IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

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According to the new filing, McLeland argues that the previously released investigative findings include cause that Allen kidnapped Abby and Libby by force prior to their murders near the Monon High Bridge.

Due to Allen committing the act, or attempting to commit the act of kidnapping, during the alleged murder, Allen can also be charged with two counts of felony murder — where murder is committed during the act of another crime.

McLeland stated these newly amended charges “more accurately aligns” with the charging information leveled against Allen in the high-profile murder case.

Prosecutor files additional murder, kidnapping charges against Delphi murders suspect

Updated: JAN 18, 2024 / 03:24 PM CST
bbm + enlarged by me.
Now it is "force", which RA applied. I remember it being "manipulation" or "deception" before. Interesting. So the gun was part of the kidnapping, I think (as we believed anyway).
 
As of this moment in the hearing, it is looking to me like SCOIN is leaning toward reinstatement of ex-D.

It is feeling contentious. The speaking attorney, Gutwein, keeps saying “again…”. Never good.

jmo
Gutwein kept mentioning Wheat-I’m guessing that is a case from the federal Supreme Court and not SCOIN? Chief Justice Rush said “I haven’t read Wheat.” Or something, IMO implying it’s not applicable. Was it not applicable due to a misconstrued application to this case or bc it wasn’t a SCOIN case?

I thought it was telling when she asked him to state another case except Wheat and he couldn’t. AJMO.
 
Could someone summarize what is happening in court today? I haven't been keeping up 100% and am confused by the tweets. Thank you!
From my understanding:

The Supreme Court of Indiana held a hearing re: a writ of mandamus filed by appellate lawyers Wieneke & Leeman on behalf of RA’s constitutional rights and due process of the court. They were asking for Judge Gull to be removed (due to obvious bias/lack of due process re: RA’s defense), the continuance to be reversed/commencement of a speedy trial, and reinstatement of Rozzi & Baldwin (RA’s defense of choice). Per the writ:

“STATEMENT OF PRECISE RELIEF SOUGHT

Relator respectfully requests that Permanent Writ of Mandamus be issued:
  1. Mandating that the trial court reinstate Attorneys Baldwin and Rozzi as Rick’s court-appointed counsel.
  2. Mandating that the trial court order Rick's trial to commence within 70 days from the issuance of the writ; and
  3. Mandating that the special judge be removed from Ricks case and a new special judge to be appointed. ”
PDF for the writ ruled on today linked below.

SCOIN ruled that Rozzi & Baldwin be reinstated but denied the other 2 requests. There was no specific time for their response so it is surprising they ruled on the same day. JMO.

Source:
VERIFIED PETITION FOR WRIT OF MANDAMUS
filed 11/6/2023 by Wieneke & Leeman
 
I think the if the old D gets reinstated there has to be a hearing on if they're gross negligence stands/stays on record right? So whole another circus with attorneys?
IMO there won’t be a hearing on gross negligence bc there is no gross negligence, as SCOIN also kept asking for evidence of gross negligence today. I’m confident that is why JG didn’t afford the defense due process/hearing re: their alleged gross negligence-it wouldn’t have held up, especially as grounds for their removal as RA’s chosen defense. AJMO.
 
They withdrew.
Had they not they would have had a hearing that day.

JMO
Rozzi never officially withdrew. Baldwin only “withdrew” under Hobson’s choice duress without due process or a hearing. Even re: Baldwin’s oral withdraw they would need a hearing (due process) and official record of withdrawal. Gull skipped all of that bc she wanted them off the case. JMO.
 
IMO there won’t be a hearing on gross negligence bc there is no gross negligence, as SCOIN also kept asking for evidence of gross negligence today. I’m confident that is why JG didn’t afford the defense due process/hearing re: their alleged gross negligence-it wouldn’t have held up, especially as grounds for their removal as RA’s chosen defense. AJMO.
Ok that's your opinion. We shall see what happens next. Nothing would surprise at this point. Maybe now with the new charges RA will bargain for his life and there will be no trial?
 
Rozzi never officially withdrew. Baldwin only “withdrew” under Hobson’s choice duress without due process or a hearing. Even re: Baldwin’s oral withdraw they would need a hearing (due process) and official record of withdrawal. Gull skipped all of that bc she wanted them off the case. JMO.
No BR did withdraw. He said so in that filing/protest letter. He said (paraphrasing) he lied to the judge in chambers.
 
I am quite thick so RA lawyers are reinstated even though it’s their office that leaked photos of the deceased girls?

If this is the case and I’m reading it correctly it’s insanity imo
Yep, that's where we're at right now.

If the no-longer-ex-D has any sense of self preservation, they should be heads-down-bums-up until trial, but, well. Past behaviour makes me doubt that's what the future holds.

MOO
 
It will be interesting to read the SCOIN opinion.

If they reinstated B&R on purely procedural grounds (Gull failed to hold a hearing and provide an adequate record for their disqualification), then I could see her moving forward with disqualification again. But if they get to the substance of the disqualification argument and say that you can't disqualify defense attorneys for the reasons she gave, then I imagine B&R are going to move for her recusal. And, IMO, in that situation she should recuse.
I'm not of the opinion that she will, or should, recuse herself. On what grounds?

I too am interested in reafing the opinion as I note that:

1) D's reinstated by majority opinion (not unanimous);
2) No order to head to trial within 70 days (unanimous); and
3) Judge Gull not removed in favour of another special judge (unanimous opinion).

Seems to me that SCOIN has backed her up so why recuse? I am most interested to see why some of the justices were not in favour of reinstating the D while others were - that seems to be the only area where they disagree.
 
I have a question - did anyone here see the leaked photos of the crime scene? What did they contain?
No, and this is a huge issue for me. Most leaks end up somewhere on the internet, I’ve seen nothing from these leaks. I prefer evidence for things, and so far I’ve seen no evidence of the leaks only regurgitation of these allegations over and over by prosecutor friendly, grifter podcasters. There was also Westerman who allegedly stole the pics (unbeknownst to Baldwin), then distributed them-it wasn’t Baldwin. There should be a chain of custody of all evidence, including evidence to substantiate “gross negligence” per the leaks. If I was a juror, I would ask “Where is the proof Westerman acquired these photos from Baldwin’s office?” Gull has already wiped Westerman records from the record, ironically and conveniently.

I assume numerous people have access to CS photos so I found it interesting it’s immediately blamed on the defense, soon after the release of the Frank’s memo.

AJMO.
 
No, and this is a huge issue for me. Most leaks end up somewhere on the internet, I’ve seen nothing from these leaks. I prefer evidence for things, and so far I’ve seen no evidence of the leaks only regurgitation of these allegations over and over by prosecutor friendly, grifter podcasters. There was also Westerman who allegedly stole the pics (unbeknownst to Baldwin), then distributed them-it wasn’t Baldwin. There should be a chain of custody of all evidence, including evidence to substantiate “gross negligence” per the leaks. If I was a juror, I would ask “Where is the proof Westerman acquired these photos from Baldwin’s office?” Gull has already wiped Westerman records from the record, ironically and conveniently.

I assume numerous people have access to CS photos so I found it interesting it’s immediately blamed on the defense, soon after the release of the Frank’s memo.

AJMO.
Given the guy who bragged about having taken the pictures of the evidence photos did so on his phone, I'm pretty sure the exif data would make proving it easy. And hasn't he been charged? There would have to be enough linking him directly to the pictures for the arrest warrant. Digital investigation by LE would make short work of the trail.

MOO
 
No, and this is a huge issue for me. Most leaks end up somewhere on the internet, I’ve seen nothing from these leaks. I prefer evidence for things, and so far I’ve seen no evidence of the leaks only regurgitation of these allegations over and over by prosecutor friendly, grifter podcasters. There was also Westerman who allegedly stole the pics (unbeknownst to Baldwin), then distributed them-it wasn’t Baldwin. There should be a chain of custody of all evidence, including evidence to substantiate “gross negligence” per the leaks. If I was a juror, I would ask “Where is the proof Westerman acquired these photos from Baldwin’s office?” Gull has already wiped Westerman records from the record, ironically and conveniently.

I assume numerous people have access to CS photos so I found it interesting it’s immediately blamed on the defense, soon after the release of the Frank’s memo.

AJMO.
Westerman signed an affidavit that he obtained the photos in question from Baldwin’s office. Are you implying he lied in his affidavit and got them from another source.
 
Don't know if someone already posted about it or if it got missed with all the SCOIN stuff, but Westerman was in court today.

 
I'm not of the opinion that she will, or should, recuse herself. On what grounds?

I too am interested in reafing the opinion as I note that:

1) D's reinstated by majority opinion (not unanimous);
2) No order to head to trial within 70 days (unanimous); and
3) Judge Gull not removed in favour of another special judge (unanimous opinion).

Seems to me that SCOIN has backed her up so why recuse? I am most interested to see why some of the justices were not in favour of reinstating the D while others were - that seems to be the only area where they disagree.
(A) A judge shall disqualify himself or herself in any proceeding in which the judge's impartiality* might reasonably be questioned, including but not limited to the following circumstances:
(1) The judge has a personal bias or prejudice concerning a party or a party's lawyer, or personal knowledge* of facts that are in dispute in the proceeding.

I think given her multiple on the record statements about their incompetence/gross negligence/dishonesty, her disagreements with their strategy in this case, and her attempt to disqualify them, it would be reasonable to question Judge Gull's impartiality in regards to Baldwin & Rozzi. She may be fully capable of divorcing her personal feelings about them from any rulings on the case, but there will certainly be a portion of the public who wonders about her motivations whenever she rules against them. IMO, given that, it would be wise for her to recuse herself if they continue on the case. But she's the one who would make the decision on that, at least initially.
 
Westerman signed an affidavit that he obtained the photos in question from Baldwin’s office. Are you implying he lied in his affidavit and got them from another source.
No. I would like to see who all received the photos (per the other ppl mentioned RF, MRC, the woman who sent the photos to RS, allegedly) in what order Westerman sent the photos to who, what order the photos were distributed, and the conversations when sending/exchanging these photos. I also want to know who else Westerman knew besides Baldwin, if anyone, connected to the case. I want to know if an alleged CS photo had a cursor from a mouse on it (suggesting the ss he took was from a computer screen) as RS claims, since the MW affidavit states the picture was of a physical photo. I also want to know why RS (the YouTuber) claims a woman sent him the photos. Who is this woman and who is she connected to?
 
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