I can be a little persnickety.

 

[FrostedGlass]

We talked about this Oct 5/Oct 6 a couple of weeks ago.

On Oct 5, Murder Sheet said they called LE and then called the D to let them all know about the leak.
On Oct 6, The D learned about RS and contacted the others with that info.
A quote from our Nov 7 conversation:
RB and Reddened by me

Cyber sleuth said:
BBM.
I have issue with the time in between the first moment defense claims to became aware of the leak ( Texas guy) and 10/9 when MW dropped by the office to admit to his participation in the leak.
The defense disclosed to Judge and Prosecution a completely different scenario in the 10/6 email. They pointed to Rick Snay. No mention of guy in Texas that seems to be directly related to one of their former employees.
Why did they mislead in this email? (Exhibit I)
What were they doing between the time they were first aware and emailing the judge and prosecution?
Record of Proceedings.pdf

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Also in the email from BR he says that NM told him he’d been aware for only 24-30 hours too

 

[recordtime]

error on my part

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Exhibit K, p. 215, Record of Proceedings Vol. 1:

Ex-Parte Pleading by Brad Rozzi filed 10/12

“During the week of October 2, the Defense became aware of a gentleman in Texas (MC) who had claimed that crime scene photos had been leaked and that Andy was the party who leaked the photos. Naturally, this called for some immediate disclosure.

Andy and I discussed the matter and believed that it was important to communicate our concerns with the Prosecutor and Court, This disclosure was accomplished through the emails you received from us last week.”
Record of Proceedings Volume 1.pdf


BBM

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don’t feel we’ve heard the full story somehow

I misspoke here - defense did not state that they had heard of a man in Texas claiming that he had a leak from defense the week of October 2nd in an email. They stated this in an Ex-Parte Pleading. The email sent to JG on 10/6 pointed to Rick Snay.

 

[Jurisprudence]

I’m also curious about the timeline because NM said in the 10/19 transcript that he has been investigating the leak nonstop for 17 days (so since 10/2). But the MW PCA says LE was made aware of the leak on 10/5 via MS.

[sbm]

I caught that too. Someone on that side is going to pick up on that and it will be interesting to learn exactly what was going on.

On another note, to all who celebrated, I hope you and yours had a very Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[DeDee]

RSBMFF
As of us are privy to the full and complete investigative file it’s pointless to fool ourselves into believing it truly contains exculpatory evidence, just because the ex-D said so.

D's memo may not be fully exculpatory. I need proof of some claims contained therein. What the D Memo created, however, was the possibility of reasonable doubt RA kidnapped the children. The Odin angle should be adequately addressed in court, at trial. It's possible RA led the girls DTH and handed them off to others. IDK NMc seems to think others are involved (links throughout the threads). He cited such as the reason to Seal the docs. After 6 years, they're still investigating the murders. We'll give them a lifetime just to get it right.

Unless the new D are far more proficient than the old one and manage to get RA’s charges dropped, much of what‘s being speculated is a full year away from being proven or disproven. IMO it’s better not to know than to pretend to know and be wrong. JMO

The D's Memo shows how much work, organization and research they put into the discovery materials presented to them by the P. I've not considered RA's charges being dropped. Is that a real possibility?

RA puts himself at the MHB wearing a blue jacket and blue jeans. RL wore a blue jacket and blue jeans, too. So do the guys who work over at the IN Packing Plant -- all of that was discussed in 2017. RL's phone data places him at the CS that fateful afternoon.

the warrant indicated data from Logan’s cell phone showed it was in Delphi near the murder scene that afternoon and was likely outside and “in the proximity” of the scene.

ETA I don’t get how it can be insisted the Odin theory is exculpatory evidence given the current circumstances including the ex-D being off the case, not knowing even if the new D will go with it. There’s so much love for that theory maybe copyright should be filed on it!

B & R being removed, or not, doesn't automatically remove any Odin related material from the P's discovery. Another problem is that there isn't any DNA, fingerprints or phone data that connects RA to the two victims, att.

What the P does have, is a bullet matching RA's firearm but we don't know the chain of command on that item. Why didn't the killer rid himself of the weapon?

Attorneys outline why Delphi killer could not have acted alone

Robert Ives stated they obtained warrants for cell ph data but not an all encompassing warrant due to lack of probable cause. Is that law still in effect today? What's more probable than two innocent murdered victims? Who would have known this law would protect their phone?

the law does not allow for the bulk collection of cell phone data from a nearby cell tower, without probable cause that a particular phone was involved with the murders

Former prosecutor in unsolved Delphi murders of two teens speaks out

Neither RA nor RL resemble the 2nd Sketch released Apr '19 so who is that young guy?

If RA had any involvement at all, by all means, let nothing prevent his conviction.

JMHOO