Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[mom2chloe]

Going along with the Glock theory, I asked Hubby if they make silencers for Glocks. He says they do, they’re extremely expensive and you have to obtain a special permit from the ATF. Also you have to pay a $250 tax stamp. He suggested a car oil filter with duct tape would serve just as well to silence at least the first few shots. Would there be a database listing persons in Indiana owning Glock silencers? TIA

 

[somequestions]

The first sketch ruined me too. Even though LE has repeatedly said to focus on the second sketch, I still picture him looking like the first sketch no matter what I do.

The second sketch was created after thousands and thousands of hours of investigative work per LE. The second sketch that you saw is the person responsible for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

After thinking about it and reading this thread, I do not have to write it a thousand times that the second sketch is a guess by LE(my opinion). Every day that passes without the case being solved makes me think even more strongly that it was a guess. Nobody could say that in April 2019 although I did look at the second sketch and think, "It really does not seem like the guy. It does not look like the man on the bridge." At the time it seemed like you had to trust LE because they seemed sure about it.

It is very hard to find someone if you do not know who you are looking for. Maybe they get a lucky tip? That is possible, but hard to think it will be based on either the first or second sketch. If you do not know who you are looking for, then the only thing left is genealogy DNA websites or a possible connection to another crime. Or luck.

 

[JimmyWells]

I wish they did a computer forensic search on all of the IP's in the area, who knows? Maybe they did. I would think shock or gore sites would stick out like a sore thumb. Additionally, the dude would have shut down his internet traffic completely following the crime, deleted all social media, etc. Being this is such a big case in a relatively rural setting, I'd look into the only IP's in the area NOT regularly looking up the details of this case in the weeks following.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I hear two voices, and I'm not bending from this stance until proven otherwise.

Law Enforcement has made the statement that the 2 recordings ARE the same person speaking. They have heard the audio in it's entirety and are privy to commands, statements and voices that we are not.
For me, I hear someone speaking to the girls in a way that is non confrontational when he says "Guys."
The tone changes and becomes an order when he directs them "Down the Hill".
I would agree that this is not something that seems to be in sequence.
Why they chose these 2 particular phrases is anyone's guess.
I hope that soon, we will know the reasons.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The second sketch was created after thousands and thousands of hours of investigative work per LE. The second sketch that you saw is the person responsible for the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

After thinking about it and reading this thread, I do not have to write it a thousand times that the second sketch is a guess by LE(my opinion). Every day that passes without the case being solved makes me think even more strongly that it was a guess. Nobody could say that in April 2019 although I did look at the second sketch and think, "It really does not seem like the guy. It does not look like the man on the bridge." At the time it seemed like you had to trust LE because they seemed sure about it.

It is very hard to find someone if you do not know who you are looking for. Maybe they get a lucky tip? That is possible, but hard to think it will be based on either the first or second sketch. If you do not know who you are looking for, then the only thing left is genealogy DNA websites or a possible connection to another crime. Or luck.

The second sketch, the one released at the April 2019 press conference, was actually made two or three days after the murders. Someone came to LE and said “they had seen someone doing something that they felt needed reporting”....or something like that. LE had this person sit down with a sketch artist at that time. Why they sat on it for two years is anybody’s guess. Why they pulled it back out and put it front and center is an even bigger mystery.
The new sketch doesn’t look like the guy on the bridge to me either...except if you go frame by frame, there are a couple of times where he looks a lot thinner and a lot younger. For the most part though, to me, he looks like the first sketch. The same sketch for two years LE insisted to us was the guy...just like they are insisting to us now the guy in the second sketch is the guy. I’m half expecting a new sketch sometime in the new year.

 

[IceIce9]

Law Enforcement has made the statement that the 2 recordings ARE the same person speaking. They have heard the audio in it's entirety and are privy to commands, statements and voices that we are not.
For me, I hear someone speaking to the girls in a way that is non confrontational when he says "Guys."
The tone changes and becomes an order when he directs them "Down the Hill".
I would agree that this is not something that seems to be in sequence.
Why they chose these 2 particular phrases is anyone's guess.
I hope that soon, we will know the reasons.

I have thought that the two phases released were either the two phases that were clearest, or the two phrases that were able to be cut/cleaned up or separated from other words or sounds that LE did not want released to the general public. Screams, cries, sounds of distress, etc. MOO

 

[JimmyWells]

Law Enforcement has made the statement that the 2 recordings ARE the same person speaking. They have heard the audio in it's entirety and are privy to commands, statements and voices that we are not.
For me, I hear someone speaking to the girls in a way that is non confrontational when he says "Guys."
The tone changes and becomes an order when he directs them "Down the Hill".
I would agree that this is not something that seems to be in sequence.
Why they chose these 2 particular phrases is anyone's guess.
I hope that soon, we will know the reasons.

After much speculation on my part, I'm confident in a single offender. With that being said, I hear two voices on that tape, and nobody is talking me out of it.

 

[dotr]

After much speculation on my part, I'm confident in a single offender. With that being said, I hear two voices on that tape, and nobody is talking me out of it.

Maybe two voices, one mouth? speculation.

One voice (submissive?)- pre-attack, "Guys"
Second voice- (a command, mean, confidant?) after display of weapon? "Down the hill"

 

[Ravenmoon]

The first sketch ruined me too. Even though LE has repeatedly said to focus on the second sketch, I still picture him looking like the first sketch no matter what I do.

So....
I want to give my OPINION on why the second sketch is considered secondary.
Hopefully, I am not overstepping or breaking any rules.
The first sketch, to me, appears to be someone that has been incarcerated- and this happened just a couple of months before the April 2019 News Conference.
Something tells me they may have expected this person to be their suspect, but ruled him out because of whatever evidence they have .
This really is speculative, and it is assuming a lot .
My gut tells me this is what happened with sketch one- and until this all comes to light in the public, I will believe it.

MOO JMO AMOO

 

[Yemelyan]

After much speculation on my part, I'm confident in a single offender. With that being said, I hear two voices on that tape, and nobody is talking me out of it.

A single offender but two voices in the recording....who does the other voice belong to, then? An innocent bystander?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

"Down the hill", that is odd to me. Why not get down the hill, or go down the hill. So for some reason it is like they selected what they could release, like the whole sentence couldn't be aired for some reason. Also I am from PA, and his accent is definitely PA or Ohio.

I don't hear Ohio in the accent at all. MOO. Additionally, most of us would use y'all or girls, not guys. Again, moo.

 

[JimmyWells]

Maybe two voices, one mouth? speculation.

One voice (submissive?)- pre-attack, "Guys"
Second voice- (a command, mean, confidant?) after display of weapon? "Down the hill"

Quite possibly the scenario, but I can't get past it. "Down the hill," or the cadence in which it was delivered would be fitting given the physical description of BG and someone with a raspy, bass-heavy voice with a bite, i.e. a middle-aged drinker being, "Evil." The, "Guys," has me all kinds of confused because it sounds like a twenty-something-year-old related it. A break in the tape in which the offender changed his cadence is possible, but to that extent seems a little bold to me.

 

[margarita25]

Now that I've taken a closer look it appears to be the outline of a weapon, and, true to form with shoulder holsters, it's rocking. The weight of the gun ordinarily pulls the holster down to your midriff and the still on the bridge shows this may be the case. Again, true to form, the barrel is pointed at his right elbow with the handle of the gun just superior and to the right of his pocketed hand. The ridge just above the slide just below the opening in the jacket looks like a Glock to me.

Here are just a few of my comments on the gun (there are many, some buried in the very early threads) and Glock. I’ve owned a Glock and it too looked to me like one, but there are also other guns it could be, imo. Jmo

Also, note holster image:

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

(again, these are only a few of my comments on this)

 

[JimmyWells]

Here are just a few of my comments on the gun (there are many) and Glock. I’ve owned a Glock and it too looked to me like one, but there are also other guns it could be, imo. Jmo

Also, note holster image:
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

I'll take a look. It looks like one of the mags with the lopsided grip like on the Glock 27 third generation.

 

[JimmyWells]

A single offender but two voices in the recording....who does the other voice belong to, then? An innocent bystander?

I haven't figured that out yet.

 

[JimmyWells]

I don't hear Ohio in the accent at all. MOO. Additionally, most of us would use y'all or girls, not guys. Again, moo.

"Guys," is big in urban LE, but its usually following, "Ok," as in "Ok guys blah blah blah." We also have to give props to LE for releasing the suspect's demeanor and its applicable here. If you're up on the tracks where people can see you and you don't want to spook anyone, "Guys," is appropriate. But if you get them isolated you can start being nasty and that's when I suspect "Down the Hill" was the related following god knows what.

 

[margarita25]

I'll take a look. It looks like one of the mags with the lopsided grip like on the Glock 27 third generation.

I’ve got a lot of Glock posts/gun posts, here is one I just found from May 14, 2019:

“Standard Issue Police Pistol; The Glock is the Most Popular Law Enforcement Handgun. Firearms for law enforcement officers must be powerful enough to stop criminals and accurate enough to hit their mark. ... The Glock 19 was introduced into the market in 1988 and the Glock 22 was introduced in 1990....”

Standard Issue Police Pistols & Most Popular Law Enforcement Handguns; Glock 19 & 22, Smith & Wesson M&P9, Berretta Model 92, Sig Sauer P226, Heckler, Koch HK45, & Colt M1911 - Shooting Range Industries

I’m thinking maybe something like this / (Added: See guns and Glocks at this link)
Smith & Wesson M&P .45 Caliber Police Pistol w/Night Sights

From the above link:

“Gun Sales Are Permitted To Public Safety Only:

Sworn Law Enforcement officers, including Federal, State, County, & City (Includes retired L.E. officers with "retired" credentials)
EMT's, Fire Fighters, Volunteer Fire Fighters, and Paramedics
Military personnel including Reservists and National Guard with I.D. (Includes retired Military with "retired" credentials)
Military veterans medically and honorably discharged with retired ID or DD-214
Corrections Officers, including Parole and Probation Officers
State Licensed Security Companies (Loomis, RAM, etc.) also includes State Licensed Armed Security Officers
Court Judges, District Attorneys and Deputy District Attorneys
LE Academy Cadets with enrollment documentation from the Academy”

—-

We purchased our gun at a gun show and are none of the above. This was back in the early 90s though. There’s also the possibility of getting one from a Pawn shop or any sporting goods store. What are the current purchase laws/restrictions at Indiana gun shows I wonder.

I think I’m going to go look at Indiana gun shows, where, when and what their rules for sale are.

Last edited: May 14, 2019

 

[Ravenmoon]

So....
I want to give my OPINION on why the second sketch is considered secondary.
Hopefully, I am not overstepping or breaking any rules.
The first sketch, to me, appears to be someone that has been incarcerated- and this happened just a couple of months before the April 2019 News Conference.
Something tells me they may have expected this person to be their suspect, but ruled him out because of whatever evidence they have .
This really is speculative, and it is assuming a lot .
My gut tells me this is what happened with sketch one- and until this all comes to light in the public, I will believe it.

MOO JMO AMOO

Hey all, just reread this...and it is too late for me to edit.

I just want to say that I should have stated "I want to give my OPINION on why the FIRST sketch is considered secondary."

I apologize, I made my point much more confusing that it should have been.

AMOO JMO MOO

 

[Skully]

Quite possibly the scenario, but I can't get past it. "Down the hill," or the cadence in which it was delivered would be fitting given the physical description of BG and someone with a raspy, bass-heavy voice with a bite, i.e. a middle-aged drinker being, "Evil." The, "Guys," has me all kinds of confused because it sounds like a twenty-something-year-old related it. A break in the tape in which the offender changed his cadence is possible, but to that extent seems a little bold to me.

So I grew up in Pittsburgh and "guys" was used all the time, up until I left in 2000. Didn't matter if we were addressing male or female. I still use it today. So I don't know if that adds up to a hill of beans or not, but I am putting it out there. I don't hear "Down the hill", I hear "down hill." The voice inflections sound the same to me, I can hear the same voice, but once you hear something it is hard to not hear it. Could his voice sound raspy because of the phone, or where it was, like in her pocket, because surely it was hidden, or some other reason? He just doesn't sound like the 2nd sketch. And the 2nd sketch was the original one, and they went back to it. So I don't know how good of an eye witness they had, eye witnesses tend to be "off", not always reliable. I look at BG and I have to go by what I see in that video. That is what I see, more like the first sketch. But either way, it is what it is, and you can't change what is out there.

 

[Skully]

No, not really.

The reason I asked the question in the way I did is because The Department of Defense publishes its guidelines for DNA collection from service members for criminal investigation purposes and it doesn't work at all like you stated. Here it is:

Striving For A Safer World Since 1945 › doddir › dodPDF
DoDI 5505.14

Military DNA records absolutely do not interface with CODIS for comparison to civilian crimes as a routine matter. If a current military member or military contractor is convicted of certain offenses defined under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, there is a specific procedure for collecting his or her DNA (that is totally separate from DNA collected for purposes of military human remains identification) and these records will be uploaded to CODIS for comparison to non-military crimes.

If a military member enlisted, served their time, and was discharged at some point in the past without committing one of these UCMJ offenses while active, there is no DNA information that the military could give to civilian LE jurisdictions investigating crimes, due to expungement regulations.

If LE in the Delphi case was investigating a current service member, and knew their exact identity, there might be some DNA information they could obtain with a probable cause warrant. But if they only suspected that their unknown subject had military ties, there is absolutely no legal way LE would be allowed to troll the entire military DNA database meant for human identification purposes looking for potential DNA matches.

All MOO based on published DoD guidelines.

So here is what I can tell you, there was a case, of a rape, in a town and a enlisted person was a POI. His DNA was in the database for the military. The person who was investigating the case, and had DNA from the victim, contacted the service branch and he was ruled out due to his DNA. I can't tell you more than that. I can say that someone ran the sample and looked at the comparison and it was not a match. As far as CODIS goes, I am not familiar with the military code for that. So thank you for sharing that. It is good to know.