Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #126

[Spartygirl]

Well now, that certainly complicates things. Nice catch!


I'm not saying this is the case, but LE often does not tell the truth in press conferences. I don't think they have anything, not even an accurate description, They have the perp on video yet has two sketches, neither of which look like another, and probably the entire murder on audio, and are no closer than you or I.

UGH !
Yes, the frustration is very real and most of us have been following along since the beginning, over 3.5 years
Perp on video

Voice on Video

2 different sketches of perp- both look entirely different

Possibly the murder or some of it caught on video ( I know what LE has said, but I tend to think some of it if not all is recorded, JMO)

Multiple witnesses-yet nobody knows who he is ? Or they don't want to say for possible reasons. JMO

Extremely frustrating and must also be as frustrating to the girls' families.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have read opinion posts where some people think the usage of "guys" is similar to how a school teacher would address a couple of students. It was theorized that the "guys" part is said in a way that would perk up and get attention, and then "down the hill" was said in a way that would be a direct instruction. Even more interesting to me that the two people being addressed are both female, yet "guys" is being used. Personally, this makes me think the perp is used to addressing batches of mixed gender combinations and calling them "guys" in general. School teachers would also be off of work on this particular day (right?)

As for the distinction between "guys" and "down the hill" I have read a review where it is argued that the warped or blurred sounds between "guys" and "down the hill" is detrimental to the true voice of the man. The argument claims that the intentional distortion between the two sets of words could possibly change how the man sounds in both sets of words.

John Douglas, ex-FBI profiler and the "Mindhunter" agrees with you.
Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders

"Guys says to me that maybe he may know these victims," said Douglas. "Or it's a person ... someone who has interaction with children." He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history." "You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[girlfriday]

I found this early article worth a re-read: Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe | Fox 59

Specifically these comments from then-prosecutor Ives:

Investigators are anxiously awaiting full DNA test results being compiled by FBI forensic analysts.

“I go back before DNA and cell phones,” said Ives who remembered prosecuting criminal cases in Carroll County with less evidence than in this case since 1987, “and I certainly would have said, if experienced investigators, as we have in this case, had the evidence that was available in this case, I would expect them to solve it within a month. That’s without DNA and cell phones which are a big part of what’s going on here."

I really wonder what evidence investigators had one month after the murders that Ives believed was enough to solve the case, considering that he wasn't even including DNA or information from cell phones in that calculation?

Also interesting to note that his comments indicate that DNA from the scene at this early stage was thought to be a "big part" of the case. Nowadays most people with an interest in this case have come to believe only inconclusive DNA was found. It's fascinating to re-read what investigators have actually told us and compare to the second hand information and speculation that have taken hold over time.

Thanks for sharing that. Is Ives family?

 

[lonewanderer]

John Douglas, ex-FBI profiler and the "Mindhunter" agrees with you.
Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders

"Guys says to me that maybe he may know these victims," said Douglas. "Or it's a person ... someone who has interaction with children." He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history." "You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

Amateur opinion and speculation

There are other people who may use "guys" besides teachers, the more I think about it.

Coaches (maybe recreational league and not a teacher)

Former military ("guys" is used often to address everyone, and depending on MOS may actually be majority male groups being addressed)

Law enforcement (maybe prison guard in particular as police officers may not address groups as often)

And a "ringer" candidate...perhaps it is just a man that has multiple children with a mix of genders, using "guys" to address them all often.

Maybe its a combination of all of these things, or maybe none of these things at all. Pure speculation on my part.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thanks for sharing that. Is Ives family?

At the time of this article he was the Carroll County prosecutor.

He would have been in charge of taking this case to trial, or deciding if they had evidence to go. He retired, however.

 

[girlfriday]

At the time of this article he was the Carroll County prosecutor.

He would have been in charge of taking this case to trial, or deciding if they had evidence to go. He retired, however.

Carroll County prosecutor decides to step down

Thank you. I still wonder, if he is also family.

Edited by me: to remove unrelated media link that was pasted with the quote.
2nd Edit by me: to add the correct media file re: Ives stepping down.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thank you. I still wonder, if he is also family.

Edited by me: to remove unrelated media link that was pasted with the quote.

Apparently he is not related to the victims in this case as far as anyone has been made aware by MSM and you would think, given his role in the case and the nature of it, that relation between him and the victims would have come up.

 

[lonewanderer]

Carroll County prosecutor decides to step down

Thank you. I still wonder, if he is also family.

Edited by me: to remove unrelated media link that was pasted with the quote.
2nd Edit by me: to add the correct media file re: Ives stepping down.

Family of the girls, or family of the major suspect(s)?

 

[Yemelyan]

Carroll County prosecutor decides to step down

Thank you. I still wonder, if he is also family.

Edited by me: to remove unrelated media link that was pasted with the quote.
2nd Edit by me: to add the correct media file re: Ives stepping down.

He could have recused himself from the case without stepping down from the elected position in its entirety. I don't think his "personal and private reasons" as quoted in the article had anything to do with being a relative of anyone involved in the case. He has been quite active since retiring in commenting on the case in various forms of media, so it's not like by stepping down he took himself completely out of it or gained a low profile.

 

[Charlot123]

There are other people who may use "guys" besides teachers, the more I think about it.

Coaches (maybe recreational league and not a teacher)

Former military ("guys" is used often to address everyone, and depending on MOS may actually be majority male groups being addressed)

Law enforcement (maybe prison guard in particular as police officers may not address groups as often)

And a "ringer" candidate...perhaps it is just a man that has multiple children with a mix of genders, using "guys" to address them all often.

Maybe its a combination of all of these things, or maybe none of these things at all. Pure speculation on my part.

I would use "guys" talking to younger people, the same way I'd nowadays use politically correct "they, them" when talking to younger people, and "he/she" when talking to older ones. It might, really, be the question of the age - or the area. And it brings up some thoughts, because if I heard "they, them" instead of "he/she" in IN as opposed to West Coast, it would tell me a lot about the person. Use of pronouns is informative, and I wonder if there are any on the recording.

 

[Charlot123]

Please remember, ISP are not the only LE working this case.

True, but they are "representing" the case. How Bible Belt is relevant one might vividly see from "the Shack". Was it just an Evangelical analogy? Did DC hint at some shack nearby? In a different area of the country, I'd probably know the answer regardless of religious affiliation. In the Bible Belt, who knows?

 

[lonewanderer]

I would use "guys" talking to younger people, the same way I'd nowadays use politically correct "they, them" when talking to younger people, and "he/she" when talking to older ones. It might, really, be the question of the age - or the area. And it brings up some thoughts, because if I heard "they, them" instead of "he/she" in IN as opposed to West Coast, it would tell me a lot about the person. Use of pronouns is informative, and I wonder if there are any on the recording.

There is one possibility I have thought of, but I think it is very unlikely. That possibility being "guys" is not how he is addressing the girls, but "guys" is what he uses to describe a separate set of people to the girls. For instance, the "Guys (inaudible) down the hill" may be saying "Guys are waiting (for one of them) down the hill"

There is the very slight chance the BG man could be someone warning them that there is a group of guys downhill and to not go that way (which could possibly explain why a new sketch is out that appears to be drastically different) He could have said "Guys, don't go down the hill" or something like that, and they could have just thought he was a creep and ran down the hill to get away from him. I know that is very, very unlikely but there is lots and lots we don't know.

 

[Peppery]

Interesting that many posters consider Indiana part of the Bible Belt, but with a quick google search, I didn’t see any sites that include it at all. Maybe just the absolute southern tip, but not near Delphi.

 

[stattlich1]

The term "guys", IMO, most likely used by:

1. Coaches
2. Scout leaders
3. Teachers
4. Church youth group leaders
5. Persons employed in juvenile detention or residential treatment facilities

 

[155etta]

The term "guys", IMO, most likely used by:

1. Coaches
2. Scout leaders
3. Teachers
4. Church youth group leaders
5. Persons employed in juvenile detention or residential treatment facilities

School bus drivers.

 

[Ozoner]

John Douglas, ex-FBI profiler and the "Mindhunter" agrees with you.
Who Killed Abby and Libby? 'Mindhunter' John Douglas Offers Insight Into Delphi Murders

"Guys says to me that maybe he may know these victims," said Douglas. "Or it's a person ... someone who has interaction with children." He added that the person who killed the two likely has some kind of "criminal history." "You don't wake up one day and commit a double homicide like this," he said. "There has to be some kind of trail."

Amateur opinion and speculation

I think Douglas is dating himself with those comments. I don't think he realizes how pervasive the term guys is these days, especially among the roughly forty-and-under set.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think Douglas is dating himself with those comments. I don't think he realizes how pervasive the term guys is these days, especially among the roughly forty-and-under set.

I know a lot of people support your POV. I do think "guys" seems very teacher/coach-like to me. I work with someone who uses "guys" when he can't remember someone's name. Hard to say.

AMAteur opinion and speculation

 

[MistyWaters]

There is one possibility I have thought of, but I think it is very unlikely. That possibility being "guys" is not how he is addressing the girls, but "guys" is what he uses to describe a separate set of people to the girls. For instance, the "Guys (inaudible) down the hill" may be saying "Guys are waiting (for one of them) down the hill"

There is the very slight chance the BG man could be someone warning them that there is a group of guys downhill and to not go that way (which could possibly explain why a new sketch is out that appears to be drastically different) He could have said "Guys, don't go down the hill" or something like that, and they could have just thought he was a creep and ran down the hill to get away from him. I know that is very, very unlikely but there is lots and lots we don't know.

This quote below is from way back, March 8/2017. For mere words “down the hill” to constitute a “criminal activity” I’d think LE must be aware the audio recorded by Libby represents the killer’s criminal intent. JMO

“Indiana State Police released a picture of a suspect, which was taken by Liberty on her cell phone. She also captured a man's voice saying "down the hill" during what police call "criminal activity."...”
Nearly 5K raised for Delphi fund in pizza event

 

[MistyWaters]

There is one possibility I have thought of, but I think it is very unlikely. That possibility being "guys" is not how he is addressing the girls, but "guys" is what he uses to describe a separate set of people to the girls. For instance, the "Guys (inaudible) down the hill" may be saying "Guys are waiting (for one of them) down the hill"

There is the very slight chance the BG man could be someone warning them that there is a group of guys downhill and to not go that way (which could possibly explain why a new sketch is out that appears to be drastically different) He could have said "Guys, don't go down the hill" or something like that, and they could have just thought he was a creep and ran down the hill to get away from him. I know that is very, very unlikely but there is lots and lots we don't know.

This quote below is from way back, March 8/2017. For mere words “down the hill” to constitute a “criminal activity” I’d think LE know the audio of the killer speaking depicted his criminal intent. JMO

“Indiana State Police released a picture of a suspect, which was taken by Liberty on her cell phone. She also captured a man's voice saying "down the hill" during what police call "criminal activity."...”
Nearly 5K raised for Delphi fund in pizza event

 

[MistyWaters]

I think Douglas is dating himself with those comments. I don't think he realizes how pervasive the term guys is these days, especially among the roughly forty-and-under set.

I agree. Using the word “guys” as an informal reference to two or more people, regardless of gender, has been around for decades. The reason - because there’s no word in the English language that’s the plural of “you”.

The history -

The Surprising Origins of the Phrase 'You Guys'
“Then by the middle of the 20th century, women began using the word too. They increasingly used “you guys” when addressing others in the plural, regardless of gender. More and more speakers unconsciously voted for “guys,” till that was that: it was the people’s choice.”