Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[Cutiekitty]

Thanks for the suggestion! This was mentioned early on, you're right. But I think it's since been discussed that the phone's signal was simply bouncing off towers and never left the crime scene. JMO

This is something that I’m still keeping in consideration.

Could it be that the phone was jumping towers? Yes. Signal strength and tower load play into this.

Could it be that the phone was “pinging” around town? Also yes.

No one here knows for sure because no one has seen the records. I’m guessing the records they got were historical from 1:30 to whenever LE asked for them on that day.

I was trying to see how close the cemetery was to the crime scene and happened to capture the location of one of the towers that services the area. Not an aha type of thing, but someone might be interested. I did find the distance from the scene to the cemetery interesting. A typical track is 400 meters. The distance from the back of the cemetery to the scene is less than 1/2 the length of a track.

 

[Cutiekitty]

That is true. The south approach is a bit tricky for a complete stranger though.
MOO someone from outside of expected groups spending time in the park should
leave some what noticable.
An ex-teen i.e. young adult, is my suspicion, one that liked that area. Homeschooled, or attended one of the local high schools.


MOO the problem ia I see no way for LE to be able to get the tower pinging data from towers on 2/13/2017. It takes a court order and tome as dar as I know.
A gps tracking app might be likely - but I don't think they that either otherwise they would have known the last of the phone and gone straight there.
Possibly a friend worked at the cell phone company and was able to get that data without red tape.

It shouldn’t have been difficult especially since it was a missing child case at the point MP said it was requested.

 

[TL4S]

Noop! I don't believe for a nano-second that he has "no close living relatives", or is a recluse, etc. What he does have? Immediate family that are frightened.out.of.their.minds. So frightened, in fact, that even though they know that telling LE about their relative is "the right thing to do", they are afraid of, oh -- soo many things: afraid of him (What'll he do when he finds out that we were the ones who turned him in?), afraid of their futures (We'll have to move! Everyone who's known us for years will shun us, or never again want to do business with us, etc., etc., re: their employment/employers, etc.), and just...filled with fears (after all, who can even begin to imagine what it would be like to be, say, immediate family members living in the same town, highly respected, seeing the suspect perhaps weekends, or once a week, etc., wondering if he might turn his angry impulses on them, murdering them?

n. b. While I have nothing other than MOO on this, I'm thinking that the suspect did not directly tell his family; rather, I think that he "ambiguously" told someone (i. e., told someone indirectly, without actually telling the "what" of his crime) who does know his family/at least one of his parents very well (and imagine how awful it would be, to have to have the burden of that knowledge). How thankful I was last evening to see & hear Supt. DC on a video link that a WS-er provided from a very recent interview that someone (the Armchair Detective? not sure) had with DC. During the course of that brief interview, DC very clearly stated that LE will protect [the informant]. Hearing *that* was a great "bright spot" in this case, I thought. (They've probably said it privately, LE to each other, but...have never been so clear about that as DC was on the short video I saw/heard last evening.) Sorry I'm not good at locating things yet here on WS, or I'd post it for everyone to watch...

That "offer of protection" -- by LE -- very well *may* be a game-changer in this case. Praying that the suspect's family and confidante(s) will DO the right thing, and SOON.

That LE stated they would protect [the informant] could mean many different things. Protect them from harm, from harassment, from slander...the list goes on. If this person is local, and they've long known who BG is, the town folk would likely frown upon that. Especially the more time passes. I think you're right about those things. Business dealings and reputations might be at stake. BG's family and friends (if he has any) could become targets by proxy. So yes, I think they are afraid, even if not for life and limb. Although, that, too. Threats have been made on people unfortunate enough just to resemble the sketch!

 

[sunshineray]

This is a pretty standard profile, one based on the actions and behavior of many others who have committed crimes like this.

It wouldn’t require any specific knowledge of him actually doing this.

This is something you could say with confidence, as you’d be right most of the time.

I've read that about serial killers, that they like to brag about themselves. I don't know if Libby and Abby's killer is a serial killer. As we've talked before about it being hard to find a similar case of double murder, I don't know how to try and categorize this killer except by the language used by ISP in speaking directly to him. They talked about him as an intelligent, controlling and fits into a normal part of the community person, not a loner type. AJMO

 

[MassGuy]

I've read that about serial killers, that they like to brag about themselves. I don't know if Libby and Abby's killer is a serial killer. As we've talked before about it being hard to find a similar case of double murder, I don't know how to try and categorize this killer except by the language used by ISP in speaking directly to him. They talked about him as an intelligent, controlling and fits into a normal part of the community person, not a loner type. AJMO

This type of thing isn’t unique to serial killers.

Murderers frequently exhibit behavioral changes and allude to crimes they have committed.

Not all of them do this, but enough that you can reasonably expect it.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I've read that about serial killers, that they like to brag about themselves. I don't know if Libby and Abby's killer is a serial killer. As we've talked before about it being hard to find a similar case of double murder, I don't know how to try and categorize this killer except by the language used by ISP in speaking directly to him. They talked about him as an intelligent, controlling and fits into a normal part of the community person, not a loner type. AJMO

Men in general brag about themselves.
(Ducking!)

 

[tresir2012]

Does anyone know what you cannot reply to someone from thread 104? I wanted to try to inquire with another member about something, but cannot quote them. Any Ideas why this is?

If you click on the post number bottom right you can copy the link into your reply in this thread. Or you may be able to just copy and paste the text into your reply and tag them like this @NameUser and they should get an alert.

 

[sunshineray]

I feel the same. If he was from Delphi, moved away, came back or visits, why would you want to murder someone in your own backyard where you could easily be identified? I go back and forth with this but my gut tells me he left the area immediately to go back “home” without anyone realizing he was gone.

If it was your old own backyard the advantage would be familiarity and getting away. If it is someone with roots/family ties in Delphi that lives elsewhere, the LE and previous prosecutor seem to feel they've most likely talked to them. I just found an article with the old prosecutor saying as much two years ago. Also quite disheartening what he says here:

"Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts.

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here."

Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

 

[sumzero]

This is a pretty standard profile, one based on the actions and behavior of many others who have committed crimes like this.

It wouldn’t require any specific knowledge of him actually doing this.

This is something you could say with confidence, as you’d be right most of the time.

I believe you're right. I think LE has made some statements that, based on a standard profile and c0mmon sense reasoning, have a good chance of being true. If, in fact, they're right on one or two counts, it may cause BG to get nervous. He may then change his behavior enough that someone will notice and get suspicious. Then again, BG may not fit the percentages. Who knows?

 

[Boxer]

Also, adding that if it was sexually motivated it feeds into my fears that he has done this before and will do it again, if he hasn't already. Unless he has been locked up on other charges.

MOO if they have the killers DNA from the CS scene, then an unrelated conviction leading to the killer being locked up would have meant the DNA was already added to CODIS. Unless a very new offense.

I am sure they police are zealously watching for a any new offense DNA profiles being entered into CODIS.
Unfortunately, I think being caught for a new crime is how they will ultimately catch BG. A family tree DNA match would be so much better.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe nobody recognizes BG. Maybe nobody is hesitant to go to LE about what they know. Maybe BG's connection to Delphi is less substantial than LE thinks. Who knows?

^^ This.
Maybe someone recognized BG, but will forever stay hesitant to go to LE because of certain reasons. These reasons may have nothing to do with family relationships. MOO

 

[neesaki]

If it was your old own backyard the advantage would be familiarity and getting away. If it is someone with roots/family ties in Delphi that lives elsewhere, the LE and previous prosecutor seem to feel they've most likely talked to them. I just found an article with the old prosecutor saying as much two years ago. Also quite disheartening what he says here:

"Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts.

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here."

Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

This sounds like he’s saying he believed they had enough evidence to prosecute two years ago, that he expected it to have been solved in a month? Am I misinterpreting this ?

 

[sunshineray]

MOO if they have the killers DNA from the CS scene, them an unrelated conviction leading to the killer being locked up would have meant the DNA was already added to CODIS. Unless a very new offense.

I am sure they police are zealously watching for a any new offense DNA profiles being entered into CODIS.
Unfortunately, I think being caught for a new crime is how they will ultimately catch BG. A family tree DNA match would be so much better.

In Indiana do they only collect for felony arrests?

 

[Boxer]

If it was your old own backyard the advantage would be familiarity and getting away. If it is someone with roots/family ties in Delphi that lives elsewhere, the LE and previous prosecutor seem to feel they've most likely talked to them. I just found an article with the old prosecutor saying as much two years ago. Also quite disheartening what he says here:

"Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts.

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here."

Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

Wow.
Well, good he is back in the office as a deputy DA.

 

[Boxer]

In Indiana do they only collect for felony arrests?

Indiana used only collect for felony convictions. Not sure how far back for even that. 2018 is the first year they have collected DNA for felony arrests.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I am sure he already set himself to review his recollection of all the voices of older male speeders, DWIs, witnesses, victims and criminals that he ever came into contact with.

Maybe, he should try to remember of official guests in his office or phone calls with someone out of that category? MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Indiana used only collect for felony convictions. Not sure how far back for even that. 2018 is the first year they have collected DNA for felony arrests.

Some states swab for certain misdemeanor crimes (not having much luck finding the specifics about what ones) as well. I was wondering if Indiana was doing that also.
Edit: I just found a pdf file that lists those states and Indiana is only felonies at this time.

 

[sunshineray]

This sounds like he’s saying he believed they had enough evidence to prosecute two years ago, that he expected it to have been solved in a month? Am I misinterpreting this ?

That's what I get from it also which is disheartening to say the least.

 

[Krwiley60]

This sounds like he’s saying he believed they had enough evidence to prosecute two years ago, that he expected it to have been solved in a month? Am I misinterpreting this ?

This sounds like he’s saying he believed they had enough evidence to prosecute two years ago, that he expected it to have been solved in a month? Am I misinterpreting this ?

It sounds like the same old, same old to me.

 

[sunshineray]

^^ This.
Maybe someone recognized BG, but will forever stay hesitant to go to LE because of certain reasons. These reasons may have nothing to do with family relationships. MOO

I remember in the Rhoden investigation LE actually came out and basically said to the law breaking public, we're not looking for you we want the killers. Who would fall for that if they were guilty of other crimes?

 

[TTF14]

It sounds like the same old, same old to me.

that's because it is . It was from 2017.