Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #125

[rosesfromangels]

I think the killer was at the higher end, but whoever he left to create the CS was younger.

Interesting speculation...
It isn't out of the question that this is a duo, although to the best of my knowledge, LE has never suggested that.....but perhaps inferred that (?) with the two sketches? I can't let go of the speculation that the Perp is tied to one of the properties adjacent to the crime scene; in one manner or another.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Question, iirc, there’s reference somewhere that says they think BG was still in the area when they were first searching (sorry need quote).

This has puzzled me a bit because I tend to imagine that he had an exit route planned and high-tailed it out of there immediately after the murders.

Thoughts?

I just don’t see him sticking around.

Although I respect other’s thoughts that the killer might have been milling around in the aftermath getting some extra thrills from it, I have pretty much always thought he left the area as quickly as he could. If he had a car he was probably miles down or up the Hoosier Heartland Hwy before the sun went down.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Interesting speculation...
It isn't out of the question that this is a duo, although to the best of my knowledge, LE has never suggested that.....but perhaps inferred that (?) with the two sketches? I can't let go of the speculation that the Perp is tied to one of the properties adjacent to the crime scene; in one manner or another.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree that housing proximity would explain this unsolved horror. (How did he know the area so well?)
One speculation I have is that the police have investigated the wrong family member. Cleared him. But these things, child abuse, pedophilia, arrests for rape, sadly often run in families. Perhaps it is a male relative of who they cleared. Moo.

 

[Rural_PC]

You’re mirroring my exact thoughts when I read about the quick arrest in the Whitby case. The release of the photo and audio in this Delphi case should’ve also been enough to ID the killer. If LE made mistakes, IMO one resembled NIMBY by them not strongly emphasizing the high likelihood of the killer’s connection to the Delphi community, recent past or present. This shouldn’t have become a big ‘ah ah moment’ more than 2 years later. JMO

Along those lines, and combines with other aspects of this crime, I have always thought that a disguise was involved. It would explain some of the unknowns.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

And yet here, with only a grainy video, the perp is arrested within 24 hours.

Canada -Woman, 50, found critically injured & assaulted, Whitby,Ont, 29 July 2020

To be fair, though his face is blurry, the attacker in the Canadian case is dressed rather distinctly and he’s walking down what appears to be a pretty busy road. The Delphi killer, we pretty much all agree is “dressed like every other male in Indiana” and was on an isolated trail(though others were in the vicinity) in a very small town.
Very very happy someone came forward to identify this guy. I’m hoping someone will do the same for Abby and Libby.

 

[Charlot123]

You’re mirroring my exact thoughts when I read about the quick arrest in the Whitby case. The release of the photo and audio in this Delphi case should’ve also been enough to ID the killer. If LE made mistakes, IMO one resembled NIMBY by them not strongly emphasizing the high likelihood of the killer’s connection to the Delphi community, recent past or present. This shouldn’t have become a big ‘ah ah moment’ more than 2 years later. JMO

If LE made such big mistake as NOT releasing the video and the audio immediately after killings, then now it is probably in their best interest to not even remind people about it. This is the case that could make or break anyone's career.

 

[margarita25]

For the record, and respectfully to all, I don’t think there are two perps, jmo, MOO. I have strongly rejected this theory from the start and still do. Again, it’s all just our opinions, right, but based on the evidence that we DO have, I see absolutely zero indication of this.

 

[oviedo]

I"m so impressed with the 125 threads you all have posted for these two young ladies. I hope it will be solved eventually. Like many of you, I think he left the area soon after.
JMO

 

[Gracie55]

This is something odd. Probably coincidence. The first Location is From a mineral map. Apparently the mineral alum is at there. This is the website. https://www.mindat.org/loc-214247 and coordinates
40°35′20.7″N 86°38′34.2″W / 40.589083°N 86.642833°W / 40.589083; -86.642833

Murder site:
40° 33' 34'' North , 86° 41' 39'' West
Latitude & Longitude (decimal): 40.55960,-86.6943
How far off would these spots be? Is there a possible connection to say the deal with CSX? I know soil contamination might derail the deal. Would a mineral being there impact something?
It just seems odd, but maybe the locations are miles apart. Thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[JnRyan]

For the record, and respectfully to all, I don’t think there are two perps, jmo, MOO. I have strongly rejected this theory from the start and still do. Again, it’s all just our opinions, right, but based on the evidence that we DO have, I see absolutely zero indication of this.

I agree that it is very likely only one person is involved. That is why I get somewhat confused when the sheriff makes a statement that they haven't ruled out two killers. The interview was posted in a local newspaper that can't read online unless you have a subscription. A copy of the article was posted a thread or two back.

 

[MistyWaters]

If LE made such big mistake as NOT releasing the video and the audio immediately after killings, then now it is probably in their best interest to not even remind people about it. This is the case that could make or break anyone's career.

That wasn’t the mistake I was referring to. Early on the insinuation was that the killer might’ve been just passing through - walking or hitch-hiking on the highway, ie the FBI billboards throughout the USA - instead of putting the emphasis on the killer having strong local ties. Usually the emphasis is first attempting to identify a local suspect and only when that proves futile, the scope moves outward. The focus in this case was backward for the first 2+ years IMO although we don’t know why that was.

“Proximity of suspect: At the same April 2019 press conference, Doug Carter, superintendent of the Indiana State Police, said new information leads investigators to believe that the killer is from Delphi, and they believe he either still lives or works in Delphi, or frequently visits the area.”
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree that it is very likely only one person is involved. That is why I get somewhat confused when the sheriff makes a statement that they haven't ruled out two killers. The interview was posted in a local newspaper that can't read online unless you have a subscription. A copy of the article was posted a thread or two back.

I agree. I notice whenever a possible scenario is put to LE they never emphatically deny any possibilities, for example even offering up the possibility the suspect may look like a combination of both sketches, which is really saying he’s believed to be caucasian, appears to be between the ages of 18 and 50 and has two eyes, a nose and a mouth.

IMO The reason they rule nothing out is because they don’t know the identity of the suspect, definitely not two of them and so they’re keeping all options open.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I agree that housing proximity would explain this unsolved horror. (How did he know the area so well?)
One speculation I have is that the police have investigated the wrong family member. Cleared him. But these things, child abuse, pedophilia, arrests for rape, sadly often run in families. Perhaps it is a male relative of who they cleared. Moo.

Just like the Perp in the Sierra Lamar case. His father is a jailed Perp as well. Both lifers. Your point is a strong one.

I think they interviewed the Perp already.
They need to create a scorecard and go back through those interviews again. He is likely there.

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[JnRyan]

I agree. I notice whenever a possible scenario is put to LE they never emphatically deny any possibilities, for example even offering up the possibility the suspect may look like a combination of both sketches, which is really saying he’s believed to be caucasian, appears to be between the ages of 18 and 50 and has two eyes, a nose and a mouth.

IMO The reason they rule nothing out is because they don’t know the identity of the suspect, definitely not two of them and so they’re keeping all options open.

Yes, indeed. LE would appear to have ruled out any earthling minorities as well as aliens. Assuming, of course, that aliens from other parts of the universe don't look like us.

 

[MistyWaters]

Along those lines, and combines with other aspects of this crime, I have always thought that a disguise was involved. It would explain some of the unknowns.

Other than the fact LE have stated the sketches are of two different men, I can’t see an advantage for the killer to wear a disguise only either before or after the murders. Because if he was identified while not wearing a disguise, either before or after, how would that prevent him from being arrested? Wouldn’t someone wearing a disguise want to consistently wear it both before and after the murders to eliminate the possibly of being identified, regardless of who saw him or when?

Another thing - while LE released each of the sketches at different times with a certain amount confidence it resembled the killer, we also know there were no eye witnesses to the actual murders so I don’t think it can be known with 100% certainty the killer was sighted by anyone.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

To be fair, though his face is blurry, the attacker in the Canadian case is dressed rather distinctly and he’s walking down what appears to be a pretty busy road. The Delphi killer, we pretty much all agree is “dressed like every other male in Indiana” and was on an isolated trail(though others were in the vicinity) in a very small town.
Very very happy someone came forward to identify this guy. I’m hoping someone will do the same for Abby and Libby.

One thought ran through my mind regarding the video of the Whitby attacker, I wonder how many people would’ve correctly guessed the alleged perp to be only 21 years old (other than who identified him of course).

 

[sleuth782]

There has been some discussion about how much planning went into this. Let us take a look at the potential risks incurred by BG of being spotted during the crime and what steps may have been taken to mitigate them.

1. Spotted by someone heading north to south along the bridge trail. Mitigation essentially boils down to checking over his shoulder as he gets to the dead-end of the trail just before he commits the acts. (Less likely, imo, is a spotter or trail cam along the trail, north of the bridge.)
2. Spotted by someone along the south end of the bridge (property owner, or someone taking private driveway to one of the houses). Potential mitigation is pre-scouting each home some time prior making sure no one was home. Is it possible to see someone depart the private drive from the north end of the bridge? Additional mitigation (and less likely) are having a lookout along the private drive to the south (to make sure no one is coming home) or some kind of trail cam. Perhaps there is some line of sight from the bridge to part of the private drive to know if a car is in the immediate vicinity? Additionally, if BG knew the whereabouts of property owners near the south end, this could mitigate his risk.
3. Ron Logan property. I'm not sure if there exists a clear line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. However, if the perp knew he was not home, that would be one more source of risk reduced.
4. The existence of security cameras at any home near the trail or along the trail. Could have walked in/around the trails before to ensure no security cameras, or at least his particular path contained none.
5. Kayakers or fisherman on the river. Not a high risk in February, but one potential risk.

I think the crime scene being near, but not so visible, to the bridge or other properties indicates the perp intentionally wanted to reduce the chance of being seen, and able to complete the crime quickly.

IMO, the commonly believed path BG took is suggestive that he knew the general layout of the trails reasonably well and understood the lines of sight involved. I think he looked over his shoulder as he arrived to the south end of the bridge. I think he knew no one was home at the south end...perhaps walked by there earlier in the day. (Related to new BG sketch?) I think he accepted the slight risk that someone would arrive to one of the south end properties during the narrow time window (only a few minutes probably) between DTH and the crime scene. He may have believed there was no line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. IMO, BG did some planning to reduce the biggest sources of risk and did some kind of walk through of the area to understand.

However, I don't think this requires any "mastermind" level thinking. It boils down to "end of bridge is isolated and dead-end" and considering "who could see me in this area?"

One last outside of the box thought...a drone could be helpful for scouting the area days before the crime and potentially as a lookout on the day of the crime. Not saying one was used (or even likely), but just one more possibility.

 

[Ozoner]

You are raising some excellent points.
I tend to believe the Perp is at the higher end of the age range because he apparently wasn't clued in to the cellphone.

Amateur opinion and speculation

He knew enough not to take it with him. Had he taken it, the phone would have led LE right to him.

 

[rosesfromangels]

He knew enough not to take it with him. Had he taken it, the phone would have led LE right to him.

Good point.
IDK - maybe clever Libby tossed/dropped it intentionally when she knew the situation was dire. Hard to say.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

There has been some discussion about how much planning went into this. Let us take a look at the potential risks incurred by BG of being spotted during the crime and what steps may have been taken to mitigate them.

1. Spotted by someone heading north to south along the bridge trail. Mitigation essentially boils down to checking over his shoulder as he gets to the dead-end of the trail just before he commits the acts. (Less likely, imo, is a spotter or trail cam along the trail, north of the bridge.)
2. Spotted by someone along the south end of the bridge (property owner, or someone taking private driveway to one of the houses). Potential mitigation is pre-scouting each home some time prior making sure no one was home. Is it possible to see someone depart the private drive from the north end of the bridge? Additional mitigation (and less likely) are having a lookout along the private drive to the south (to make sure no one is coming home) or some kind of trail cam. Perhaps there is some line of sight from the bridge to part of the private drive to know if a car is in the immediate vicinity? Additionally, if BG knew the whereabouts of property owners near the south end, this could mitigate his risk.
3. Ron Logan property. I'm not sure if there exists a clear line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. However, if the perp knew he was not home, that would be one more source of risk reduced.
4. The existence of security cameras at any home near the trail or along the trail. Could have walked in/around the trails before to ensure no security cameras, or at least his particular path contained none.
5. Kayakers or fisherman on the river. Not a high risk in February, but one potential risk.

I think the crime scene being near, but not so visible, to the bridge or other properties indicates the perp intentionally wanted to reduce the chance of being seen, and able to complete the crime quickly.

IMO, the commonly believed path BG took is suggestive that he knew the general layout of the trails reasonably well and understood the lines of sight involved. I think he looked over his shoulder as he arrived to the south end of the bridge. I think he knew no one was home at the south end...perhaps walked by there earlier in the day. (Related to new BG sketch?) I think he accepted the slight risk that someone would arrive to one of the south end properties during the narrow time window (only a few minutes probably) between DTH and the crime scene. He may have believed there was no line of sight from RL's house to the crime scene. IMO, BG did some planning to reduce the biggest sources of risk and did some kind of walk through of the area to understand.

However, I don't think this requires any "mastermind" level thinking. It boils down to "end of bridge is isolated and dead-end" and considering "who could see me in this area?"

One last outside of the box thought...a drone could be helpful for scouting the area days before the crime and potentially as a lookout on the day of the crime. Not saying one was used (or even likely), but just one more possibility.

Great post. I agree he is no mastermind with his *advertiser censored* erectus level of frontal lobe development. He would be more focused on hunting and avoiding being hunted. More base instincts; a troglodyte. I am unshakable in my belief that he 100% knew RL"s schedule that day, and that is the link that will solve this case.

Amateur opinion and speculation