Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[cujenn81]

The content in the final episode of DTH is nothing more than a discussion of theories – which isn’t relevant here.

The notes I’ve taken from both podcasts – Down the Hill & Scene of the Crime – are lengthy. So, I’ve compiled a list of links to all of the posts in one place. I’ve also included a link to each podcast episode.

SCENE OF THE CRIME: DELPHI
NOTES >>> EPISODES 1 – 6

SCENE OF THE CRIME: DELPHI
NOTES >>> EPISODE 7

LINKS TO LISTEN >>>
Episode 1 – Abby & Libby
Episode 2 – Missing
Episode 3 – Unthinkable
Episode 4 – Evidence
Episode 5 – Suspects
Episode 6 – A New Direction
Episode 7 – Resolve


DOWN THE HILL – THE DELPHI MURDERS
NOTES >>> EPISODES 1 – 8

LINKS TO LISTEN >>>
Episode 1 – A Walk on the Bridge
Episode 2 – The Day Delphi Changed
Episode 3 – A Picture & A Search Warrant
Episode 4 – Three Words
Episode 5 – Signatures
Episode 6 – A Walk in the Woods
Episode 7 – Madness
Episode 8 – A New Direction

 

[somequestions]

It means "know' as in you live with, work with, are friends with, or associate with the person. You know them personally in such a way that you can recognize their features in an imperfect rendering. Not "know" as in "being sure you are right." IMO

I think you are correct. Plus, when I did submit my tip to LE it was before the first sketch even came out because it was not based on the sketches. It was based off the video.

 

[JDough]

The content in the final episode of DTH is nothing more than a discussion of theories – which isn’t relevant here.

The notes I’ve taken from both podcasts – Down the Hill & Scene of the Crime – are lengthy. So, I’ve compiled a list of links to all of the posts in one place. I’ve also included a link to each podcast episode.

SCENE OF THE CRIME: DELPHI
NOTES >>> EPISODES 1 – 6

SCENE OF THE CRIME: DELPHI
NOTES >>> EPISODE 7

LINKS TO LISTEN >>>
Episode 1 – Abby & Libby
Episode 2 – Missing
Episode 3 – Unthinkable
Episode 4 – Evidence
Episode 5 – Suspects
Episode 6 – A New Direction
Episode 7 – Resolve


DOWN THE HILL – THE DELPHI MURDERS
NOTES >>> EPISODES 1 – 8

LINKS TO LISTEN >>>
Episode 1 – A Walk on the Bridge
Episode 2 – The Day Delphi Changed
Episode 3 – A Picture & A Search Warrant
Episode 4 – Three Words
Episode 5 – Signatures
Episode 6 – A Walk in the Woods
Episode 7 – Madness
Episode 8 – A New Direction

You are simply amazing (and very appreciated)!

 

[SMK777]

Yes, trail maintenance has been a long standing theory for me, but maybe too obvious? One would hope those folks were scrutinized early on...

amateur opinion and speculation

True.

 

[Cryptic]

It means "know' as in you live with, work with, are friends with, or associate with the person. You know them personally in such a way that you can recognize their features in an imperfect rendering. Not "know" as in "being sure you are right." IMO

Very well said. To avoid confusion, perhaps the police could use the term "recognize" instead of "know".

In the end, "know" implies that one possesses a higher degree of personal knowledge about somebody. As you stated, this does not appear to be a pre-requisite for calling in a tip.

At the end of the day, many people can "recognize" far more people than they "know". One does not need to know personal details about the suspect to be able to give the tip that leads to an arrest(s).

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, trail maintenance has been a long standing theory for me, but maybe too obvious? One would hope those folks were scrutinized early on...

amateur opinion and speculation

No, not obvious, not at all, and I would like to discuss it

 

[SMK777]

No, not obvious, not at all, and I would like to discuss it

Would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[MistyWaters]

No, not obvious, not at all, and I would like to discuss it

How do we know employees were responsible for trail maintenance, in order to discuss something that might not be? As is common in many smaller communities, volunteers gather together on a specific day and do the work. It was also volunteers who built the High Bridge Trail.

Canal Park in Delphi needs cleanup help
“If you appreciate and use these facilities that are there for the public to enjoy, come out to our Trail and Park cleanup day on Saturday, April 22, to help make them even better for broader enjoyment,” said......”

ETA - Volunteers involved in building the High Bridge trail
June, 2015
Work continues on Monon High Bridge Trail | Carroll County Comet

 

[JnRyan]

How do we know employees were responsible for trail maintenance, in order to discuss something that might not be? As is common in many smaller communities, volunteers gather together on a specific day and do the work. It was also volunteers who built the High Bridge Trail.

Canal Park in Delphi needs cleanup help
“If you appreciate and use these facilities that are there for the public to enjoy, come out to our Trail and Park cleanup day on Saturday, April 22, to help make them even better for broader enjoyment,” said......”

ETA - Volunteers involved in building the High Bridge trail
June, 2015
Work continues on Monon High Bridge Trail | Carroll County Comet

So it sounds like volunteers and not employees. That would make it less likely that there would be a list. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing this killer doing this volunteer work. (But, of course, one doesn't really know what goes on inside the mind of some persons. Maybe this killer has a great fondness for trails and hiking.) I would imagine LE did contact the organizers/leaders of such work efforts have been contacted as well as frequent participants in these efforts. Sketches shown and persons asked about maybe someone who might have matched. Who knows some of the tips may have come from some of these volunteers.

 

[Cryptic]

No, not obvious, not at all, and I would like to discuss it

As a possibility, I think it has a lot going for it.

City or County parks and recreation maintenance workers would have near total knowledge of the nature center trails etc. As most of these employees are out door oriented, they would probably notice creek depth through out the year, and also have knowledge of unofficial short cuts across private land.

Outdoor employment could also make them more likely to have broader knowledge of the area in regards being able to quickly orientate themselves to the road network while cutting across farm fields.

Then consider softer factors:

A certain number of these men, particularly the foremen, could have a natural air of authority and be know the "command voice" for getting quick compliance from teen agers. In the case of hesitation, they would also be able to quickly supplement the command with believable information as to why say, the bridge is unsafe and closed for maintenance etc.

And now the detractors....

There are very few of these employees. In small towns and rural areas, the jobs are highly sought after (I tried to get one once and was told that A. you need to wait for a funeral. B. You need to know someone).

The desirability of the jobs means that there is little turn over and thus a greater chance of being recognized in a small town. They are also given background checks. Though one does not need to have a criminal record to commit a monsterous crime, back ground checks do eliminate RSOs etc.

In short, I think a city / county maintenance worker would have been recognized pretty quickly. Likewise, as Roses of Angels stated, the police have probably looked very closely at them early to eliminate them as suspects, but also as a source of information regarding habitual visitors, visitors known for legal- but creepy behavior, the presence of transients etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

So it sounds like volunteers and not employees. That would make it less likely that there would be a list. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing this killer doing this volunteer work. (But, of course, one doesn't really know what goes on inside the mind of some persons. Maybe this killer has a great fondness for trails and hiking.) I would imagine LE did contact the organizers/leaders of such work efforts have been contacted as well as frequent participants in these efforts. Sketches shown and persons asked about maybe someone who might have matched. Who knows some of the tips may have come from some of these volunteers.

One things for sure, the witnesses involved in the sketches were either local and so they didn’t recognize the man they sighted because he was a stranger to them, or the witnesses were outsiders wouldn’t have recognized anybody. If they had recognized the person in either of the sketches LE wouldn’t be asking who is this.

Because so little is known, we can only venture off into far off guessing games. But from time by time I pull myself back - LE isn’t asking us to speculate over various scenarios - they ask for only a good tip to lead to the identity of the killer. I also remind myself that Abby and Libby are not characters in a murder mystery and there will be no who-dun-it winners. Two young vibrant teens lost their lives in a senseless killing and there’s a void within their respective loving families which will never be filled or forgotten.

As more time passes, I think the quality of tips LE is looking for must have substantially increased in quality well beyond a similarity to the video/photo/audio/sketch. For example the interview strategy by LE can no longer be “so where were you the afternoon of Feb 13, 2017?”. More than 3 years later, it’d probably be more suspicious if somebody actually remembered.

But most importantly, I’d like to still believe somebody knows critical information and still will come forward to do the right thing.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Or being somehow part of the trail maintenance system as has been suggested by @rosesfromangels in the past? Because the fact of at least 10 people being in the vicinity in broad daylight on a mild day is just so out of joint with murder, unless it is in fact a “hiding in plain sight scenario”. This fact probably is the key of keys.

Yes, trail maintenance has been a long standing theory for me, but maybe too obvious? One would hope those folks were scrutinized early on...

amateur opinion and speculation

So it sounds like volunteers and not employees. That would make it less likely that there would be a list. Somehow, I have a hard time seeing this killer doing this volunteer work. (But, of course, one doesn't really know what goes on inside the mind of some persons. Maybe this killer has a great fondness for trails and hiking.) I would imagine LE did contact the organizers/leaders of such work efforts have been contacted as well as frequent participants in these efforts. Sketches shown and persons asked about maybe someone who might have matched. Who knows some of the tips may have come from some of these volunteers.

It sounds as if there has been a significant amount of funds ~$1.5M to date earmarked to restore the bridge/trail. I have very mixed feelings about this. On one hand, it's a way to defy the evil that transpired there. On the other hand, it could become a ghoulish tourist attraction of sorts. I don't know....

$260K renovation underway to turn Delphi's Monon High Bridge into pedestrian trail

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm a bit confused now, so hopefully someone can set me straight here.
Is sounds like the land where the bridge stood had several different "parcel" owners? A private land owner, CSX Railway owned something (the tracks and the land it was erected on?) and the State owned another part? I'm really confused on this. To further confuse, volunteers were clearing land owned by a private citizen and the CSX railway?

Someone help me out here. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[carbuff]

I'm a bit confused now, so hopefully someone can set me straight here.
Is sounds like the land where the bridge stood had several different "parcel" owners? A private land owner, CSX Railway owned something (the tracks and the land it was erected on?) and the State owned another part? I'm really confused on this. To further confuse, volunteers were clearing land owned by a private citizen and the CSX railway?

Someone help me out here. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

There's a park area near us that's like that. Parts of it are in three different municipalities; the bulk of it is an old farm that was donated to a land trust; additional sections belong to a railroad, a now-defunct electrical utility, and the district sewer commission. A local conservation organization eventually persuaded everybody to allow them to manage the properties as a single unit, but I think if that agreement ever falls apart, it'll probably become condominiums or something.

 

[MistyWaters]

I'm a bit confused now, so hopefully someone can set me straight here.
Is sounds like the land where the bridge stood had several different "parcel" owners? A private land owner, CSX Railway owned something (the tracks and the land it was erected on?) and the State owned another part? I'm really confused on this. To further confuse, volunteers were clearing land owned by a private citizen and the CSX railway?

Someone help me out here. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

The bridge was not officially part of the High Bridge trail at the time of the murders although it was planned for CSX to donate it. They did shortly thereafter and after that the bridge was closed for safety improvements.

My earlier link mentioned the land for the trail portion had already been donated by a private landowner iirc.

Apr, 2017
Fences going up at bridge near Delphi girls' slayings
“CSX has agreed to donate the bridge, along with about a half-mile of land approaching the bridge from the north, provided soil testing doesn’t turn up environmental contamination at the site.”

 

[TheVisual]

I looked for the interview where Jerry Holmen(sp?) talks with Alexis McAdams. It originally was 20+ minutes long and Holmen spoke of them probably going across the creek. Where he spoke about this was after the 20 minute mark. All I found was Holmen with McAdams on a 2+ clip that I am pretty sure was the interview I am talking about. They have cut it all out.

I was looking around tonight and found Holeman's video about the creek. It was on Gray Hughes' channel on Youtube. " Why I make debunking videos ".

 

[Awsi Dooger]

How do we know employees were responsible for trail maintenance, in order to discuss something that might not be? As is common in many smaller communities, volunteers gather together on a specific day and do the work. It was also volunteers who built the High Bridge Trail.

It has to be volunteer maintenance. This is not a big production. It is not a park. It is an empty trail system.

As always I want to be the absolute under on this. I don't mind being totally alone down there. In fact, this case would be phenomenal for "Action Points" under. That's wagering where the margin dictates the payoff. For example, wagering under 10 people at the bridge area in a given time frame would pay off higher at 5 or 6 than at 9, compared to standard wagering where the payoff is the same regardless of how far away from the established over/under number. The reward is greater the more you are correct, like 5 paying higher than 6. Of course, the penalty is more harsh the other way, if the result turned out to be 15 and not 11.

I would be shaking in anticipation all night if I could wager "Action Points" under on a Harvey Carroll number.

 

[Ozoner]

One things for sure, the witnesses involved in the sketches were either local and so they didn’t recognize the man they sighted because he was a stranger to them, or the witnesses were outsiders wouldn’t have recognized anybody. If they had recognized the person in either of the sketches LE wouldn’t be asking who is this.

Because so little is known, we can only venture off into far off guessing games. But from time by time I pull myself back - LE isn’t asking us to speculate over various scenarios - they ask for only a good tip to lead to the identity of the killer. I also remind myself that Abby and Libby are not characters in a murder mystery and there will be no who-dun-it winners. Two young vibrant teens lost their lives in a senseless killing and there’s a void within their respective loving families which will never be filled or forgotten.

As more time passes, I think the quality of tips LE is looking for must have substantially increased in quality well beyond a similarity to the video/photo/audio/sketch. For example the interview strategy by LE can no longer be “so where were you the afternoon of Feb 13, 2017?”. More than 3 years later, it’d probably be more suspicious if somebody actually remembered.

But most importantly, I’d like to still believe somebody knows critical information and still will come forward to do the right thing.

JMO

BBM
They have never been looking for tips regarding only "a similarity to the video/photo/audio/sketch." Those sorts of tips just waste their time. A similarity to the sketches, sure, as long as there's something more (the person missed work on the day of the crimes or the day after, the person talked about wanting to kill teen girls, etc). The video and audio are being played for the benefit of someone who might know BG and recognize him absolutely. Tens of thousands of men in the Midwest bear a resemblance to the blurry image of BG in the video.

 

[Justice101]

still following.... fingers cross for an arrest before the end of the year.

 

[Trebor5591]

s always I want to be the absolute under on this. I don't mind being totally alone down there. In fact, this case would be phenomenal for "Action Points" under. That's wagering where the margin dictates the payoff. For example, wagering under 10 people at the bridge area in a given time frame would pay off higher at 5 or 6 than at 9, compared to standard wagering where the payoff is the same regardless of how far away from the established over/under number. The reward is greater the more you are correct, like 5 paying higher than 6. Of course, the penalty is more harsh the other way, if the result turned out to be 15 and not 11.

I've read this several times, and I don't have a clue what the poster is trying to say.