Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #124

[Spartygirl]

I think BG was intimately familiar with the trail, the bridge, the stream, and the surrounding wooded area. How?

I think he either

1. Was local or spent lots of time in the Delphi area and fooled around out there as a kid/adult.
2. Was local, or spent lots of time in the Delphi area, and a hunter
3. Was involved in trail clearing and/or maintenance

I'm not sure if the girls were lured there that day, it's possible. For me, to believe they were targeted means BG had to have foreknowledge of their arrival there that day, through word of mouth, overheard conversation, or electronic media. It also implies, for me, that there was a motive of some sort for the murder.

Now, if it is a case of a murderer plotting to kill a random victim, then for me it becomes a different scenario for sure. The issue I have with this is, why would BG choose to follow through with the two victim scenario, and the added risk that involves? Was it his intent to murder two, one not being sufficient? Or was it the thrill of the challenge? Had he been there so many times, and now tired of the wait, decided this opportunity was good enough?

My opinion remains there is some connection between BG and at least one of these girls.

BBM--
Agree !!!

 

[sunshineray]

Just a thought. Does anyone know if Abby or Libby were gaming online? Another way, IMO, that kids can make themselves vulnerable without realizing it. When you allow yourself to think about it, there's such a cesspool of miscreants online waiting or actively trying to find an opportunity to do harm to innocents.

 

[Charlot123]

I believe we were both saying the same thing about fear of heights, although it doesn't necessarily mean he works at one of the jobs that a person who didn't like high places wouldn't do. He doesn't look extremely athletic in the stills and video clip, which makes me think that he most likely had a gun and/or a partner. I mentioned it a couple years ago, and still wonder at times if he may not have had a partner who looked trustworthy to the girls. If so, they may have tried running toward that person for help and ended up becoming trapped. Most of the time I don't believe it happened though because I think there would have been some evidence for them to find if it did.
If you think my posts are a jumbled mess at times, you should see what's going on in my head when I think about this case (and a few others.)

If we use DC’s statements as the official sources to proceed from, our brains would become jumbled messes, with shacks and multiple-parsonality BGs in the midst! If not before the 2019 PC, then definitely, after.

I think when all is said and done (hopefully, it will), one needs to study the behavior of LE, the press, and all Youtubers, some boring money-grabbers, and others, certifiably nuts, to learn how NOT to handle the public.

 

[Charlot123]

I think BG was intimately familiar with the trail, the bridge, the stream, and the surrounding wooded area. How?

I think he either

1. Was local or spent lots of time in the Delphi area and fooled around out there as a kid/adult.
2. Was local, or spent lots of time in the Delphi area, and a hunter
3. Was involved in trail clearing and/or maintenance

I'm not sure if the girls were lured there that day, it's possible. For me, to believe they were targeted means BG had to have foreknowledge of their arrival there that day, through word of mouth, overheard conversation, or electronic media. It also implies, for me, that there was a motive of some sort for the murder.

Now, if it is a case of a murderer plotting to kill a random victim, then for me it becomes a different scenario for sure. The issue I have with this is, why would BG choose to follow through with the two victim scenario, and the added risk that involves? Was it his intent to murder two, one not being sufficient? Or was it the thrill of the challenge? Had he been there so many times, and now tired of the wait, decided this opportunity was good enough?

My opinion remains there is some connection between BG and at least one of these girls.

Either trail clearing, or bridge repairing, here is the reason to stay directly on the bridge.

 

[Charlot123]

Just a thought. Does anyone know if Abby or Libby were gaming online? Another way, IMO, that kids can make themselves vulnerable without realizing it. When you allow yourself to think about it, there's such a cesspool of miscreants online waiting or actively trying to find an opportunity to do harm to innocents.

Just a thought. Does anyone know if Abby or Libby were gaming online? Another way, IMO, that kids can make themselves vulnerable without realizing it. When you allow yourself to think about it, there's such a cesspool of miscreants online waiting or actively trying to find an opportunity to do harm to innocents.

Could be gaming. But gaming usually leaves traces.

No, I think all these apps, KIK, even Snapchat, where the info is not kept, were the source of contact.

KIK was made for - and switched over to, now - cryptocurrency transactions, this is why I suspect it. I suspect any app that allows money, or goods, or drugs, be traded without traces. Made for secrecy.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Either trail clearing, or bridge repairing, here is the reason to stay directly on the bridge.

I like speculation #3.
Does anyone know if Delphi personnel maintain the trail/bridge, or if county or state personnel do?

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JnRyan]

I think BG was intimately familiar with the trail, the bridge, the stream, and the surrounding wooded area. How?

I think he either

1. Was local or spent lots of time in the Delphi area and fooled around out there as a kid/adult.
2. Was local, or spent lots of time in the Delphi area, and a hunter
3. Was involved in trail clearing and/or maintenance

I'm not sure if the girls were lured there that day, it's possible. For me, to believe they were targeted means BG had to have foreknowledge of their arrival there that day, through word of mouth, overheard conversation, or electronic media. It also implies, for me, that there was a motive of some sort for the murder.

Now, if it is a case of a murderer plotting to kill a random victim, then for me it becomes a different scenario for sure. The issue I have with this is, why would BG choose to follow through with the two victim scenario, and the added risk that involves? Was it his intent to murder two, one not being sufficient? Or was it the thrill of the challenge? Had he been there so many times, and now tired of the wait, decided this opportunity was good enough?

My opinion remains there is some connection between BG and at least one of these girls.

I like #1 and #2. #3 is one I don't recall anyone bringing up before. Good theory. I don't lean toward it as at least one of his fellow workers, someone with a daughter themselves, might recognize him and call it in. Then again, that would be based on LE getting it right on at least one of the sketches.

 

[Justice101]

BTW, I'm still hung up on him being able to force 2 girls across a fairly wide creek like that in the winter.

30% of me thinks it is possible after the video that he doubled back across the bridge and waited for them to come back across the bridge and he abducted them on the NORTH END of the bridge.

Crossing the creek just seems very very odd and a terrific chance for at least one of the girls to escape (or to realize they were going to be raped or killed) - that is a HUGE ESCALATION. Libby was probably big enough to push or pull him down into the water.

 

[Jax49]

Snipped from post #1.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

 

[Falling Down]

What if the girls had seen him on the trail somewhere and they recognized him on the bridge as the same man (because of his stature/gait/something?), BUT suddenly his clothing had changed from ie. sportily dressed (?) to an "average farmer". THAT and following the girls would have been a serious reason to distrust him. Brainstorming ....

I think this may have happened. He had plenty of time to change his appearance before he went down the trail to the bridge to see what A&L were up to.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I think BG must be an expert Serial Killer who picks his time to strike with immaculate planning like Israel Keyes. He would have gotten away with this crime 100% without the audio and the video and it looks like he has still gotten away with it anyway?

All good points.

Timing was everything that day, and he'd timed it all beforehand.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

This case is has brought out the passion in us - we all want to help in whatever way we can. I so appreciate everyone on this thread, and everyone's contributions whether I agree with them completely or not. You expand my thinking and make me rethink my theories.

Someday....we will all rejoice when the arrest comes. I believe it will be soon. (Praying!)
Peace to all.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[MistyWaters]

I am on the fence regarding: murders vs child abduction. They were found too close to the bridge, and according to official version, it took a very short time. Likely, murders.

If we assume these are regular murders, all your statistic is not applicable.

Furthermore, you cite a study from 2006. With retroactive data.

Shortly before 2006: Tor browser and first version of Blackberry appeared.

2006 -
Before Google browser, before camera cellphones, before Facebook. And definitely before Kik app.

Modern world. Britain alone. 2018 study. Kik responsible for 1100 cases of child exploitation for the last 5 years.

A lot has changed since 2006.

You once posted that child murder cases could be resolved when there was a proven connection between the murderer and the victim. How does the study from 2006 reflect today’s world, when Kik might be the only connection between the murderer and the victim?

2006 might have good data in general, but sorry, it might also be halfway obsolete, what with the technology developing so rapidly.

An abduction had to have occurred because I can’t think of any possible scenario that fits Libby and Abby asking the suspect on the bridge to accompany them across the river to go somewhere.

Even if the killer enticed them “down the hill” under false pretences, that’s considered luring and still falls under the definition of an abduction. I’m not able to find the exact quote but early on LE stated Libby took the video of the suspect was just before a criminal act occurred. Given the audio, I think it’d be reasonable to conclude LE considers what followed was an abduction. By definition, an abduction is when the perpetrator instructs or takes a victim to a secondary location apart from where contact was first made.

In this case, an abduction does not mean the victims were taken away to somewhere else and later brought back to where they were found. They were likely abducted at the end of the bridge and whether they crossed the river under duress or attempted to flee from the abductor, an abduction still occurred, resulting in their murder. That is 1st degree murder x 2 virtually everywhere, regardless if premeditation was involved.

ETA - If the killer murdered Libby and Abby at the end of the bridge - thus no abduction occurred - and then dragged their bodies to the location where they were found, let him argue that as a defense because the difference could be a 1st or 2nd degree murder conviction. I really doubt he’d be successful.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

BTW, I'm still hung up on him being able to force 2 girls across a fairly wide creek like that in the winter.

30% of me thinks it is possible after the video that he doubled back across the bridge and waited for them to come back across the bridge and he abducted them on the NORTH END of the bridge

Crossing the creek just seems very very odd and a terrific chance for at least one of the girls to escape (or to realize they were going to be raped or killed) - that is a HUGE ESCALATION. Libby was probably big enough to push or pull him down into the water.

Remember when Det. Holman said the crime did not happen like any of us online sleuthers think? Does anyone have that clip?

 

[MistyWaters]

Remember when Det. Holman said the crime did not happen like any of us online sleuthers think? Does anyone have that clip?

That’s not quite what he said. He was specifically criticizing Youtube re-enactments, some of which apparently were made using actors. Sorry, I don’t have a link at hand but the quote has been discussed here many times in the past. He did criticize SM for side-by-sides which then resulted in unproductive tips

Would’ve LE followed every single online theory or youtube video to know absolutely nobody got it right, a sort of guessing game? (A loud buzzer and red X comes to mind). I think that’s not likely given speculative scenarios have encompassed virtually every vague possibility known to mankind.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Remember when Det. Holman said the crime did not happen like any of us online sleuthers think? Does anyone have that clip?

With all due respect to Det. Holman, the end result is two dead girls. I"ll be happy to say how wrong our speculations were when he *arrests* someone. I'd prefer he focus less on our speculations and more on bringing in the Perp.

Sorry, that sounded crabby. I support the thin blue line, but I think many of them take us amateur sleuths too lightly. Sure, we come up with some wacko ideas now and again, but there is thread after thread of where folks on this forum materially contributed to resolutions.

O.K., my crabby rant is over. Back to positivity. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I think that IF he is as local as LE seems to believe right now, he has almost certainly been back. I doubt the trails are traveled well enough that anyone has observed this necessarily, but I think that if he's the type of killer I think he is, the lure of re-living the experience would call to him very strongly.

Edit to add: we don't know if he took something away from the scene. But I think he probably did. I'm sure the search warrants from the early days of the investigation, which I assume are now sealed, would reveal something about this because I think LE suspected this early on.

Quoted bbm

The issue with him returning is that the trails now have cameras and it would be risky for him to do so, knowing that LE has a close eye out for him there.

Or maybe he has an imaginary collossal set of parts that make him feel he can stroll around there and nobody is any wiser.

I believe that he is getting off on the You Tubers re-enactments and with the photos and videos that people post online of the trails and bridge.

My belief is this guy feels important because he pulled off an abduction and double murder in broad daylight...and he loves all the attention this case has gotten. He probably loves the sound of his own voice and loves seeing himself walk towards those brave girls knowing what he was about to do.

He likely fails to recognize that his cockiness will do him in. Especially if he was arrogant, greedy and compulsive and did take something away from the scene and kept it. I hope to hell he did! It'll be another nail in his coffin.

There is no way this guy was able to erase completely all traces of Abby and Libby from himself that day. He made mistakes.

All JMO

 

[Brubon]

Quoted bbm

The issue with him returning is that the trails now have cameras and it would be risky for him to do so, knowing that LE has a close eye out for him there.

Or maybe he has an imaginary collossal set of parts that make him feel he can stroll around there and nobody is any wiser.

I believe that he is getting off on the You Tubers re-enactments and with the photos and videos that people post online of the trails and bridge.

My belief is this guy feels important because he pulled off an abduction and double murder in broad daylight...and he loves all the attention this case has gotten. He probably loves the sound of his own voice and loves seeing himself walk towards those brave girls knowing what he was about to do.

He likely fails to recognize that his cockiness will do him in. Especially if he was arrogant, greedy and compulsive and did take something away from the scene and kept it. I hope to hell he did! It'll be another nail in his coffin.

There is no way this guy was able to erase completely all traces of Abby and Libby from himself that day. He made mistakes.

All JMO

ITA
Preach, sister!!!!!
IMO

 

[somequestions]

With all due respect to Det. Holman, the end result is two dead girls. I"ll be happy to say how wrong our speculations were when he *arrests* someone. I'd prefer he focus less on our speculations and more on bringing in the Perp.

Sorry, that sounded crabby. I support the thin blue line, but I think many of them take us amateur sleuths too lightly. Sure, we come up with some wacko ideas now and again, but there is thread after thread of where folks on this forum materially contributed to resolutions.

O.K., my crabby rant is over. Back to positivity. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

In an HLN video after the April 2019 press conference a panel of experts discussed the case. Looking at it now, it is interesting. At the end they were each asked what they thought would happen. At the time, each of them said they thought an arrest would follow within the next few weeks. Only one of them cautioned that if an arrest did not follow in the next few weeks, then the press conference was probably just a Hail Mary pass and they have nothing.

 

[Charlot123]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

I don’t know who BG is, but I feel there is a connection between him and the girls.

I also think that he, too, was driven by fear and anger when he killed the girls. Probably one of them, or both, were threatening his life that he carved out for himself - hence, the anger.

But I think he regrets killing both, regrets not planning better.

I think he’d still kill one. The perceived threat. He is paranoid and can’t trust people.

But I think he regrets because now his life is - waiting for the other shoe to drop and pretending that everything is fine.