Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[Confusion]

oh! no snark intended!!! great post! After reading like a thousand books on these serial killers, I realized you will never get that good reason you are seeking, that they are ordinary and "unremarkable" and all of what you said. They can be shockingly dull and milque toast and still have a powerful fantasy life involving sexual violence

that said though, his plainness on the surface will not exclude him from suspicion, or make him unlikely.

obviously he has a secret life and knows to hide his stuff under the trailer.

to me he is 100% the perfect candidate for A&L suspect. Cheers! MOO

snipped by me

I don't think it's a favorite jacket missing. I think it's where he hides his kill outfit between excursions.

I know this is very unlikely, but I figured I might as well shoot for another one solved with him. According to the records of his work history posted earlier, he was also out of work in July 2012; could he have just started with young girls and worked his way up to adults as he gained confidence? There are missing women and girls all over the country, so there's also the possibility that he had killed one victim at a time in the past. I hope the clothes that were found did belong to the victims so there's more evidence, but I don't remember ever hearing anything about L&L's clothes other than shoes. I really don't believe he committed all 3 crimes, but it would be nice to have them all solved at once. MOO

 

[TTF14]

Who killed Abby and Libby?

ETA:

So many people resemble BG imo

Hoping for voice match..(DNA is another subject imo )


(Go) Down the hill

(Go)Down the hill


ABIGAIL WILLIAMS

LIBERTY GERMAN — FBI

ETA most chilling audio of a perp ever. Smart, strong girls. The world is looking for BG and we are not giving up. The day that BG is behind bars is going to be the biggest day on WS ever!
Only a matter of time moo.
@Foxfire
@los2188

Help us catch this b@$t@rd

IMO, there will be a DNA match before a voice match. I think his voice just sounds way too generic. Unless there's more audio released, I don't think this will be the key to cracking this case.

 

[heartgoesout]

I think the bag might be a big clue. My thought has been BG took the girls clothing in a missing bag because some of their clothing is missing......jmo

It's been awhile. Can you remind me do we know for certain some of the girls clothing's missing?

 

[MistyWaters]

IMO, there will be a DNA match before a voice match. I think his voice just sounds way too generic. Unless there's more audio released, I don't think this will be the key to cracking this case.

The voice blurb might’ve been helpful in LE seeking leads of potential suspects who also matched the general description and might’ve been in the Delphi area mid Feb.

I agree with you, if the crackly three words are the best sample of the perps voice, it in itself is by no means adequate evidence to base a prosecution.

This article attributes the “science of voices” to the CSI effect.
Voice Analysis Should Be Used with Caution in Court

 

[Inthedetails]

I think the bag might be a big clue. My thought has been BG took the girls clothing in a missing bag because some of their clothing is missing......jmo

That's what I'm thinking too. The bag thing was always strange - why did LE think BG had a bag?? What made them think that?

Well, perhaps they think he had a bag because the girls' clothing was missing. Maybe the perp had a bag to carry home his trophies and/or hide the evidence.

Maybe even their shoes were missing, which would lead LE to think the perp had a bag to carry them in, rather than simply stuffing the clothes under his jacket (which I personally think is another possibility, if he did take their clothes).

Now, in the STL case, it seems TB hid clothing and LE recovered it under his trailer. We don't know what clothing, but perhaps it was the victims' clothing (as well as his own, maybe)...and perhaps that is another connection STL LE saw between the STL case and Delphi.

If the victims in STL and in Delphi were left not only naked but without their clothing at the scene, that's a strong connection, imo. Of course, we don't know if that is the case or not. Speculation only.

But that bag was mentioned from the start of the Delphi case.....there was a reason for that.

jmopinion at the moment

 

[Inthedetails]

I know this is very unlikely, but I figured I might as well shoot for another one solved with him. According to the records of his work history posted earlier, he was also out of work in July 2012; could he have just started with young girls and worked his way up to adults as he gained confidence? There are missing women and girls all over the country, so there's also the possibility that he had killed one victim at a time in the past. I hope the clothes that were found did belong to the victims so there's more evidence, but I don't remember ever hearing anything about L&L's clothes other than shoes. I really don't believe he committed all 3 crimes, but it would be nice to have them all solved at once. MOO

Can you remind me about the shoes in L&L's case. (I'm assuming those are the girls in the Iowa case....I haven't been following that one except info that pops up on other cases referencing it.) Were their shoes missing?

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

It's been awhile. Can you remind me do we know for certain some of the girls clothing's missing?

We don't know for certain. Speculation, trying to see if missing clothes fits in the puzzle (I think it does, at this point....but speculation).

jmo

 

[kc1023]

Just wanted to post this since it is being discussed:

"We're trying to get people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland, that were on the interstate, that were in Logansport that might have saw somebody walking, hitchhiking-- if they saw a duffle bag laying somewhere, anything. We're just reaching out for people that saw anything within that distance," Riley said.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

MOO

Isn't there a rest area or something similar right there on the Hoosier Heartland with a walkway over the highway that goes towards the trail? Maybe he parked in there or they thought he may have? Someone may have seen him walking over the highway with a bag or so they hoped. I dunno but there's a quote of TB saying he likes long rides and walks or something so that would fit. He stops, finds the trail and... well. JMO

Would they have preserved security footage from that rest area place and be able to go back and check for his vehicle now?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

That's what I'm thinking too. The bag thing was always strange - why did LE think BG had a bag?? What made them think that?

Well, perhaps they think he had a bag because the girls' clothing was missing. Maybe the perp had a bag to carry home his trophies and/or hide the evidence.

Maybe even their shoes were missing, which would lead LE to think the perp had a bag to carry them in, rather than simply stuffing the clothes under his jacket (which I personally think is another possibility, if he did take their clothes).

Now, in the STL case, it seems TB hid clothing and LE recovered it under his trailer. We don't know what clothing, but perhaps it was the victims' clothing (as well as his own, maybe)...and perhaps that is another connection STL LE saw between the STL case and Delphi.

If the victims in STL and in Delphi were left not only naked but without their clothing at the scene, that's a strong connection, imo. Of course, we don't know if that is the case or not. Speculation only.

But that bag was mentioned from the start of the Delphi case.....there was a reason for that.

jmopinion at the moment

That's very interesting. I always thought LE mentioned the bag because they thought the killer was a transient and was "living" out of that bag or that they thought he had his weapons in there. Of course that was just my thinking since LE never said why they thought a bag was involved.
But you have made a good point that there could have been a real reason LE mentioned it. That kinda changes my thinking on it. Thanks for the insight! Something new to think about!

 

[Confusion]

Can you remind me about the shoes in L&L's case. (I'm assuming those are the girls in the Iowa case....I haven't been following that one except info that pops up on other cases referencing it.) Were their shoes missing?

jmo

It's been a while so my memory isn't the best. I believe that was one of the things used in identifying the remains; I think that one of the girls had been wearing pink shoes, but I'm not positive. I just remember that her parents recognized the shoes. @margarita25 can probably answer better than I can, she seems to know just about everything about the case and can remember a lot of it. MOO

 

[kkdj]

That's what I'm thinking too. The bag thing was always strange - why did LE think BG had a bag?? What made them think that?

Well, perhaps they think he had a bag because the girls' clothing was missing. Maybe the perp had a bag to carry home his trophies and/or hide the evidence.

Maybe even their shoes were missing, which would lead LE to think the perp had a bag to carry them in, rather than simply stuffing the clothes under his jacket (which I personally think is another possibility, if he did take their clothes).

Now, in the STL case, it seems TB hid clothing and LE recovered it under his trailer. We don't know what clothing, but perhaps it was the victims' clothing (as well as his own, maybe)...and perhaps that is another connection STL LE saw between the STL case and Delphi.

If the victims in STL and in Delphi were left not only naked but without their clothing at the scene, that's a strong connection, imo. Of course, we don't know if that is the case or not. Speculation only.

But that bag was mentioned from the start of the Delphi case.....there was a reason for that.

jmopinion at the moment

Yes yes yes. However, iirc correctly a shoe (or shoes) of one of the girls was spotted and that was near one or both of the girls.

 

[Inthedetails]

It's been a while so my memory isn't the best. I believe that was one of the things used in identifying the remains; I think that one of the girls had been wearing pink shoes, but I'm not positive. I just remember that her parents recognized the shoes. @margarita25 Can probably answer better than I can, she seems to know just about everything about the case and can remember a lot of it. MOO

FWIW, I don't think the Iowa girls' case is related. I don't know all the details about it but I don't think it's BG and/or TB.

I wish we knew the details about Abby and Libby's clothing. Anyone recall anything about it from MSM/LE?

jmo

 

[kc1023]

RE: Shoes

I think it was that a searcher found the bodies and Libby's sister was nearby (up on a ridge or something) and they yelled to her about what color were Libby's shoes? And that is when they knew they had found the girls. MOO

 

[kkdj]

It's been awhile. Can you remind me do we know for certain some of the girls clothing's missing?

No, just speculation at this point. A shoe (or shoes) was/were found and not on the body iirc.

 

[sumzero]

That's very interesting. I always thought LE mentioned the bag because they thought the killer was a transient and was "living" out of that bag or that they thought he had his weapons in there. Of course that was just my thinking since LE never said why they thought a bag was involved.
But you have made a good point that there could have been a real reason LE mentioned it. That kinda changes my thinking on it. Thanks for the insight! Something new to think about!

LE, in the process of broadening their search, asked people to report if they'd seen anything unusual between Delphi and Logansport. The "dufflebag" was used as an example. Not necessarily that LE had reason to believe a dufflebag was involved. The video stills certainly don't show BG with a dufflebag.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

 

[TheVisual]

I think the bag might be a big clue. My thought has been BG took the girls clothing in a missing bag because some of their clothing is missing......jmo

I've often wondered if when they crossed the creek that if the girls were running BG might have reached out and grabbed Abby's hood on her jacket and she wiggled out of it to escape( picture on bridge it was unzipped). Maybe that was one of the items found in the water by LE.

 

[Inthedetails]

RE: Shoes

I think it was that a searcher found the bodies and Libby's sister was nearby (up on a ridge or something) and they yelled to her about what color were Libby's shoes? And that is when they knew they had found the girls. MOO

Thank you. I have forgotten many of the early details. A collective memory here is valuable!

I wonder if the shoes were nearby or on Libby, and I wonder if one or both shoes were recovered. The question about what color were Libby's shoes makes me think the shoe was recovered before the body....otherwise you'd SEE the body and not worry about whether the shoe color matched.

And if the shoe was off the body, I'm thinking the bodies were disrobed, not just disheveled, ykwim. And that leads me to believe the Delphi victims were ordered to strip, like the STL victims were.

Yes, this is all speculation, not fact.

jmo at the moment

 

[Inthedetails]

LE, in the process of broadening their search, asked people to report if they'd seen anything unusual between Delphi and Logansport. The "dufflebag" was used as an example. Not necessarily that LE had reason to believe a dufflebag was involved. The video stills certainly don't show BG with a dufflebag.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

Could be, but I think LE picks words carefully. They could've said - have you seen anyone carrying a tackle box or thermos or fishing pole, etc. They specifically said duffel bag, and my opinion is they specified duffel bag because they suspect BG carried something away from the crime scene.

As you mention, we don't see a bag in the bridge photo of BG. So why would LE mention it? IMO, because something they expected to find at the scene wasn't there.

This is not a fact, it's speculation, and it may be off base. But...worth considering.

Just my opinion at the moment.

 

[kkdj]

Thank you. I have forgotten many of the early details. A collective memory here is valuable!

I wonder if the shoes were nearby or on Libby, and I wonder if one or both shoes were recovered. The question about what color were Libby's shoes makes me think the shoe was recovered before the body....otherwise you'd SEE the body and not worry about whether the shoe color matched.

And if the shoe was off the body, I'm thinking the bodies were disrobed, not just disheveled, ykwim. And that leads me to believe the Delphi victims were ordered to strip, like the STL victims were.

Yes, this is all speculation, not fact.

jmo at the moment

This is what I'm thinking too. Same outfit on perp, multiple victims, a gun, broad daylight, ordered to strip, murder, trophies taken by perp.
Of course some of this is just speculation.
I think we need to somehow find out if TB went to Delphi at the time of the girls murders. He did like to go on travels, was unemployed at that time, liked parks, restaurants, and has a military background. It appears his eyes are NOT blue and he did have reddish brown hair in pics where he shows he has hair and not bald. His height is in the realm too.
I would want to ask his wife if she knew where he was that fateful day or if he had taken a little trip. Maybe she doesn't even know. I would like to know if he changed his appearance around that time ie shaving his head. We do know they moved into the mobile home park approx 1 year ago per the neighbors. Do we know where they moved from? (sorry if I missed it)

 

[Lore Listener]

LE, in the process of broadening their search, asked people to report if they'd seen anything unusual between Delphi and Logansport. The "dufflebag" was used as an example. Not necessarily that LE had reason to believe a dufflebag was involved. The video stills certainly don't show BG with a dufflebag.

Tips pour in after suspect identified in Delphi double homicide

Do you have a link or is that speculation? Does anyone know an article where LE clarified that this was their motivation in asking about the duffle bag? I'm thinking of Jessica Ridgeway when I ask that. We didn't know LE's motivation in telling us not to focus on the clothing part of her description. Later, we heard that they found her backpack, but we didn't know what was in it. And only even later were we made aware that the motivation for telling the public not to focus on the clothing was because the clothing was found in the backpack. But Sigg was apprehended very quickly compared at A&L's case, and suddenly we had so many answers. IMO, LE in Delphi is holding a great deal of info close to the vest.

ETA: This is just one example of a seemingly random ask by LE where they actually had a very specific reason for using certain words to trigger the public's memory or awareness. I'm sure there are many others.