Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

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Middle/high school teacher here ...I don't think they ran. Kids that age are pretty compliant unless they have had a rough upbringing, moo, of course. If he showed any kind of weapon or even suggested a weapon, most girls I know that age would have complied and stayed together, as they've been taught. my own opinion and experience only.
 
Middle/high school teacher here ...I don't think they ran. Kids that age are pretty compliant unless they have had a rough upbringing, moo, of course. If he showed any kind of weapon or even suggested a weapon, most girls I know that age would have complied and stayed together, as they've been taught. my own opinion and experience only.
 
sunshineray said:
I would too! I don't believe it's ever been said officially by LE just what was meant by a couple. Didn't CE also mention hearing arguing? I not sure on that.
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I have always wondered about the couple too. This is just MOO and I have always wondered about GK and the girlfriend AG. It appears he hung out around RL's place with the horses. They sure don’t appear to be honourable people with getting arrested for another murder.

What if she hung under the bridge and he herded them down there. It doesn’t seem either one of them would hesitate to murder someone. If she were there, the girls probably wouldn’t be scared to go.

Then after they could have hidden in the outbuildings or haystacks at RL's place and RL would never know that they were there. LE sure were looking for something there.

I have never heard it said that he didn’t do it but I have also not heard that he did do it. I just think he is capable of murder and I think he will be found guilty when he goes to trial. Maybe the girls were the first.
 
sunshineray said:
The other very upsetting thing was when BP said I begged them not to stop searching, I could see and feel myself doing the same. Then MP adding something about it being so cold at night in February, just heartbreaking.
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Yes! This struck me too. I think it’s the first time I’ve heard any family member, other than Libby’s mother, question anything LE has done in this case. They need to speak up. There is a lot wrong here. Just my thoughts.
 
Question specifically for any LEO or former LEO's.
As I look across many threads and cases on WS, it seems there are a vast array of investigative protocols being used. (Of course I don't have all the facts, just observation and anecdotal info).

My question, is, are there standard protocols/procedures that *all* LE organizations *must* follow in the course of an investigation, and if so, who monitors for compliance/competency? Not picking on the Delphi LE, just interested.

Thanks in advance for informed replies.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Blue Amethyst said:
I have always wondered about the couple too. This is just MOO and I have always wondered about GK and the girlfriend AG. It appears he hung out around RL's place with the horses. They sure don’t appear to be honourable people with getting arrested for another murder.

What if she hung under the bridge and he herded them down there. It doesn’t seem either one of them would hesitate to murder someone. If she were there, the girls probably wouldn’t be scared to go.

Then after they could have hidden in the outbuildings or haystacks at RL's place and RL would never know that they were there. LE sure were looking for something there.

I have never heard it said that he didn’t do it but I have also not heard that he did do it. I just think he is capable of murder and I think he will be found guilty when he goes to trial. Maybe the girls were the first.
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I didn't know they hung around RL's place...wow.
 
Ozoner said:
We know that some guy was causing trouble on the trail a few days before the murder and interacted with several people. And we know that a witness saw someone doing something on the day of the murders that the witness felt needed to be reported.
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My guess is that those two incidents led to the original and newly-released sketch respectively.
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It's not a dead certainty that either man is actually BG; in fact, it seems that the first man has been cleared.
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That's what I thought too, that the first sketch wasn't applicable any longer, according to LE saying as much. Then comes along the "combination of the two", which is still being said a la In Pursuit show the other night. What to think really?
 
sunshineray said:
That's what I thought too, that the first sketch wasn't applicable any longer, according to LE saying as much. Then comes along the "combination of the two", which is still being said a la In Pursuit show the other night. What to think really?
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I think that they consider the second sketch to be BG. They just don't want to discourage people from phoning in tips in case the sketch isn't a perfect likeness. They also want to downplay how badly they bungled things by releasing the original sketch.
 
sunshineray said:
Ok I just watched the In Pursit episode and I can't help but be again, so totally upset by ISP Carter's statements about the killer being a combination of sketch 1 and 2.

"Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say"
"The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.
Now, that's no longer the case."...

..."While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."...

"The Delphi community should reflect back on people they know in the community that look similar to the sketch released on April 22," the release said."

I just don't understand the conflicting statements that ISP Carter has made. It truly baffles me as to why it continues without it being specifically explained, by him, as being a mistake was made and this is the correction. Isn't that what the whole releasing the second sketch was all about, righting a wrong? Apparently not in Carter's mind...why?
Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say
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I agree. It's super frustrating and confusing. Especially when you consider the video. The image of BG from the video looks a bit like the guy depicted in the first sketch. It's plausible. The same cannot be said for the second sketch (IMO) because he looks nothing like the man in the video. The guy depicted in sketch #2 appears to be very young... he's maybe even a teenager but early 20's at most. The guy in the video is definitely older than that. I think that much is obvious. His clothing, the commanding tone of his voice, his posture, his gait... all of it speaks to someone older than a teenager or very young adult. It doesn't make any sense.
 
StarryStarryNight said:
OK. Here’s my latest crazy theory. This is about Theory #5 for me, but that’s probably about average for all of us by now I’m thinking. So read it, think on it, pick it apart, point out it’s flaws. I am interested. Just be kind about it.
One thing that I could never understand is why the killer would purposely lead the girls across the creek in mid-February in Indiana. But...I accepted it. Until last fall when I stopped accepting it and decided they all ended up across the creek only because the girls had made a run for it.(see StarryStarryNight crazy theory #4) Anyway. Now the issue became if the killer was not leading them across the creek, where, on the south side of the creek, was he leading them. Maybe that deer shack upstream? Hard to figure. But there is here this scenario.

The killer drives into the long private driveway that goes under the south end of MHB. He doesn’t park it under the bridge but about 50 yards west. Lots of trees there according to the map.( I absolutely do not believe his car is visible in any photo taken of the bridge that day) He is there hoping for an opportunity to kidnap someone. He sees the girls start across the bridge from the north side and as they near the south side he steps onto the bridge and begins to cross in the opposite direction and passes them at some point. He then turns around and walks back toward the south end like the girls. Pictures and videos are taken. As the killer reaches the end of the bridge he tells the girls he is a bridge safety inspector or something and the bridge is unsafe and they cannot cross back over. A conversation ensues on how the girls will get back to trailhead and he says he knows a place to cross. They question it. He says “Guys...you cannot re-cross this unsafe bridge...down the hill”. (This is the gap in the audio clip. LE doesn’t want people to know he presented himself as an authority figure) They all go down the first slope to the private drive where he pulls a gun and tries to walk them to his car. They take off running down toward the creek and cross it. The killer chases and eventually catches them and kills them. He crosses the creek, climbs the hill, gets in his car and is gone.LE is concentrating on the other side of the creek and it’s trailheads etc and the killer was never really over there.
I know there some holes in it. So let me know what you think. In a gentle and friendly way of course.
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Hi all,
Been doing my fortnightly thread check but not posted for Months.

I really like some aspects of this SSN ( @#5! ) especially .....

Since the Apr19 Presser and the added Word 'Guys' , Ive toyed with the idea that BG enters the bridge scene initially from the South side,passes the Girls , who happen to be recording their mundane chats about 'things that girls talk about' (BP?AW? Source). This captures his initial, nonchalant, 'Guys' as he passes.

The gap/editing of the recording, if indeed there is a gap/edit, covers the period as BG is seemingly walking away from the girls and maybe captures the girls discussing their unease or the conversation about options to go in a diff direction to avoid further contact ( maybe even taking place after/during when BG has turned around and is heading/hurtling back towards them/the South side?)

This eases my puzzlement as to why BG is not on any earlier pic if he enters the bridge on the North side, or why the girls didnt capture an image of BG earlier.
I worry that the conversation about options of going off the bridge a diff way seemingly makes sense if he indeed approaches them from the N side, they have time to grow concerned/uneasy and have time to hold such a convo....
But....if this was the case that they were concerned enough to chat etc ,then I feel they would be concerned enough to take an earlier pic.




Sorry for the wordy ramble on such a specific point of the theory!
 
cujenn81 said:
I agree. It's super frustrating and confusing. Especially when you consider the video. The image of BG from the video looks a bit like the guy depicted in the first sketch. It's plausible. The same cannot be said for the second sketch (IMO) because he looks nothing like the man in the video. The guy depicted in sketch #2 appears to be very young... he's maybe even a teenager but early 20's at most. The guy in the video is definitely older than that. I think that much is obvious. His clothing, the commanding tone of his voice, his posture, his gait... all of it speaks to someone older than a teenager or very young adult. It doesn't make any sense.
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I think the ambiguity makes sense only if one concludes LE does not know the identity of the killer. If they don’t know his identity, neither do they know other details such as his age, his facial features, nor his weight or height nor precisely what he wore on the day of the murders, etc. They can’t know what they don’t know.

And remembering a sketch isn’t the same as a photograph and very few people have photographic memories. And sometimes how someone looked 3 years ago is not at all the same as their appearance today. So that’s also why I think LE has stated numerous time they’re not looking for side by side comparisons.

But that’s not necessarily a bad thing because if someone out there thinks they know who the killer is or even has a vaguely uneasy suspicion because of the way a person acts or what he’s said, along with any possibility of association to Delphi I’d sure hope between the video, the voice, the still photos and the two sketches - if the suspected person vaguely resembled any one of that, they’d call in the tip. I think that’s also why LE has intentionally cast a very wide net.

Which is also the reason the case continues to be covered by various media - a mysterious Who Done It indeed. Hopefully the answer will be known before another year passes by.
 
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cujenn81 said:
I agree. It's super frustrating and confusing. Especially when you consider the video. The image of BG from the video looks a bit like the guy depicted in the first sketch. It's plausible. The same cannot be said for the second sketch (IMO) because he looks nothing like the man in the video. The guy depicted in sketch #2 appears to be very young... he's maybe even a teenager but early 20's at most. The guy in the video is definitely older than that. I think that much is obvious. His clothing, the commanding tone of his voice, his posture, his gait... all of it speaks to someone older than a teenager or very young adult. It doesn't make any sense.
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I've known and seen men with baby faces that never seem to age. LE did say after the release of sketch 2 that he could look younger than he really is.
 
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