Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[Deleted member 102539]

Notice *A reward is being announced tomorrow in Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook’s murder case by Crime-stoppers.

IA - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #38

The increase in the reward is possible due to a private donation from an anonymous source.
I would like to know, who it may be .......

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Questions about the Purdue classes:

How many students were in each class? 10? 25? 50 or more?
In addition to the class Libby took, what other classes and on what topics were offered?
Who were the instructors? Purdue professors? Graduate students? Upperclassmen at Purdue ? Outside people who had a background in that particular topic?
Were the classes sanctioned by Purdue or was Purdue simply providing the classrooms/facilities?
Could any middle or high school student sign up, or were there specific requirements to take classes? ( ie GPA, student in the gifted and talented program at their high school, college-bound students, etc.)
Were the classes just for fun or did middle and high school students earn credits towards high school graduation by taking them? Did high school student earn any college credit for taking a class?
Were middle and high school students combined in the same class, or were there specific age divisions? The same class being offered, but one group was middle school students only and a different classroom had the high school students only, each with different instructors?

I would add the question, if there were events (amusement) around this time of Super Saturdays to make the Uni even more attractive.

 

[Pedrosmom]

As I know it, police keep track of all volunteer searchers in the event their DNA is discovered at or near a crime scene. I would have hoped that after not finding them the night before, the notion that they were met with foul play would have been high on anyone’s list. A roster of search volunteers, even after they were discovered, should have been collected. It’s possible he helped in the search. I always thought he did. MOO

 

[Rosegold68]

I know we've gone over the "guys" and "down the hill" thing ad nauseum, but I am currently reading John Douglas' book "The Killer Across the Table". He tells the story of Joseph McGowan and the murder of 7 year old Joan D'Alessandro.

John Douglas interviewed Joseph McGowan in prison after he had been in prison for quite some time. He had been found guilty for Joan's murder.

John Douglas asked him how he managed to convince Joan to come into the house and he responded "He was a teacher and was used to having authority over kids. He knew how to use his voice to convey authority and how to talk to children". He was essentially "schooled in it".

Not that we haven't had posters come up with this type of scenario here, but hearing it come out of the mouth of a cold blooded killer gave me goosebumps. I actually let out a gasp as I was reading his words.

I have to really think about the possibility that BG knew how to deal with kids. That somehow his job, hobbies, volunteerism, etc., kept him in contact with kids in an authoritative manner.

MOO

Yes I agree.....I did ask way back if there’s a juvenile correction dept nearby. After watching girls incarcerated it got me thinking

 

[Pedrosmom]

Or handcuff one of each girls' wrists together. Makes it a lot more convenient to control as one. Easy to remove before leaving and they'd be found side by side. Just random thoughts...

I think Libby and Abby were protecting each other. Handcuffing or tying up one may have been easy enough for him or making one girl put the handcuffs on the other while he’s holding a weapon would have been fairly easy. We have no idea what was going through their minds. What always bothered me was why the girls didn’t run when they first saw this guy. Perhaps they didn’t fear him? Why let him get so close? I think one fought like heck for the other. They were a bond in life and in death. MOO

 

[Justice101]

My husband works state SAR and while what you are saying is technically correct, the search on the 13th was slightly different from the one on the 14th. The 14th was more organized, more "official." People signed in.

I have no desire to be a verified insider on this case because I don't personally know anyone involved. I do know a bit about the night of the 13th, though. There may have been a sign in sheet and they may have gone over the rules, but at some point it really was just a "turn up and start looking". I have family who participated. Some searched while others stayed near the cars, making calls and putting out the word. Some were there until almost daylight. They have described it as "dark, confusing, and frigid."

That'ss the extent of my knowledge, though.

I appreciate this information. Yes, you know.. at that point they just thought the girls were lost or hurt and many thought they had just left and not told parents where they were going. So I can see how it was sort of make shift.. which is fine. I would have come out if I didn't live 900 miles away!

Thanks for your post@!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I appreciate this information. Yes, you know.. at that point they just thought the girls were lost or hurt and many thought they had just left and not told parents where they were going. So I can see how it was sort of make shift.. which is fine. I would have come out if I didn't live 900 miles away!

Thanks for your post@!

Exactly; no one could have predicted this horrific crime. No doubt they thought they were looking for errant teens.

Amateur speculation and opinion

 

[Thelastleg]

As I know it, police keep track of all volunteer searchers in the event their DNA is discovered at or near a crime scene. I would have hoped that after not finding them the night before, the notion that they were met with foul play would have been high on anyone’s list. A roster of search volunteers, even after they were discovered, should have been collected. It’s possible he helped in the search. I always thought he did. MOO

If people came to search after LE had called the search off for the night would they have been verified as official searchers. Just thinking that it would be one way of explaining how your DNA was at the scene. I too believe that he was involved closely with the events.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I would add the question, if there were events (amusement) around this time of Super Saturdays to make the Uni even more attractive.

To make the university itself or the program more attractive? Super Saturday has been around for over 20 years that I know of.

There's always a lot going on in that area.

 

[MJPeony]

Notice *A reward is being announced tomorrow in Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook’s murder case by Crime-stoppers.

IA - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #38

I’m curious as to how many previous murder cases have been solved (at least in part) due to high monetary rewards being offered, I’ve always thought it would be a very small number, but I’m interested in what fellow WSers have recollection of.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

To make the university itself or the program more attractive? Super Saturday has been around for over 20 years that I know of.

There's always a lot going on in that area.

I'm thinking of people, which participated in the events, as invited guests or entertainers. So, I think less of the students, who led the courses.

 

[gregjrichards]

I’m curious as to how many previous murder cases have been solved (at least in part) due to high monetary rewards being offered, I’ve always thought it would be a very small number, but I’m interested in what fellow WSers have recollection of.

I’m sorry to say rewards even high ones tend to be mostly ineffective but I’m glad they are trying something it should have been done years ago though.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Notice *A reward is being announced tomorrow in Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook’s murder case by Crime-stoppers.

IA - IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #38

DBM
I see the answer is posted right above me!

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Per LE they found her phone near the bodies. moo

ETA:

ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

bbm

If its "per LE" how is it "moo" ? I'm confused.

 

[sunshineray]

From being in the woods hunting early in the morning or in the evenings playing capture the flag in boy scouts when everything is still it is amazing from how far away you can hear someone talking. But bring up the wind with the noise it makes through the trees and the leaves on the ground and you have a different situation entirely. Then throw in those hills and it just gets worse. Add in the fact that most in rural settings wouldn't pay any attention to a couple of gun shots as it could be someone shooting a groundhog or other varmint. Near a place frequented by teenagers I MAY not pay attention to a scream as it might be kids at play. If such a scream were sudden and short the wind and hills might make it difficult to tell exactly where it came from. Then you bring up trail users listening to music with earbuds. (I don't agree with that practice while running or mountain biking as you lose situational awareness. It is illegal to do it while riding a bicycle on roads in some states for just reason.)

FSG said he heard/saw a "couple" down under the bridge right before Libby's dad started walking a trail looking for them. Didn't CE walking and taking pictures on the bridge also say she hear a couple? They are the only two I remember that actually heard something in the area that day, close to the time of the murders. I wonder just where this occured on the bridge, over water side or over land.

 

[sunshineray]

And that first night, they were looking for 'living' girls, that were lost or injured, or drunk or something. They did not believe, at that early phase of the search, that they were looking for 2 murdered young girls.

ETA: Snap, MtnLites....just saw your post ....great minds think alike...

If that was the case, looking for lost, injured or inebriated young girls, wouldn't that be all the more reason to continue searching through the cold night? If it had been two 6 years I believe they would have continued. JMO...I will never understand why the official, professional searching stopped. It's not like a bad storm came in while searching or it was in the high mountains. This was a local wilderness trail close to many homes and a highway. I greatly support LE but just don't understand that decision. AJMO

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Just some (more) speculation here.

I am not convinced that the person who committed the crime was a part of the actual search party.

I think that there is a chance that the killer may have had a close friend who was a searcher. Someone who is either in L.E. or the Fire Dept. who would be a valid source of 'real-time' certain information for him to keep on top of where the search was at.
'Someone who has followed this case to an extreme ' as the FBI has mentioned.

This person who searched could have unknowingly kept the killer apprised of the search status as it went on.

I really think that as soon as the crimes were committed, he got the hell out of there with a sick high from what he had done, and arrived quickly to his 'alibied' destination with a very reasonable excuse as to why he arrived later than expected.

I think that all searchers need to be questioned yet again and the right questions need to be asked. There may be 'that one tip' in there with the answers that are given.

JMO

 

[sloane7777]

Yeah, Unfortunately, I am afraid the area and the CS were contaminated by searchers and others that were there that day.

I think BG was there as well searching with them and that could throw DNA into quite a hard issue to make sense of , I think they know this too .

 

[sunshineray]

Just some (more) speculation here.

I am not convinced that the person who committed the crime was a part of the actual search party.

I think that there is a chance that the killer may have had a close friend who was a searcher. Someone who is either in L.E. or the Fire Dept. who would be a valid source of 'real-time' certain information for him to keep on top of where the search was at.
'Someone who has followed this case to an extreme ' as the FBI has mentioned.

This person who searched could have unknowingly kept the killer apprised of the search status as it went on.

I really think that as soon as the crimes were committed, he got the hell out of there with a sick high from what he had done, and arrived quickly to his 'alibied' destination with a very reasonable excuse as to why he arrived later than expected.

I think that all searchers need to be questioned yet again and the right questions need to be asked. There may be 'that one tip' in there with the answers that are given.

JMO

Finding out all the individuals who participated in that overnight search might have been part of the difficulty. Maybe that's where the new direction came from? Someone telling LE they saw so and so there while so and so denys it to LE and then it turns out he has a less than believable alibi?

 

[Boxer]

FSG said he heard/saw a "couple" down under the bridge right before Libby's dad started walking a trail looking for them. Didn't CE walking and taking pictures on the bridge also say she hear a couple? They are the only two I remember that actually heard something in the area that day, close to the time of the murders. I wonder just where this occured on the bridge, over water side or over land.

I would love to see some MSM on FSG and CE. Both were observer types, one on trails restoration and one on beautiful local water and bridges.