Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[Boxer]

DBM

 

[margarita25]

Just a guess, I have no inside knowledge or formal training. . . I would think that thermal imaging would be much more effective in more isolated areas, where a thermal hit would indicate either an animal or the person/s you are attempting to find. In this case, there must have been many people searching in and around the area. It would make it difficult, IMO, to pinpoint the two girls in such a situation. MOO

They could stand out amongst the searchers, especially if they were stationary, together, or away from the people searching.

Of course there is no point to go back and blame anyone and this response to your comment is not for that purpose, but simply to respond to the aspect of thermal detection itself.

I recently learned that thermal detection can even find people who have been deceased for a while due to the decomposition organisms and insects themselves giving off heat. I never knew that. (Iirc that was an article linked by @musicaljoke in another thread.)

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe I'm a little off track, but I'm interested in the couple that FSG saw under the bridge. Have they ever been identified or described? Did anyone else see them? Maybe the motive for the murder is something we haven't contemplated before that involved more than one person. Just kicking around some stones to look at the case a bit differently. Would appreciate if anyone remembers a fuller discussion about them.

Could the couple have been Abby and Libby? I know that CE saw a couple also. IMO they were the same couple FSG saw and LE must know who they are because they said when the BG pic came out, he was the only person who had not come forward IIRC.

 

[margarita25]

rsbm
Just your average Joe at best.

Which could also be contributing to what’s making detection extra challenging...

 

[x_files]

He’s dumb, remember? I just conceded today. Heehee
( @MassGuy )

maybe but maybe not.

 

[x_files]

X-files, very good question.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it turns out that BG had "Mother issues".

I am willing to bet he has addiction issues.

It would not surprise me either.......

if we eventually found out that BG had perpetuated some form of "domestic battery" in the past.

It seems Mother issues surrounding childhood abuse/trauma and shame around sexuality seems to be a theme in some serial killers.
Power/Control. Feels powerless in real life wants to be feared be manly and powerful, but is really a coward.

 

[x_files]

Wow, 2:30: “the only time I ever did anything was when she and I were fighting like cats and dogs.”

(This is one heck of a video...wow)
ETA: Edmund Kemper - Wikipedia

Mom was his trigger.

 

[tresir2012]

We don’t know that. Only LE knows the time of death

LE have stated they were murdered within minutes of BG being in the video on the bridge so that has been taken to mean 59 minutes max - i.e. less than an hour, so presumably before 3.30 p.m.

Cannot see what else LE would mean by "within minutes" otherwise. They must also have approx TOD from the coroner to help confirm that too. LE could be purposely vague but that means BG hung around till 5 p.m. if he is connected with the vehicle at the Welfare building, mentioned by LE. Did he clean up and change clothes in that building, I also wonder?

 

[MassGuy]

LE have stated they were murdered within minutes of BG being in the video on the bridge so that has been taken to mean 59 minutes max - i.e. less than an hour, so presumably before 3.30 p.m.

Cannot see what else LE would mean by "within minutes" otherwise. They must also have approx TOD from the coroner to help confirm that too. LE could be purposely vague but that means BG hung around till 5 p.m. if he is connected with the vehicle at the Welfare building, mentioned by LE. Did he clean up and change clothes in that building, I also wonder?

The vehicle wasn’t necessarily there until 5; it was gone by that point.

Those were time ranges, and not specific.

I think he killed the girls, walked back to his vehicle, and got the hell out of there.

 

[rosesfromangels]

LE have stated they were murdered within minutes of BG being in the video on the bridge so that has been taken to mean 59 minutes max - i.e. less than an hour, so presumably before 3.30 p.m.

Cannot see what else LE would mean by "within minutes" otherwise. They must also have approx TOD from the coroner to help confirm that too. LE could be purposely vague but that means BG hung around till 5 p.m. if he is connected with the vehicle at the Welfare building, mentioned by LE. Did he clean up and change clothes in that building, I also wonder?

Yes - a couple others have reinforced LE's statement on timing, thank you. How close is the building to the mentioned car? I'm speculating you are right; he might have cleaned up in the building, and I'm wondering if bleach was detected. I'm speculating he had his clean up stuff in the building already, or handy in the car perhaps.

All amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Boxer]

I am somewhat confused regarding the “gun” in his pocket or pockets. The still photos I see look like there is a long barrel gun in this right front jean pocket or something that gives the illusion of a barrel but then the next picture shown side by side I see that same form on his left pant leg. I can also see what might be his right hand on a gun handle but I don’t see that as pointing up. Not sure what you all see that I don’t and maybe it’s just the distorted pixels that I see

MOO MOO he had a handgun his right jacket pocket, and is also concealing a second handgun under his jacket in his left
hand ready to pull it out as soon as he gets close enough.
MOO I think the reason his right leg is crossing over is because he is in the first step of initiating a sprint to cut off the angle between Abby and her possible escape.
MOO I believe Abby is trying to get to where Libby is, on the east side of the southern end of the bridge.

MOO personally I don't think he has any firearms in his pants, maybe a sheathed blade of some type.

 

[MassGuy]

MOO MOO he had a handgun his right jacket pocket, and is also concealing a second handgun under his jacket in his left
hand ready to pull it out as soon as he gets close enough.
MOO the reason his right leg is crossing over is because he is in the first step of initiating a sprint to cut off the angle between Abby and her possible escape. I believe she is trying to get to where l Libby is, on the east side of the southern end of the bridge.

We don’t even know for sure that he had a gun, although I believe he did.

Two though? That would be completely unnecessary and highly unusual.

 

[margarita25]

maybe but maybe not.

(I know, that’s what I think too lol. I was just kidding bc @MassGuy and I have been going back and forth on that haha)

ETA: we’ve compromised though that maybe he’s in the middle

 

[tresir2012]

Apologies, I did not see that formal statement on death timing from LE.
If you have it at your fingertips, can you please post. That timing says a lot, as you have already deduced.
Thank you.

I saw it yesterday in the LE poster that Misty Waters posted. I hadn't seen it before then either. Sorry I know you weren't asking me but I had similar thoughts yesterday till I read the flyer. It's a bit of a game changer really IMO.

 

[ab01]

Yes - a couple others have reinforced LE's statement on timing, thank you. How close is the building to the mentioned car? I'm speculating you are right; he might have cleaned up in the building, and I'm wondering if bleach was detected. I'm speculating he had his clean up stuff in the building already, or handy in the car perhaps.

All amateur opinion and speculation

I would assume the government building while abandoned would still be locked up securely.

Too much liability not to be

Jmo

 

[enelram]

Off hand, does anyone know how far it is from welfare bldg. parking lot to the cemetery? In feet?
I'm wondering if cemetery is close enough to have been used as
alibi for why car was parked there?

 

[ilovechili]

Is it possible she meant it this way? Did you see anyone? Yes, I saw a guy and then another, a couple too. Meaning she was talking in instances? In the first instance she saw a guy then in another instance she saw a couple?

Could be, I have no idea. It just is not clear I guess. I guess we tend to analyze the little we do have. It does seem oddly worded unless she was part of a couple too is the way it comes across to me. I also though can see it the way you put it.

 

[enelram]

I would assume the government building while abandoned would still be locked up securely.

Too much liability not to be

Jmo

Agree and I'll bet there were NO PARKING signs around the lot.
I'll go ahead and share my theory on how LE knows what car was
parked there during time of murders.
A local patrol cop drove by and noticed the car parking in the "No
Parking" lot, took down license plate and description of car, in case he wanted to issue a citation later, or speak to local Joe about his careless parking. Wasn't a pressing issue so he just
called it in to dispatch to have them follow up as they have time.
Cop first sees car at 12noon, comes back around 5 and car is gone.
That's why they used the time frame 12-5pm that they knew the car was there.
all moo.

 

[Jazzy5980]

MOO MOO he had a handgun his right jacket pocket, and is also concealing a second handgun under his jacket in his left
hand ready to pull it out as soon as he gets close enough.
MOO I think the reason his right leg is crossing over is because he is in the first step of initiating a sprint to cut off the angle between Abby and her possible escape.
MOO I believe Abby is trying to get to where Libby is, on the east side of the southern end of the bridge.

MOO personally I don't think he has any firearms in his pants, maybe a sheathed blade of some type.

Boxer, you have good ideas. However, I get lost with all the MOOS and MOO MOOs. One idea might be to include one MOO at the end of comments as opposed to MOOing following every sentence

 

[neesaki]

Haven't been on in a while, just nerding about doing my finals and came across this old interview. Ed Kemper's personality is how I imagine the perpetrator in this case may be, random but calculated; confused and disconnected.

I’d forgotten how scary he is :shivers: IIRC his mother was very cruel and abusive.