Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Charlot123]

I pulled up the linked study on Wikipedia in regards to the statement you referenced about ADHD. The sample size for this study was extremely small, and the author even states that future longitudinal studies with larger sample sizes are warranted to confirm the findings. As a result, I don’t think an extremely significant correlation with ADHD can (or should) be considered a proven fact.

I also pulled up additional journal articles about alexithymia and found no other mention of ADHD. I did find that many other conditions may (or may not) be associated with the physical trait known as alexithymia — Alzheimer’s Disease, epilepsy, anorexia, bulimia, Huntington’s Disease, stroke, childhood trauma or neglect, PTSD, traumatic brain injuries, Parkinson’s Disease, depression, anxiety, autism, substance abuse, sexual disorders, chronic pain disorders, fibromyalgia, and migraines. That’s quite the list.

In my opinion, an investigation into individuals diagnosed with ADHD (or any other neurological or psychological disorder, for that matter) would be fruitless and only prove to further stigmatize individuals with such disorders. Although, I’m likely more sensitive about the issue than most because I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD myself.

Side note — I can recognize and describe my emotions and “bodily sensations” with ease (possibly too much ease, actually).

I understand what you mean. It applies to all conditions, though. Take bipolar disorder - we have the finest minds like Winston Churchill and Steve Jobs allegedly suffering from it, and then, they say that Ted Bundy had it. Unfair. It probably takes more to make a killer that some genoset. In the context of alexithymia I am more interested in what can be done to treat killers and violent offenders and prevent reoccurrence, but it is outside of the scope of the Delphi situation.

Personally, I think that whatever the Delphi perp has, he blends into a certain group, so he is not outlandishly asocial. This is why I think he might have a hobby that many share. On the one hand, he should be a hunter and a fisherman, on the other, he likes gaming. Maybe he gets his friends online?

But I think that if he has a “common” hobby, he still stands out. If he hunts deers, he might use a bow (or something to make an animal suffer). If games...well, I am not a gamer, but some strategy games with violence, you know?

 

[Charlot123]

Shelbey Thornburg.

Yes, thank you.

There is something in this guy... I don’t necessarily think he is connected to Delphi, but should he be, I would not be surprised. He looks like a gamer, and possibly, someone into 3D VR? Strange movements, too, as if he were from a game.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, thank you.

There is something in this guy... I don’t necessarily think he is connected to Delphi, but should he be, I would not be surprised. He looks like a gamer, and possibly, someone into 3D VR? Strange movements, too, as if he were from a game.

What about him makes you speculate he is a gamer, and specifically into 3D VR?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It is hard to discuss an unknown killer, although one can project...

1) I think Chris Watts's case can be discussed from this perspective, as much has been known about him. I think that he suffered from this condition, and during his life with SW, whatever he was unhappy with, he tried to "rationalize", and it did not work well (like the idea of having one more kid to strengthen the marriage, my!). And that some, essentially, fling, has resulted in such dramatic consequences has to do with the fact that somehow, some breakthrough had happened, and his emotions towards NK, he was able to feel and name. Anything around it got even more out of focus, of course, except for maybe anger and fear. But what he did with the kids - it was total alexithymia in action.

2) I wonder if one word we might frequently hear from people suffering form alexithymia is "boredom". If the Delphi killer is young, this word his relatives might have heard from him often.

bbm
How much booooredom would someone feel, if he in addition is suffering from Insomnia also? How would the person fill their time? I think: with as many interests as possible and with as many actions as possible perhaps, if the person doesn't want to get too much depressive. "Adventures" would be a help, and perhaps this February 13th in 2017 was counted as an adventure of some sort or one of many challenges. - Speculation only.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I understand what you mean. It applies to all conditions, though. Take bipolar disorder - we have the finest minds like Winston Churchill and Steve Jobs allegedly suffering from it, and then, they say that Ted Bundy had it. Unfair. It probably takes more to make a killer that some genoset. In the context of alexithymia I am more interested in what can be done to treat killers and violent offenders and prevent reoccurrence, but it is outside of the scope of the Delphi situation.

Personally, I think that whatever the Delphi perp has, he blends into a certain group, so he is not outlandishly asocial. This is why I think he might have a hobby that many share. On the one hand, he should be a hunter and a fisherman, on the other, he likes gaming. Maybe he gets his friends online?

But I think that if he has a “common” hobby, he still stands out. If he hunts deers, he might use a bow (or something to make an animal suffer). If games...well, I am not a gamer, but some strategy games with violence, you know?

I don’t necessarily think the killer has to “have” something to have committed this crime. It tends to make us all feel better to think that the person responsible has some label that we can point to and say “he’s not like me”; that he had a childhood of abuse and trauma “not like me” etc. and in the same breath talk about how he lives undetected among us like a normal person. I’m not saying the killer didn’t have some weird thing driving him to do this horrible crime but perusing mental health textbooks isn’t going to find him. My opinion...he is more “just like us” than “not like us”.
I truly don’t understand the reference to gaming and gamers. I certainly don’t fit the stereotype for gaming judging by gender and age but I have enjoyed gaming for most of my life and I don’t see any connection with anything here between gaming and the crime.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I don’t necessarily think the killer has to “have” something to have committed this crime. It tends to make us all feel better to think that the person responsible has some label that we can point to and say “he’s not like me”; that he had a childhood of abuse and trauma “not like me” etc. and in the same breath talk about how he lives undetected among us like a normal person. I’m not saying the killer didn’t have some weird thing driving him to do this horrible crime but perusing mental health textbooks isn’t going to find him. My opinion...he is more “just like us” than “not like us”.
I truly don’t understand the reference to gaming and gamers. I certainly don’t fit the stereotype for gaming judging by gender and age but I have enjoyed gaming for most of my life and I don’t see any connection with anything here between gaming and the crime.

What a great post. There have been volumes of studies on what makes a killer or SK tick, but I certainly agree we shouldn't overlook the home town heroes, the guy next door. "Hiding in plain sight". Some folks lead double lives, and are masters of subterfuge.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[Yemelyan]

What a great post. There have been volumes of studies on what makes a killer or SK tick, but I certainly agree we shouldn't overlook the home town heroes, the guy next door. "Hiding in plain sight". Some folks lead double lives, and are masters of subterfuge.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Some killers are great compartmentalizers. They are capable of putting certain fantasies and activities inside "boxes" that they keep separate from their daily lives.

 

[Charlot123]

Shelbey Thornburg.

Yes, thank you.

There is something in this guy... I don’t necessarily think he is connected to Delphi, but should he be, I would not be surprised. He looks like a gamer, and possibly, someone into 3D VR, you know? Strange movements, too, as if he were from a game.

I don’t necessarily think the killer has to “have” something to have committed this crime. It tends to make us all feel better to think that the person responsible has some label that we can point to and say “he’s not like me”; that he had a childhood of abuse and trauma “not like me” etc. and in the same breath talk about how he lives undetected among us like a normal person. I’m not saying the killer didn’t have some weird thing driving him to do this horrible crime but perusing mental health textbooks isn’t going to find him. My opinion...he is more “just like us” than “not like us”.
I truly don’t understand the reference to gaming and gamers. I certainly don’t fit the stereotype for gaming judging by gender and age but I have enjoyed gaming for most of my life and I don’t see any connection with anything here between gaming and the crime.

We all try to make our profiles. In contrast to how people might have understood my post, I think that there are good strategy games, that really help train one's brain.

I am just thinking that this murder was so well planned...but if he is not planning murders for a living, how did he learn? I think, strategy games. It is in my profile of him. This is all.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I’m not saying the killer didn’t have some weird thing driving him to do this horrible crime but perusing mental health textbooks isn’t going to find him. My opinion...he is more “just like us” than “not like us”.

Anyhow, it would be one little puzzle piece, knowing he had these or those experiences in life. It would make him at least different to other suspects perhaps.
You are probably right: He is more "just like us" than "not like us" on a first superficial look, otherwise he would have been arrested finally. Someone "just like us" is impossible to be a double murderer or sk even, one would believe.

 

[crhedBngr]

somehow he has eluded capture...as we have seen , someone can do some thing like this and then just blend back into the scenery unnoticed.

unless someone finds something, sees something, hears a confession or knows about lies that might have been told.

unless someone tells..he can just be utterly invisible.

do you live in Delphi or around there? do you know someone who is afraid? who lives in a bad situation, living with spousal abuse, elder abuse? living with fear of someone?

I feel like if there is a chance someone lives with him, they may be isolated and unable to come forward.

I hate to say this but , rural Indiana? you just don't know who all , or what all..

I hope everyones opinions, tips and ideas are being heard.

mOO

RBBM

I agree with the bolded statement above. BG may live with elderly relatives who may have heard he is one of the suspects in this case.

If said relatives are not mobile, BG may be their lifeline for food, doctor visits, etc. If so, I can see why they might not speak up.

JMVHO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

RBBM

I agree with the bolded statement above. BG may live with elderly relatives who may have heard he is one of the suspects in this case.

If said relatives are not mobile, BG may be their lifeline for food, doctor visits, etc. If so, I can see why they might not speak up.

JMVHO.

This is a very real possibility IMO, or any relative regardless of age and dependence factor.

Can you imagine discovering you have a vicious Perp in your family? (Although it is my opinion there would have been a long history of behavior that would make this believable).

Can you imagine the decisions they have to make considering the consequences? The punishment will extend far beyond the Perp to their entire family.

This may include being ostracized, loss of employment, threats, and so forth. It's a lot to deal with. *I am NOT saying family members shouldn't do the right thing and turn in the Perp.* I am pointing out what they will no doubt struggle with.

I'm no longer praying that the Perp does the right thing and turns themself in. I believe he could care less. I am praying that the combination of law enforcement science and the Perp's family finally bring justice for these two beautiful children.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[stattlich1]

Planning skills, check.
Organizational skills, check.
Time management skills, check.
Landscape/Area/Terrain research/familiarity, check.
Familiarity with murder, check.
Familiarity with LE investigative techniques, check.
Familiarity with cell phone tracking, check.
Knowledge of crime scene contamination, or ability to leave no trace, check.
Escape planning, check.

MOO, this killer isn't a novice. This likely is NOT his first rodeo. He has not eluded capture by accident, rather by design, intelligence, and skill.

 

[somequestions]

I'm not that knowledgeable about the Evansdale murders. Where the girls were found, was there an access road close by or was it in a area you could only hike into? TIA

The Seven Bridges Wildlife Area where Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collin's bodies were found is at the end of a dead end road. You can enter Seven Bridges and drive around some small roads within the wildlife area that take you in a circle around the property. Then the only way to leave is go back down the road you came in on. Seven Bridges is a wooded area but seems to be much smaller than the Delphi Monon High Bridge trail area. But like Delphi, once you leave the wooded area you are surrounded by cornfields. Also, I found it very hard to find on a map. So whoever it was, this person would probably have to be somewhat familiar with Seven Bridges in order to even find it. Because of the dead end road it seems like a place someone would have to have visited previously.

 

[Charlot123]

bbm
How much booooredom would someone feel, if he in addition is suffering from Insomnia also? How would the person fill their time? I think: with as many interests as possible and with as many actions as possible perhaps, if the person doesn't want to get too much depressive. "Adventures" would be a help, and perhaps this February 13th in 2017 was counted as an adventure of some sort or one of many challenges. - Speculation only.

Well, if you think, if someone has murderous impulses but does NOT want to kill, I'd advise to distract oneself, too. Trouble is, they always go to this obsessive daydreaming in their mind, and they should do just the opposite.

Planning skills, check.
Organizational skills, check.
Time management skills, check.
Landscape/Area/Terrain research/familiarity, check.
Familiarity with murder, check.
Familiarity with LE investigative techniques, check.
Familiarity with cell phone tracking, check.
Knowledge of crime scene contamination, or ability to leave no trace, check.
Escape planning, check.

MOO, this killer isn't a novice. This likely is NOT his first rodeo. He has not eluded capture by accident, rather by design, intelligence, and skill.

He is not novice in killing, maybe, even planned kidnapping/killing for others.

 

[Charlot123]

This is a very real possibility IMO, or any relative regardless of age and dependence factor.

Can you imagine discovering you have a vicious Perp in your family? (Although it is my opinion there would have been a long history of behavior that would make this believable).

Can you imagine the decisions they have to make considering the consequences? The punishment will extend far beyond the Perp to their entire family.

This may include being ostracized, loss of employment, threats, and so forth. It's a lot to deal with. *I am NOT saying family members shouldn't do the right thing and turn in the Perp.* I am pointing out what they will no doubt struggle with.

I'm no longer praying that the Perp does the right thing and turns themself in. I believe he could care less. I am praying that the combination of law enforcement science and the Perp's family finally bring justice for these two beautiful children.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I can imagine how scared they are. The society is pretty judgmental. But between not doing anything and waiting till the perp is arrested (and then having to weather the humongous anger of the community), and turning him in now - I’d rather do it now. Assume he can’t be saved in either case. But at least save their family name.

 

[minazoe]

Im still troubled by the girl's desire to go there to begin with. I know these are country girls, I get that ...but I just don't get it... and it bothers me...No dog to walk, bird watching? . no...and the kind of urgency around it..getting a ride, willing to stay only" so long"...and having to get picked up and dropped off .

just so odd how they seemed to be lingering at that end of the bridge as though they were waiting.

sorry it still bugs me ..and of course we really know nothing..mOO

 

[karenky]

Im still troubled by the girl's desire to go there to begin with. I know these are country girls, I get that ...but I just don't get it... and it bothers me...No dog to walk, bird watching? . no...and the kind of urgency around it..getting a ride, willing to stay only" so long"...and having to get picked up and dropped off .

just so odd how they seemed to be lingering at that end of the bridge as though they were waiting.

sorry it still bugs me ..and of course we really know nothing..mOO

I am troubled too but not with their desire to go there. The day was nice, it feels so good to get outside after a long winter and supposedly there were other teenagers they knew there. After spending more than a quarter of a century working with teenagers there has been one thing that I've never heard mentioned that I has always bugged me. Where is the flurry of texts back and forth between Abby, Libby and the other teenagers who were there? The texts asking who is there, how long are you staying, what are you wearing, we will be there soon, where can you meet us? Did these girls go there with no intention of meeting up with the others? Maybe there were texts back and forth and I've just never seen mention of it. Just watching teenage girls through the years, I know that is the way they operate.

 

[Yemelyan]

I am troubled too but not with their desire to go there. The day was nice, it feels so good to get outside after a long winter and supposedly there were other teenagers they knew there. After spending more than a quarter of a century working with teenagers there has been one thing that I've never heard mentioned that I has always bugged me. Where is the flurry of texts back and forth between Abby, Libby and the other teenagers who were there? The texts asking who is there, how long are you staying, what are you wearing, we will be there soon, where can you meet us? Did these girls go there with no intention of meeting up with the others? Maybe there were texts back and forth and I've just never seen mention of it. Just watching teenage girls through the years, I know that is the way they operate.

I think it's possible these exist just as you described but it's just never been detailed by LE. When they examined devices/social media accounts the day the girls went missing, they were looking for exactly this confirmation that the girls really did go to the bridge and not sneak off somewhere else after being dropped off. IMO

 

[mom2chloe]

The big difference to me is the Evansdale killer(s) had a plan to snatch and transport the victims. Delphi killer(s) I believe had no intention of taking the girls anywhere else but in that Delphi trail park. AJMO

I have often wondered if BG had a less than dependable transportation vehicle hence the on foot escape and lack of abduction of girls via a vehicle. MOO

 

[mom2chloe]

I am troubled too but not with their desire to go there. The day was nice, it feels so good to get outside after a long winter and supposedly there were other teenagers they knew there. After spending more than a quarter of a century working with teenagers there has been one thing that I've never heard mentioned that I has always bugged me. Where is the flurry of texts back and forth between Abby, Libby and the other teenagers who were there? The texts asking who is there, how long are you staying, what are you wearing, we will be there soon, where can you meet us? Did these girls go there with no intention of meeting up with the others? Maybe there were texts back and forth and I've just never seen mention of it. Just watching teenage girls through the years, I know that is the way they operate.

Exactly! Teenage girls don’t not put this
Info out there IMO. I have a teenager who knows more about someone she couldn’t care less about on social media because of snap chat. I don’t believe BG randomly stumbled upon these girls and I don’t believe that girls don’t social media even if only one had a phone. Also MOO