Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #85

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Brubon said:
My guess is Derrick spoke with BG and is the source of the sketch detail...but LE doesn't want the world to know the source ......just my opinion.
I hope there will be an arrest of BG soon.
RIP sweet Abby and Libby.
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I think you're spot on here. It would seem the LE knows, based on witness information, what route BG exited that day. We all knows there's multiple ways to leave the area. Freedom Bridge, Cemetery etc. And it would seem that they don't want us to know even though it's pretty well established at this point. Plus it wouldn't change anything in the eyes of the public if that was released. In my mind anyways.

If true, and let's say DG is the best witness at this point, it would lend to them not wanting people to know which way BG exited that day. They wouldn't want to people necessarily knowing DG is a prime witness, they don't need people knowing exactly which way he exited. These are all items that will help build their case when they're getting that future admission.

Long story short, I agree.
 
gregjrichards said:
This is heartbreaking and so frustrating it would be awful to reach the second anniversary without any developments.
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We are all praying an arrest will be made, but I would rather that LE takes their time in building a slam-dunk case against the killer(s)- a case that will not allow defense attorneys any wiggle room to create reasonable doubt; a slam dunk case that will not allow a judge or appeals court the equivalent of technical fouls to be called at any point against the prosecutor or LE. If it takes another 6 months or a year, or a couple of years to build that slam dunk case , then I am willing to be more than patient about an arrest or arrests.
 
rainwaterstill said:
We are all praying an arrest will be made, but I would rather that LE takes their time in building a slam-dunk case against the killer(s)- a case that will not allow defense attorneys any wiggle room to create reasonable doubt; a slam dunk case that will not allow a judge or appeals court the equivalent of technical fouls to be called at any point against the prosecutor or LE. If it takes another 6 months or a year, or a couple of years to build that slam dunk case , then I am willing to be more than patient about an arrest or arrests.
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You'd rather they built a slam dunk case against whom?
I don't even think that they have a list of viable suspects let alone a prime suspect, so I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for an arrest. This case is ice cold.
 
insearchoflight said:
Absolutely insane that they have a photo and voice recording of the suspect and still no clue as to who he is? Wow how can this be?
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It could be that the right person hasn't seen the images or heard the audio. However, it may be that BG's name is one out of the hundreds or thousands that have been given to police but that the police don't have an efficient way to winnow their list down to something manageable. I can't even imagine how many hours of work it would take to unequivocally clear all of the men whose names LE has received.
-
Anyone without a criminal record probably goes straight to the back of the deck. If BG is on their list but doesn't have a criminal record, then he may never be looked at closely.
 
Ever since the girls were murdered I have often thought about the case of Charlie Keever and Jonathan Sellers..two little boys who were out playing together, enjoying a weekend day when they were horribly murdered by a pedophile. It took eight years for their killer to be caught..by DNA. This happened in San Diego very close to where I still live.

The ID Channel Series “Blood Runs Cold” will be visiting this case this evening in a show called “Bonded by Grief”. I have run across both of the boys mothers over the years and, of course, they have suffered, as have the rest of their families.

I don’t think there was anything on Websleuths about this case, but there is a Wiki page with several news articles. One of the things that I think about is that the killers DNA was taken when he was sentenced for the rape of an adult female, so he raped and killed children and adults.

I just see similarities with the girls and think of them and their families often. There is a traffic light on Palm Avenue in front of the Rally’s Where the boys were last seen and they are often in my thoughts when I am waiting at the light.

If you look at the Wiki entry, and feel up to it, read the UT article noted at the end. It talks about how the boys were found and that the police showed the crime scene pictures to the mothers before the trial because they wanted them to be aware of what they would see during the trial. These mothers are so strong and keep the boys memories in the forefront.
 
FromGermany said:
↑
I will try to find the link but if I remember correctly it was one of the girl’s mothers. I would think she would be aware of the type of DNA they have.
Tricia mentioned it in the first post on p1 of this thread:

"Carrie Timmons, Libby's bio mom, stated in a Facebook post that the police do have DNA.

"If this is true, then the perp is not in the DNA database. This means the only way we can catch him is for someone somewhere to recognize this man."

Not clear exactly what type of DNA they have.

Mo Thuairim, Sunday at 12:38 AMReport
#318
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DNA evidence also has been collected from the scene ISP First Sgt. Holeman, the investigative commander of the Lafayette District, said in August. “At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there”.

Indiana State Police officials have not confirmed yet whether they have DNA samples that are directly tied to a possible suspect or suspects.

Delphi murders: Here's what we know a year after the slayings of Abby and Libby
 
G.Keelie said:
Ever since the girls were murdered I have often thought about the case of Charlie Keever and Jonathan Sellers..two little boys who were out playing together, enjoying a weekend day when they were horribly murdered by a pedophile. It took eight years for their killer to be caught..by DNA. This happened in San Diego very close to where I still live.

The ID Channel Series “Blood Runs Cold” will be visiting this case this evening in a show called “Bonded by Grief”. I have run across both of the boys mothers over the years and, of course, they have suffered, as have the rest of their families.

I don’t think there was anything on Websleuths about this case, but there is a Wiki page with several news articles. One of the things that I think about is that the killers DNA was taken when he was sentenced for the rape of an adult female, so he raped and killed children and adults.

I just see similarities with the girls and think of them and their families often. There is a traffic light on Palm Avenue in front of the Rally’s Where the boys were last seen and they are often in my thoughts when I am waiting at the light.

If you look at the Wiki entry, and feel up to it, read the UT article noted at the end. It talks about how the boys were found and that the police showed the crime scene pictures to the mothers before the trial because they wanted them to be aware of what they would see during the trial. These mothers are so strong and keep the boys memories in the forefront.
Click to expand...

Ever since no one has been arrested for the murders of Abby and Libby and also Lizzy and Lyric, I have often wondered if the killer(s) could have change their MO to keep from being caught in these high profile cases.

Thanks for the heads up on the show tonight. It will be on at 9 on the east coast.
 
I'm wondering, if more girls at the age between 8 and 14 yo - at this time missing and/or abducted - will be found lifeless on a river bank like Abby/Libby and Lizzy/Lyric, this time in another state than Indiana/Iowa.
ETA: I'm "waiting" for a sketch from another state, which will show a similar face to BG on bridge or the Delphi perp, seen by witnesses.
 
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I have been reading these threads about Delphi since day one but very rarely post anything. But I would like y'all's opinion of a theory a friend posed to me a few months ago that was different from others I've heard. It's obvious hole is it makes assumptions of procedures at the local packing plant that may not be true so feel free to correct things if need be. Here's her thoughts...all speculation of course:
BG works at the packing plant. He has a job in which he gets bloody every day. He wears a white jumpsuit while working. Pictures of these jumpsuits were on their website. BG is wearing this under his bulky clothes in the picture on the bridge. BG drove to the trails earlier in the day and parked near the cemetery. In his car he had a plastic bag and a change of clothes. He walked down from the cemetery to the spot the girl's were killed and hid 2 gym bags containing knives, gun whatever he used on the girls, the other empty. He forced the girls off the bridge and "down the hill" to this spot and secured them. Removed his outer bulky clothes so he is only wearing the jumpsuit. Kills the girls. Grabs the gym bags one with weapons, one with outer clothes and heads to car. Removes jumpsuit and puts in gym bag with weapons. Puts fresh clothes on. Puts bulky bridge clothes in plastic trash bag and puts in trunk of car. Drives to work second shift at packing plant starting at 3:30pm(this is truly a guess as to the time of the shift). That is a short drive. BG walks into work with hundreds of others with a gym bag that presumably everybody else has too. He changes into a clean white jumpsuit for work. After his shift he removes the jumpsuit and stealthily gets the murder jumpsuit out of his gym bag and walks both bloody jumpsuits over to a bin or something where they are sterilized or destroyed...either way any evidence and/or DNA is destroyed. He also manages to mix in the bloody murder tools with bloody work tools to be cleaned and sterilized. My friend's point was...who is going to question bloody clothes and tools in a slaughterhouse? BG walks out of his shift and almost all evidence is gone. A few days later he drives a few hours away and either disposes of the bridge clothes in a dumpster or buries them deep in a remote area. Continues to work at the packing plant for a couple of weeks, then quits and leaves town.
What do you think? It assumes a lot I think just by necessity. But it also explains some things...where did he go afterward, how did he disappear so quickly, no one saw a guy with bloody clothes?, etc. It seems complicated but also kind of not complicated. My biggest problem is it flies in the face of the theory that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Interested in your thoughts. Be nice!
 
StarryStarryNight said:
I have been reading these threads about Delphi since day one but very rarely post anything. But I would like y'all's opinion of a theory a friend posed to me a few months ago that was different from others I've heard. It's obvious hole is it makes assumptions of procedures at the local packing plant that may not be true so feel free to correct things if need be. Here's her thoughts...all speculation of course:
BG works at the packing plant. He has a job in which he gets bloody every day. He wears a white jumpsuit while working. Pictures of these jumpsuits were on their website. BG is wearing this under his bulky clothes in the picture on the bridge. BG drove to the trails earlier in the day and parked near the cemetery. In his car he had a plastic bag and a change of clothes. He walked down from the cemetery to the spot the girl's were killed and hid 2 gym bags containing knives, gun whatever he used on the girls, the other empty. He forced the girls off the bridge and "down the hill" to this spot and secured them. Removed his outer bulky clothes so he is only wearing the jumpsuit. Kills the girls. Grabs the gym bags one with weapons, one with outer clothes and heads to car. Removes jumpsuit and puts in gym bag with weapons. Puts fresh clothes on. Puts bulky bridge clothes in plastic trash bag and puts in trunk of car. Drives to work second shift at packing plant starting at 3:30pm(this is truly a guess as to the time of the shift). That is a short drive. BG walks into work with hundreds of others with a gym bag that presumably everybody else has too. He changes into a clean white jumpsuit for work. After his shift he removes the jumpsuit and stealthily gets the murder jumpsuit out of his gym bag and walks both bloody jumpsuits over to a bin or something where they are sterilized or destroyed...either way any evidence and/or DNA is destroyed. He also manages to mix in the bloody murder tools with bloody work tools to be cleaned and sterilized. My friend's point was...who is going to question bloody clothes and tools in a slaughterhouse? BG walks out of his shift and almost all evidence is gone. A few days later he drives a few hours away and either disposes of the bridge clothes in a dumpster or buries them deep in a remote area. Continues to work at the packing plant for a couple of weeks, then quits and leaves town.
What do you think? It assumes a lot I think just by necessity. But it also explains some things...where did he go afterward, how did he disappear so quickly, no one saw a guy with bloody clothes?, etc. It seems complicated but also kind of not complicated. My biggest problem is it flies in the face of the theory that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Interested in your thoughts. Be nice!
Click to expand...
The theory sounds very plausible. Though IF Abby/Libby were brought to another place (assumption, because they were not found by the search crews until the next day) and returned back to RL's property deep in the night/early in the morning, then I would have a problem, ie. with perp's working shift and the disposal of clothing/weapons and so on. Maybe, there were two perps (at least), then one would have been able to drive to his shift at the meat packing plant, BUT he probably wouldn't have been the person with bloody clothing and weapons, because the murders occured at a later time .... My thoughts at the moment.
 
FromGermany said:
The theory sounds very plausible. Though IF Abby/Libby were brought to another place (assumption, because they were not found by the search crews until the next day) and returned back to RL's property deep in the night/early in the morning, then I would have a problem, ie. with perp's working shift and the disposal of clothing/weapons and so on. Maybe, there were two perps (at least), then one would have been able to drive to his shift at the meat packing plant, BUT he probably wouldn't have been the person with bloody clothing and weapons, because the murders occured at a later time .... My thoughts at the moment.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input! You are right that this scenario doesn't work with the "killed at a second location" theory.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
I have been reading these threads about Delphi since day one but very rarely post anything. But I would like y'all's opinion of a theory a friend posed to me a few months ago that was different from others I've heard. It's obvious hole is it makes assumptions of procedures at the local packing plant that may not be true so feel free to correct things if need be. Here's her thoughts...all speculation of course:
BG works at the packing plant. He has a job in which he gets bloody every day. He wears a white jumpsuit while working. Pictures of these jumpsuits were on their website. BG is wearing this under his bulky clothes in the picture on the bridge. BG drove to the trails earlier in the day and parked near the cemetery. In his car he had a plastic bag and a change of clothes. He walked down from the cemetery to the spot the girl's were killed and hid 2 gym bags containing knives, gun whatever he used on the girls, the other empty. He forced the girls off the bridge and "down the hill" to this spot and secured them. Removed his outer bulky clothes so he is only wearing the jumpsuit. Kills the girls. Grabs the gym bags one with weapons, one with outer clothes and heads to car. Removes jumpsuit and puts in gym bag with weapons. Puts fresh clothes on. Puts bulky bridge clothes in plastic trash bag and puts in trunk of car. Drives to work second shift at packing plant starting at 3:30pm(this is truly a guess as to the time of the shift). That is a short drive. BG walks into work with hundreds of others with a gym bag that presumably everybody else has too. He changes into a clean white jumpsuit for work. After his shift he removes the jumpsuit and stealthily gets the murder jumpsuit out of his gym bag and walks both bloody jumpsuits over to a bin or something where they are sterilized or destroyed...either way any evidence and/or DNA is destroyed. He also manages to mix in the bloody murder tools with bloody work tools to be cleaned and sterilized. My friend's point was...who is going to question bloody clothes and tools in a slaughterhouse? BG walks out of his shift and almost all evidence is gone. A few days later he drives a few hours away and either disposes of the bridge clothes in a dumpster or buries them deep in a remote area. Continues to work at the packing plant for a couple of weeks, then quits and leaves town.
What do you think? It assumes a lot I think just by necessity. But it also explains some things...where did he go afterward, how did he disappear so quickly, no one saw a guy with bloody clothes?, etc. It seems complicated but also kind of not complicated. My biggest problem is it flies in the face of the theory that the simplest answer is usually the correct one. Interested in your thoughts. Be nice!
Click to expand...
FromGermany said:
The theory sounds very plausible. Though IF Abby/Libby were brought to another place (assumption, because they were not found by the search crews until the next day) and returned back to RL's property deep in the night/early in the morning, then I would have a problem, ie. with perp's working shift and the disposal of clothing/weapons and so on. Maybe, there were two perps (at least), then one would have been able to drive to his shift at the meat packing plant, BUT he probably wouldn't have been the person with bloody clothing and weapons, because the murders occured at a later time .... My thoughts at the moment.
Click to expand...
Maybe several slaughter house workers have called in tips about who BG is based on the sketch and voice recording that was released. Maybe LE has his identity....but he has disappeared in the wind. There are an infinite number of places to live on this planet where you could simply "disappear."
Who would even know about this case in some far away hiding place?
Hopefully his location will be revealed soon by a lucky break. RIP sweet Abby and Libby.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
BG works at the packing plant. He has a job in which he gets bloody every day. He wears a white jumpsuit while working. Pictures of these jumpsuits were on their website. BG is wearing this under his bulky clothes in the picture on the bridge.
Click to expand...

An entire thread was devoted to images including BG’s appearance.

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

This is one of two original LE photos posted on that thread.

BG.JPG

Every single item of clothing was analysed to death. There were photography experts on the thread who used special techniques to try and establish conclusively what he looked like and what he was wearing underneath his jacket. He definitely isn't wearing anything white. It's a black top. Look underneath his chin and you'll see something that looks like a question mark. Many posters thought this was some sort of image imprinted on his top, some thought he was carrying rope, others thought it was white plastic handles of some sort of bag. The speculation was endless.

Unfortunately, LE enlarged the image and that distorted the pixels IIRC, so that when we tried to enhance it further, there was a lot of distortion.

The meat packing plant was also discussed a lot ... that perhaps he worked there and that's how he knew the area. Others thought he may have lived in the area as a young person. Unless you knew the bridge was there, you would be unaware of its existence. Everyone had a theory which we went over with a fine toothcomb.

Thank you for sharing your friend's theory but let me assure you, there's not one single thing that I can think of that hasn't been discussed including whether he had a car parked nearby and perhaps an accomplice who was waiting with the car. All possible exit points were canvassed too. The thing that is still driving everybody insane is LE, the FBI and everyone else believes BG is the killer but despite having a photo and audio, STILL no-one recognises him. The very fact that we have 85 threads shows how much input there has been but we're nowhere nearer working this out. :(
 
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