Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #112

[Charlot123]

Very similar, huh? Quite a coincidence, being a young man of note in such a location, one year before the murders, too.

In the photograph, notice his position, and the expressions on the faces of those directly adjacent.

No, yours is definitely older than mine. Maybe not mine, given the age. I also wonder how their voices sound.

 

[somequestions]

If there was no eyewitness, how was the YBG sketch created?

The two sketches were created from eyewitnesses who(in my opinion) saw someone walking on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. If any of the eyewitnesses actually saw the killer they did not give a very good description. I think the two sketches released were of people law enforcement has not been able to include/exclude from consideration. So they put them out there because what else could they do?

Many, many people think they have seen the Delphi killer. I am sure law enforcement has probably received sketches too.

I think the eyewitness sketches(both of them) are just people that were out walking on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. I think law enforcement just put them out there to see if maybe they could find either one of the two people to either include or exclude them as the bridge guy. So far it has not worked out.

 

[moonlessnight]

the phone reset it is very coincidental and could be part of the twist. Is there some reason Libby not having her phone that day could have made them more vulnerable? Or offered an opportunity to track her via the phone she was borrowing?

Ives being prosecutor of DG is also coincidence, which in a small town is not unusual, but also note should be taken.

That whole factory reset of her phone is an interesting subject. I wonder why and I'm sure LE has investigated this thoroughly by now. It's an anomaly, Libby not having her phone that day. It may not play into any of the course of actions taken that day by the girls...but then again it may hold a purpose that does. Anything done out of the ordinary could hold weight with the circumstances that followed. JMO

 

[moonlessnight]

good question.

Why would she have issues with the phone company if it was her phone?

 

[Spartygirl]

This isn't the MSM with the 2:07 stamp, but it has a facebook pic with the original photos (slide 2) and the 2:07 mentioned. I just don't know where that time comes from. Unless somebody opened it immediately as it came in and either replied or something else that could be referenced later to give an exact time , how would they know? Seeing the snapchat photo at 9:07pm, for example, and seeing "7 hours ago" does not mean it was taken at 2:07, in and of itself. It could have been taken up to 59 minutes before or after 2:07. So anywhere from 1:08 - 3:06. If that's even how the 2:07 was determined.

I'm not trying to be confusing, and I know SC has been discussed infinitely, but I've yet to see any proof of how the 2:07 time became so ubiquitously accepted. It's not to say it isn't factual, I just haven't seen it confirmed.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The murders of Abby & Libby

Agree---one of Libby's friends saw the SC pic and posted it that he saw it at 2:07 PM, we know the girls were dropped off around 1:35-1:45 at the lot across from Mears, they walked through that path to the trails, came up to the split of the 501 and 505 trails, took the 501 trail to the bridge, then walked across the bridge. the time frame matches up also with when he said the SC pic was sent.

 

[Spartygirl]

It first appeared in the media around 9 p.m. that first night when the 7 hours ago was visible IIRC.

Correct..I have a SS of the friend who saw the SC and he posted the time ..I dont think it is within TOS here to share but I believe that is where the time stamp comes from. I do recall seeing the original SC with the time but I do not believe I saved that. Who knew we would be closing on 3yrs so a lot of things at the beginning I did not note or save. UGH

 

[moonlessnight]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

Yes. ISP put that on the billboards as the time Libby recorded the video.

 

[Spartygirl]

the phone reset it is very coincidental and could be part of the twist. Is there some reason Libby not having her phone that day could have made them more vulnerable? Or offered an opportunity to track her via the phone she was borrowing?

Ives being prosecutor of DG is also coincidence, which in a small town is not unusual, but also note should be taken.

Libby DID have her phone that day

 

[Charlot123]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

Perhaps simply not to antagonize him? They saw "danger", saw that he was on edge, had a scarf over his nose. Did not want to be recognized.

 

[Spartygirl]

It first appeared in the media around 9 p.m. that first night when the 7 hours ago was visible IIRC.

There was a 5 hour one and then the SC photo released from Media that put their own time on it showing the 2:07 time at the top of picture

 

[gregjrichards]

But, while we assume that BG is the murderer, he may not be. Maybe the second one was waiting in the woods? We don’t know who and what (and even where) the girls saw last. So they are putting the time of the last sighting. Let it stay so - because officially, he is BG. Presumption of innocence, etc.

I’m pretty sure law enforcement have been clear that bridge guy is the murderer of Abigail and Liberty. If the attack starts seconds after he is captured on Liberty’s phone they must be pretty sure he is the one who did this.

 

[Spartygirl]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

BBM==we dont know what time BG was shown on bridge, do we ??

 

[Charlot123]

so IF the times are correct, that means they waited on that end of the bridge for over 20 minutes - from 2:07 in the middle of the bridge to 2:30 when BG is crossing. That tells me they were meeting up with someone. It also tells me they were not worried about anything at 2:07, or probably until 2:25 or so when BG started crossing the bridge.

GH verified it takes 5 min minimum and 10 min walking very slowly to cross the bridge.

That also means BG wasn't following them from a bend in the trail or a T between trails - he would have caught up with them faster if he had been.

My conclusion is that BG planned to meet them at the end of the bridge at 2:30. They thought they were meeting someone else.

My remaining question is, did they know him. I agree they would have said his name if they knew him, unless they were unable to make any sounds due to shock, terror, having their mouths covered, or being incapacitated.

MOO

Another question- would they know everyone in high school? Probably, the most popular athletes, yes. But every boy? What about the shy ones?

 

[Charlot123]

I looked at his walk again. I now think that it is so odd because there is something in his pants - he has a hole on his R knee, from frequently carrying this thing that looks like a stick. Could it be a prosthesis? Then he won't get down the hill. The handle of a badminton racket, with the upper part being under his jacket? Something that used to be a racket but was turned into a weapon? Looks almost professional. Some kind of a club? Even a golf club can be a killing thing, only it doesn't look like one.

Any ideas? I think it is a certain weapon. A baseball bat? With the narrow end down, and the upper one under his jacket?

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know about you, but for me this case has been a roller coaster. I didn’t become aware of it until after the first identikit was released. I watched the BG video and tried to decipher what exactly I was looking at, coming up with something similar to the first identikit. I wasn’t able to identify what type of hat BG was wearing, but agreed that the hat in the identikit was about as close as I could come to any kind of solution.

Each time a new suspect was announced. I agreed they looked enough like the first identikit, that I was convinced LE had they’re man.

Then came the April,23 press conference where LE produced the second identikit accompanied by a profile.

This profile dramatically reduced the size of the suspect pool, and I saw an opportunity to not only speculate from the sidelines, but to participate in solving this case.

I do however have few resources, and even fewer skills. The only avenue I could come up with to identify the suspect depicted by the second identikit, was such a long shot, i didn’t even bother trying for a couple of days.

<modsnip>

I no longer see an individual resembling the first identikit when viewing the BG video. You may not agree, but if you’re interested, try pausing the video frame by frame until BG’s left ear becomes apparent, then use it as context to decipher the rest of the image. What I see is far clearer an image than any other hypothesis I’ve had of what the BG video actually represents. What I see is a young male with no hat, a knot in his hair at the top of his head, no facial hair, with his chin close to his chest, looking down as one might whilst trying to cross a bridge like this one. I see an image entirely consistent with the individual depicted by the second identikit.

<modsnip>

If this first identikit is not BG, and he is not the culprit. Then who is he?

<modsnip>

I also considered that the witness whom described the first identikit, may be the perpetrator. Unable to exit the area quickly enough, trying to divert attention away from themselves by pointing the finger in a direction where there is most likely motive to be found.

<modsnip: LE specifically said to disregard the style of hat>

I’m not sure when LE got hold of the witness statement which produced the second identikit. It seems to me given the size of Delfi, it had to have been very early on.

<modsnip>

I suggest LE concocted the first identikit, in order to apply pressure to their suspect. Hopeful it would cause him to crack under said pressure, and confess.

<modsnip>

I’m sure LE had the best of intentions, just not the most cleaver ones.

In the end, misleading an entire nation of both potential witnesses and victims, and allowing the actual perpetrator the opportunity to do a great deal more harm.

If this is an accurate account of the situation, then how do you think it will play out?

If LE was going to come clean wouldn’t they have done it by now, and if they’re planning to keep it quiet. How can there be a trial where a witness that does not exist, will have to be produced. How can you both catch the culprit and at the same time have no trial?

Perhaps neither will happen, and the perpetrator will either go scot-free or end up “quietly” dead in a ditch, leaving the case to remain unsolved.

<modsnip - it is a violation of TOS to link to pictures of random people a member thinks looks like the suspect sketch>


I can feel the hate mail coming already, and I haven’t even posted yet.

This is just the way I see it, I’m not telling you what to think. I’m only posting out of a sense of social responsibility.

Regardless of what you think of my post, Thanks for reading.

Cheers.

To be honest, to me the perp reminds a young man, but his voice belongs to a much older guy. I would be looking at the potential of much younger men being involved, but can they have such a "mature" voice? Years of smoking produce it.

And also, I am thinking that the guy is not tall. 5'6" - 5'10", and more likely, on 5'6" end. If it was a young male, insecure about his height, he could have fallen for a midlleschooler girl.

 

[Charlot123]

I’m pretty sure law enforcement have been clear that bridge guy is the murderer of Abigail and Liberty. If the attack starts seconds after he is captured on Liberty’s phone they must be pretty sure he is the one who did this.

I am starting to question everything after "oops, new sketch". I don't know if there was one perpetrator, or two. I don't know if the girls were killed there and just left till the morning, or brought there at nighttime, or something else. I think they had some arrangement at the bridge, but their voices are not heard, and the adults are telling their version of the events (I don't think they are doing it intentionally, simply, human memory is shaky).

 

[gregjrichards]

I am starting to question everything after "oops, new sketch". I don't know if there was one perpetrator, or two. I don't know if the girls were killed there and just left till the morning, or brought there at nighttime, or something else. I think they had some arrangement at the bridge, but their voices are not heard, and the adults are telling their version of the events (I don't think they are doing it intentionally, simply, human memory is shaky).

I understand questioning everything I am still trying to figure out what happened that resulted in the press conference and new sketch myself. It is baffling to me. Unfortunately I don’t think we will know any answers until an arrest is made.

 

[Thelastleg]

Libby DID have her phone that day

Everytime I think I have something straight in my head I see a post that changes it. I thought Libby had her Grandma's phone only. Does this mean that Libby had her own sim card in it and her Grandma was using Libby's reset phone. How did the family contact grandma? I guess on a landline?

 

[sunshineray]

But, while we assume that BG is the murderer, he may not be. Maybe the second one was waiting in the woods? We don’t know who and what (and even where) the girls saw last. So they are putting the time of the last sighting. Let it stay so - because officially, he is BG. Presumption of innocence, etc.

The ISP have stated he is the killer of Abby and Libby. Why the doubting what they've told the public? I don't understand?

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

“When you see the video, watch the person’s mannerisms as they walk,” ISP Supt. Doug Carter said. “Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know?”

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch... is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls," Carter said."

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

 

[sunshineray]

The two sketches were created from eyewitnesses who(in my opinion) saw someone walking on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. If any of the eyewitnesses actually saw the killer they did not give a very good description. I think the two sketches released were of people law enforcement has not been able to include/exclude from consideration. So they put them out there because what else could they do?

Many, many people think they have seen the Delphi killer. I am sure law enforcement has probably received sketches too.

I think the eyewitness sketches(both of them) are just people that were out walking on the Monon High Bridge trail that day. I think law enforcement just put them out there to see if maybe they could find either one of the two people to either include or exclude them as the bridge guy. So far it has not worked out.

LE has said the first sketch released, the OBG sketch is not a person of interest to them anymore. That tells me that OBG and NBG are not the same person but two separate people. I'm taking LE at their word from the April PC, no longer interested in OBG guy the NBG sketch is the face of the killer, the face of the man captured by Libby on her phone.