Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Thelastleg]

No, I don't think he gave a fake name. I think he came forward as a witness as he was seen leaving the crime scene in order to not be listed as a perp. Maybe he saw that video the night it was released and figured he can come forward to say he saw that guy in the video and 'help' with the description to throw everyone off his trail. Making a sketch look way different than himself, saying definitely not blue eyes, reddish brown hair. If he ran into people who knew him on the trail, he knew he had to cover his tracks in some way. Also thinking that maybe he was trying to get out unnoticed to get to the car but there were too many others out that day to go unnoticed. Again, just trying to tie that last press conference into the whole picture.

I'm so confused. Who is the guy in the video then? Is it this person in disguise?

 

[Falling Down]

Is there a trail entrance at the cemetery or just rough shod thru the woods to trails? When was last burial there prior to?

I drove the outer drive around the perimeter of the cemetery two years ago this week. A trail/drive leads from RL's property at the Southeast corner of the cemetery down into the gorge a little, adjacent to the old gravel pit (I'll include images from 1951 and 1992 below). According to YT videos I've seen, the "newer" part of the cemetery just west of there has a corner abutting the M family property where there's another trail.

So there are trails for walking and horse riding down in the gorge a little, but they are on private property, in this case the M family's and RL's.

 

[tresir2012]

@tresir2012 posted the GH Delphi video on the last thread.

"As we are talking of BG leaving the trails, this GH video discusses it at the 15 minute mark. GH is convinced he leaves via the cemetery."

I have to admit...I watched the part about BG leaving through the cemetery. Is the talk about a witness to someone leaving the cemetery a rumor? Since it's on GH video, which is allowed, I thought I'd ask. Hope it's okay.

I have posted the video on this thread too on page 1. I am thinking he was seen by a witness in a passing vehicle maybe. And that could be where the thought he was a hitchhiker came from.

 

[gregjrichards]

Any case involving a little kid always upsets me and gets my attention, but this case has really just devastated me. The fact that the one little girl had the presence of mind to not only film the guy but to record his voice just shows how incredibly smart she was. And to have her evidence not be enough to even FIND the guy is so awful. My heart breaks for them and their families.

I have no doubt Liberty’s evidence will be used against him in court by the prosecution one day. Don’t give up hope even though the case is devastating.

 

[TL4S]

I have posted the video on this thread too on page 1. I am thinking he was seen by a witness in a passing vehicle maybe. And that could be where the thought he was a hitchhiker came from.

Could the witness have seen BH, the guy working in the area?

 

[ZoriahNZ]

That's an excellent view! I still can't understand - assuming the sighting at Freedom Bridge is the killer - why he would be at or on the bridge if his vehicle was parked at the CPS. I know it not that far as the crow flies, but it isn't a straight shot over to CPS from the bridge. Again, this assumes that the vehicle at CPS was the killer's. So two BIG assumptions there - sighting at the Freedom Bridge is the killer and the killer parked his vehicle at CPS. I believe the two are not related. Either the killer was seen at Freedom Bridge and the vehicle at CPS belongs to an unaccounted for witness or the killer parked at CPS and our sighting at Freedom Bridge is of someone else.

LE is looking for the vehicle parked at the CPS building, but never said why. They never stated if anyone was seen at that vehicle - male OR female. While I suspect LE consider the driver a POI, LE has stopped short of saying they even want to talk to the driver and nothing about they are a POI or suspect. Again, it could be something as simple as a witness stating they saw someone with a professional grade camera taking photos in the area and they got into a vehicle parked at the CPS. This person could be someone on a day trip from Chicago or St. Louis and hasn't paid any attention to the case.

If you look at aerial footage from around that time of year in 2017, you can see there is actually a paved walkway from the CPS car park to the Freedom Bridge and a definite trail from the Freedom bridge to the High Monon Trail Bridge. It's a part of the historical trails. From what I understand people sometimes parked at the Freedom Bridge area and CPS building to use the trails when the trail head parking was full. Someone who frequents the area would know this and how there's access from there to the bridge.

 

[tresir2012]

Could the witness have seen BH, the guy working in the area?

BH worked for a pest control company and he was working at a property near there at the time, IIRC. I think it is more likely BH is a witness and perhaps saw BG on the road near the cemetery IMO.

 

[TL4S]

BH worked for a pest control company and he was working at a property near there at the time, IIRC. I think it is more likely BH is a witness and perhaps saw BG on the road near the cemetery IMO.

I should have made it clear that I wasn't suspecting BH of the crime. I just wonder if he was who the witness saw instead of BG.

 

[Justice101]

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There are 2 camera's facing West on the front side of the building. I don't know what range these camera's would have though. There is not a lot of trees or brush that would obstruct the line of vision.

Another factor on the camera might be what areas are X'd out in the field of view. I have a 6 camera system at my house and I tell the system to ignore certain blocks of area because I don't want every car that drives by setting off the motion detect. So I generally only have the area right next to entry to my doors and windows for recording and alerts.

However, LE may have taken the DVR which can record everything to see if there is activity anywhere within the field.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I'm so confused. Who is the guy in the video then? Is it this person in disguise?

Original sketch of BG is BG as is new sketch. I was just going through the case and wondering if one of the early witnesses came forward to say they saw BG on the Freedom Bridge was ACTUALLY BG misleading LE by providing 'help' with the first sketch and drawing attention away from himself. Also I believe he is a local that was spotted by at least one person who knew him and had to make himself less of a target. Who knows, if this is the case then he lied about BG (himself in reality) being on Freedom Bridge as well to throw investigators off. Also, I believe in the video BG is 'disguised' as much as he was wearing a hat, huge coat, possible scarf and who knows if anything else. Clearly he covered himself up so as not to be recognized. I believe that he put his disguise items (large coat, scarf, hat etc) in either a backpack or hidden to get later. At that point, a witness saw him undisguised and gave info for the new sketch which was BG without his disguise and is the current sketch.

And as for why LE seems to know who it is but has not arrested him, maybe his car broke down (CPS building?) and he had to call his dad (brother or friend) who now knows the truth but has covered for him. And the press conference was maybe an attempt to get BG to come forward without involving anyone else. Perhaps the family is well known and loved. Just a thought.

 

[sunshineray]

I have posted the video on this thread too on page 1. I am thinking he was seen by a witness in a passing vehicle maybe. And that could be where the thought he was a hitchhiker came from.

That video help me so much in getting a better feel for the topography and the events. Thank you very much for posting it again, I must have missed it the first time.

One thing I did notice is while GH was stating he was so certain the cemetery was BG's way out because a very good source pretty much confirmed that to him, he used his own deduction in what way BG was seen walking on the road. That made me think GH doesn't know the full info about that witness, where they exactly were when they saw BG.

The direction he predicted BG went had some structures that way. Is this the same road the storage facility is on? Was it in that same direction GH was saying BG probably walked?

 

[TL4S]

That video help me so much in getting a better feel for the topography and the events. Thank you very much for posting it again, I must have missed it the first time.

One thing I did notice is while GH was stating he was so certain the cemetery was BG's way out because a very good source pretty much confirmed that to him, he used his own deduction in what way BG was seen walking on the road. That made me think GH doesn't know the full info about that witness, where they exactly were when they saw BG.

The direction he predicted BG went had some structures that way. Is this the same road the storage facility is on? Was it in that same direction GH was saying BG probably walked?

Same road, but GH suggests BG walked the opposite way from the storage building, trail heads, and CPS building. I also noticed he was guessing the route. Important to note that this video was made before the change to YBG sketch.

I'm having trouble accepting BG walking along the road, in either direction. IMO, that's riskier and more suspicious than staying in the woods or on the trail. Plus, I'm not aware of any police road blocks on the east side of the cemetery, or any crime scene tape in the cemetery. Police used the cemetery and adjacent land as staging areas, even in the days after, which makes me think they had no reason at the time to think BG left that way. JMO

Don't know what to think.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Can someone please point me in the direction of a very thorough and detailed timeline of the case? Preferably one up to the present?

 

[sunshineray]

Same road, but GH suggests BG walked the opposite way from the storage building, trail heads, and CPS building. I also noticed he was guessing the route. Important to note that this video was made before the change to YBG sketch.

I'm having trouble accepting BG walking along the road, in either direction. IMO, that's riskier and more suspicious than staying in the woods or on the trail. Plus, I'm not aware of any police road blocks on the east side of the cemetery, or any crime scene tape in the cemetery. Police used the cemetery and adjacent land as staging areas, even in the days after, which makes me think they had no reason at the time to think BG left that way. JMO

Don't know what to think.

Well now that is a lot to think about. Is GH a local? I'm wondering since he's been vetted to be linked and quoted and the family are so open with him, doing interviews and all. Is he really in a situation to know 99.9% that BG left through that cemetery? I'm not trying to trash anyone, just trying to get a better handle on how much credence to give him.

 

[sunshineray]

If anyone knows, was FSG alone that day or did he have a walking companion?

 

[tresir2012]

I should have made it clear that I wasn't suspecting BH of the crime. I just wonder if he was who the witness saw instead of BG.

The witnesses we know about saw BG on the trails and at FBridge right? BH wasn't at those places, he said he was at a property near the trails/park, so I don't think a witness could have seen him there. But who knows right?

 

[tresir2012]

Can someone please point me in the direction of a very thorough and detailed timeline of the case? Preferably one up to the present?

Page 39 on the media thread is good to start with. It is a post by the foreigner with links backing it up. Go to post 1 in this thread. Find the media thread link in that post and click on it, then go to last page (page 39) and it is one of the posts on that page.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

No, I don't think he gave a fake name. I think he came forward as a witness as he was seen leaving the crime scene in order to not be listed as a perp. Maybe he saw that video the night it was released and figured he can come forward to say he saw that guy in the video and 'help' with the description to throw everyone off his trail. Making a sketch look way different than himself, saying definitely not blue eyes, reddish brown hair. If he ran into people who knew him on the trail, he knew he had to cover his tracks in some way. Also thinking that maybe he was trying to get out unnoticed to get to the car but there were too many others out that day to go unnoticed. Again, just trying to tie that last press conference into the whole picture.

I really doubt the perp gave false witness accounts. Every male who was there that day has been extensively questioned and multiple times, I bet, and asked for a dna sample. I do not believe the police would fall for this ruse

 

[tresir2012]

Well now that is a lot to think about. Is GH a local? I'm wondering since he's been vetted to be linked and quoted and the family are so open with him, doing interviews and all. Is he really in a situation to know 99.9% that BG left through that cemetery? I'm not trying to trash anyone, just trying to get a better handle on how much credence to give him.

He is from Portland Oregon and always says he bases his speculations on facts so he usually is a reliable source. You have to make up your own mind. It was initially reported by LE that they were looking for witnesses who may have seen or picked up a hitchhiker so I don't discount that he left via the cemetery.

 

[Howcanppldosuch]

He is from Portland Oregon and always says he bases his speculations on facts so he usually is a reliable source. You have to make up your own mind. It was initially reported by LE that they were looking for witnesses who may have seen or picked up a hitchhiker so I don't discount that he left via the cemetery.

Wasn’t there an account of a man walking on the roadway? I seem to recall this being discussed