Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[IceIce9]

and..it gets "deeper" LOL

Hip boot deep.

 

[susiQ]

After all this time, what would you do if you were an investigator in the Delphi double murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German? After 2 1/2 years, how would you solve the case?

snipped by me
I know what I would be doing and I feel confident LE are doing the same, SINCE the April PC. I believe this is a very complicated case. I've said it many times. If it weren't, we'd be here following the trial of the killer(s). My biggest issue with this case is the direction it took from the beginning. Why? How did that come about? Did someone lie? Did many lie? Did someone skillfully steer the investigation down a dead end away from the killer(s)? It doesn't appear they initially investigated all the possible people that could have had a motive? Going down the wrong path early on likely resulted in important evidence being lost or never gathered. Much more difficult now, but certainly not impossible if they can gather enough evidence to build a solid case. Too bad, so sad they messed up, and they did. DC's demeanour at the PC was evidence of that. JMHO.

ETA: There were at least 3 LE agencies involved and by Tobe Leazenby's own words, he has felt the killer was a "local". At the April PC a number of citizens expressed that they had always felt it was a local. So WHO felt otherwise? ISP or the FBI? What convinced THEM to go the other route for 2 plus years? That's a pertinent question we will never get the answer to.

ETTA: Maybe some subterfuge going on:
trickery, intrigue, deviousness, evasion, deceit, deception, dishonesty, duplicity, guile, cunning, "craft" . I think I'm done now

 

[Pedrosmom]

I think the Delphi LE have done well. They recognized this crime was beyond their local resources, and they called in the appropriate help. I don't think they are waiting for DNA to solve this crime. They either have the DNA info by now or they don't. The repeated requests for someone to come forward if they recognize the person who "is hiding in plain sight" tells me they know who it is. How would they know the person was hiding in plain sight if they did not know who it U.S.? I think if LE did not know who did these murders, they would not know where he is hiding. Hopefully, soon that needed person will come forward and give the girl's families and the town of Delphi some peace.

Did they call in the right people right away? Who collected the evidence at the crime scene? Did local LE think they could handle it and collected all of the crime scene evidence without realizing that this, is beyond their means, experience and realm of what their on the job training provided. Was the process by which they collected DNA done properly? IMO this local LE tried to handle the evidence collection process themselves and in doing so missed the opportunity to get the smoking gun. When I read that LE didn’t think these girls were in danger through a cold winter’s night was a bad judgment call. Local LE wants the notoriety for solving a double murder case. I think all LE wants that under their belt. I don’t doubt for one second that egos dictated how this case would be managed - too early. By the time they realized they were in over their head and sought the help of other LE agencies. Were they too late? Did they hastily process a crime scene with some assumptions in mind that they “had enough” to process? We are all imperfect humans. It is our strife for perfection where we learn from our mistakes. Let’s hope I’m wrong.
MOO

 

[~ Amy ~]

It would kind of be stating the obvious until he is in an iron bar cage where he belongs of course there is a danger. They clearly don’t want to make the community more afraid than it already is or cause more panic and anxiety than necessary.

I understand not wanting to spread panic but , I would think they would at least tell the public to have a heightened awareness while out and about and discuss the dangers to their children. I would rather be warned if more children are at risk of this monster as to not. And I have yet to hear any warnings in their press conferences. I see many of children standing at bus stops in the early morning hours with no adult supervision. Some of these children are way too young. Sadly as time goes on people tend to let their guard down . It is almost as if LE thinks this will be his only crime and he will never do it again. That is what I find very very ODD. I don't wish anyone to live under a rock and have their life lived in fear ….I just want to know why LE seems so relaxed in not addressing that issue. Every child deserves to have a fun filled life but sadly it doesn't always work that way.....Abby and Libby were doing just that and you see how that turned out,
JMO

 

[Hoosier952]

In my opinion, after 2 1/2 years, investigators need to be a little more open to the idea that the killer might not be someone local to the Delphi, IN area. Just because someone knows about the Monon High Bridge does not make them local to the Delphi, IN area. I understand why people think that, but public places can be visited by anyone from anywhere.

Snipped- Yep, I think they are stuck on local, when I really can't be convinced anything that was done that day had to have been done by a local, and I don't think it had to have been planned. It's on Google maps, the trailhead is very obvious from the highway, it's right outside of town. Delphi offers plenty of restaurants and gas stations for travelers passing through and lets them avoid traveling to Lafayette and dealing with the extra traffic. Just this spring, my kids and I ended up touring a private elk farm because we were driving down a gravel road in the middle of nowhere and saw a high fence with an elk behind it. The owner just happened to be out feeding (and probably wondered what we were doing) and stopped to talk and offered to show us the babies and antlers they've collected. I didn't even know what state we were in at the time because we hadn't been on a highway for two days. That place was and still isn't on Google maps and we still managed to find it.

Have they taken DNA from their own PD? Have they taken DNA from the magistrate, from the mayorate, from their doctors, priests, lawyers?

Snipped-This is my biggest concern if it is someone local and may also be the reason for potential DNA issues. It's possible that someone at the scene or within the search party could have easily been responsible and would have a very valid reason for their DNA being at the scene. If one of the DNA profiles matched an officer, I honestly doubt they would even consider questioning them, it would just be assumed they were doing their job. I'm not knocking LE in any way, but history has a way of showing that most LE are not treated the same as civilians when it comes to their actions. When you're being investigated by your own...

 

[IceIce9]

Snipped-This is my biggest concern if it is someone local and may also be the reason for potential DNA issues. It's possible that someone at the scene or within the search party could have easily been responsible and would have a very valid reason for their DNA being at the scene. If one of the DNA profiles matched an officer, I honestly doubt they would even consider questioning them, it would just be assumed they were doing their job. I'm not knocking LE in any way, but history has a way of showing that most LE are not treated the same as civilians when it comes to their actions. When you're being investigated by your own...

Were searchers required to show photo ID and sign in?

 

[Hoosier952]

Were searchers required to show photo ID and sign in?

Maybe the second day, but I never heard for sure. The first night was not an organized search, so anyone who searched that night wouldn't necessarily be known by LE or others searching. And several searched late into the night even after the search was called off. The official search didn't start until 10am or so, I would imagine there were several already searching that morning before it became an official search.

 

[heartgoesout]

Were searchers required to show photo ID and sign in?

The second day searchers who gathered were asked to sign in. I am not sure if they asked for ID.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

i'd sure like some justice for these girls

 

[Hoosier952]

I understand not wanting to spread panic but , I would think they would at least tell the public to have a heightened awareness while out and about and discuss the dangers to their children. I would rather be warned if more children are at risk of this monster as to not. And I have yet to hear any warnings in their press conferences. I see many of children standing at bus stops in the early morning hours with no adult supervision. Some of these children are way too young. Sadly as time goes on people tend to let their guard down . It is almost as if LE thinks this will be his only crime and he will never do it again. That is what I find very very ODD. I don't wish anyone to live under a rock and have their life lived in fear ….I just want to know why LE seems so relaxed in not addressing that issue. Every child deserves to have a fun filled life but sadly it doesn't always work that way.....Abby and Libby were doing just that and you see how that turned out,
JMO

I wonder if LE thought this was going to be an easy case initially? I think LE thought they'd be looking at personal connections and it would be done and over in no time. Therefore, no reason to panic the community. And once those words have been said, you can't come back a week later and tell everyone to lock their doors and keep the lights on because there's a deranged murderer hanging around. That would have caused A LOT more panic than it would have initially.

I think LE screwed up that first night. I think LE thought they were runaways and treated them as such. If LE honestly thought there was any possible way two teen girls were lost or injured on a cold night, they would not have called off the search. Sure it was dark and it was foggy, but they do searches all the time in far more treacherous terrain in the dark. I would imagine half the folks in Carroll county have tromped around in the woods in the same conditions at night for fun, they would have been quick to do it to potentially rescue two girls.

I'm half convinced LE still thinks this is someone affiliated with the girls in some fashion and that's why they are so sure it's someone with ties to Delphi.

 

[IceIce9]

The second day searchers who gathered were asked to sign in. I am not sure if they asked for ID.

So possibly there is no way to know the names of all the searchers who were walking through on the first day and overnight?

 

[Boxer]

I wonder if LE thought this was going to be an easy case initially? I think LE thought they'd be looking at personal connections and it would be done and over in no time. Therefore, no reason to panic the community. And once those words have been said, you can't come back a week later and tell everyone to lock their doors and keep the lights on because there's a deranged murderer hanging around. That would have caused A LOT more panic than it would have initially.

I think LE screwed up that first night. I think LE thought they were runaways and treated them as such. If LE honestly thought there was any possible way two teen girls were lost or injured on a cold night, they would not have called off the search. Sure it was dark and it was foggy, but they do searches all the time in far more treacherous terrain in the dark. I would imagine half the folks in Carroll county have tromped around in the woods in the same conditions at night for fun, they would have been quick to do it to potentially rescue two girls.

I'm half convinced LE still thinks this is someone affiliated with the girls in some fashion and that's why they are so sure it's someone with ties to Delphi.

 

[gregjrichards]

I understand not wanting to spread panic but , I would think they would at least tell the public to have a heightened awareness while out and about and discuss the dangers to their children. I would rather be warned if more children are at risk of this monster as to not. And I have yet to hear any warnings in their press conferences. I see many of children standing at bus stops in the early morning hours with no adult supervision. Some of these children are way too young. Sadly as time goes on people tend to let their guard down . It is almost as if LE thinks this will be his only crime and he will never do it again. That is what I find very very ODD. I don't wish anyone to live under a rock and have their life lived in fear ….I just want to know why LE seems so relaxed in not addressing that issue. Every child deserves to have a fun filled life but sadly it doesn't always work that way.....Abby and Libby were doing just that and you see how that turned out,
JMO

They actually did at one press conference I think it was the first after the girls were found they said “make sure you know what your kids are doing” or something to that effect. They have also said at a press conference when asked about the possibility of him attacking again that locals should remain vigilant.

I absolutely think that more needs to be done to educate children and teens of what to do in a dangerous situation. They should be given personal alarms and the chance to go to self defence classes at the very least and not just in Delphi, Indiana. I do not know whether this would have made any difference though.

I do frequently wonder why to the best of our knowledge he has not attacked or murdered again maybe he is afraid his “luck” will run out and he doesn’t want to chance it. I just hope he never gets the opportunity to attack again

 

[Boxer]

I agree. But they seem really heavy handed about it all.
I mean that you never hear about the accidental shooting of the high school girl the same day the first photos of BG were published, yet that shooter/killer went on to be arrested/convicted and sentenced about a year later for child sex exploitation. Weapons nut, local young man.
And apparently there was no investigation into his causing his HS age girlfriend's death. Meaning he told the responding deputies what they wanted to hear.

 

[heartgoesout]

So possibly there is no way to know the names of all the searchers who were walking through on the first day and overnight?

I think definitely there is no way to know who searched the first day and overnight. Furthermore, if someone didn't sign in on the second day and kinda moseyed in or came late or from a different direction with as many searchers as there was I'd say next to impossible to have tabs on everyone there over two days.

 

[Boxer]

I think definitely there is no way to know who searched the first day and overnight. Furthermore, if someone didn't sign in on the second day and kinda moseyed in or came late or from a different direction with as many searchers as there was I'd say next to impossible to have tabs on everyone there over two days.

I have read accounts of the second day.
They were assembled in a much different way from the first. The volunteer searchers were briefed i town until 11am, and sent to search an area far from where the girls were found.

 

[IceIce9]

I have read accounts of the second day.
They were assembled in a much different way from the first. The volunteer searchers were briefed i town until 11am, and sent to search an area far from where the girls were found.

Isn’t it possible that some had just wandered into the area from a different direction, and not signed up to be a part of the official search?

 

[Yemelyan]

Something that I can not wrap my mind around is why have LE never told the public to watch out for danger ? It just seems so odd that they don't ever say this crazed animal is out there and could strike again.

LE actually did say on at least two interview occasions something to the effect of, "he could do this again, and this time it could be your mother or sister." Once it was Supt. Carter who said this, and the other time it was lead detective Holeman. But both times this warning was couched in terms of trying to get more tips to get the case solved, not as a general warning to the people of Delphi about a dangerous person among them. Because this contradicted their previously non-committal response to whether people in Delphi needed to be worried for their safety, it stuck out to me both times.

 

[TheVisual]

Yes, that is odd, ESPECIALLY after the April 22nd PC, seeing they now believe he either lives in Delphi, visits Delphi or works in Delphi. The only explanation I can come up with is that initially they took the position that this was most likely a random killing by an out-of-state killer so reoffending in the area was unlikely? HOWEVER, now that they believe the killer is local, "may be in this very room" local, I can only conclude that this was not a random attack, it was targeted, and they suspect why, and therefore do not feel everyday citizens of Delphi need to fear for their children, UNLESS, they are involved in the seedy underworld of methamphetamine and other illegal goings on. As always, JMO
ed:sp

There might have been something in the crime scene that made them believe was a one time incident. Would be nice to have a profile.

 

[Boxer]

Isn’t it possible that some had just wandered into the area from a different direction, and not signed up to be a part of the official search?

I guess that could happen, but searchers were assigned in groups so MOO a random single searcher, especially away from their assigned area would stand out.