Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[Yemelyan]

Yeppers.. and who was the coroner at that time in Delphi ??
And where is he now??
JMO

Pretty sure I know exactly what you're referring to on this. I'll just say the coroner in Carroll County at the time of this crime was a relatively inexperienced person for such a role.

However, I don't think the coroner in Delphi/Carroll County was the one who performed the autopsies on Abby and Libby.

Supposedly the girls were autopsied by a pathologist in Terre Haute, Indiana (Vigo County).

Source:

The Latest: Autopsies confirm bodies are those of 2 girls

 

[Yemelyan]

they know the exact time , the means, the complications, the methods, weapons, signatures, circumstances and exactly how the girls died. they know the motive and have a profile of the killer...

they may have a parabon from DNA that spurred the second sketch...right? Maybe the DNA doesn't match the height and other features of our BG on the video.

the reason I say parabon is because of the part that claims he could be older then he looks, or older than the sketch looks.

mOO

Parabon Snapshot DNA phenotyping can only predict traits that are highly heritable and relatively unaffected by environmental factors. The official list of traits that Parabon can predict are: genetic ancestry, eye color, hair color, skin color, freckling, and face shape. This is according to Parabon's website.

Genetic phenotyping doesn't reveal your height, age (at least, with enough accuracy to be used for this with current technology) or body mass.

If you ever see a Parabon "sketch" with approximate height or approximate age included, that's because authorities have developed this info from witnesses/the investigation and are including it for that reason.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just running off the 2019 presser
"Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"
It is about POWER to you.
may be in room, may not be, but its about power
Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"

Well, the POWER.
We have nothing to discuss here, what's new. Let me tell, what I'm thinking, what POWER means for him, IMO:

Power is, that he thoroughly shocks people with what he does.
Power is, that he severely hurts the feelings of people (family / friends) with his action.
Power is, that he makes it impossible for the entire LE/FBI to find him.
Power is, that 50,000 tips are received and they are of next to no use.
Power is, that the Internet is full of forums and groups, in which he and his actions are discussed.
Power is, that he himself can discuss also anytime and anywhere as a member and can lead people astray (or not) at will.
Power is, being an unknown member himself and earning more Likes than anyone else. Fulfilled goal, IF.
Power is, that in normal life most people think he's a good, successful guy and don't know about his abysmal dark side.
Power is, that nobody knows how to commit a perfect crime in such a short time.
Power is, that people develop a theory about the course of events and only he knows, which theory is correct.
Power is, when he lets himself be hired and paid for murders, if he just wants to make money occasionally.
Power is, when press conferences with much LE staff are held because of him.
Power is, that many innocent men are suspected instead of him.
Power is, that in the future young women / teenagers will be afraid to move freely in public.
Power is, that he can take revenge for the physical or psychological violence, that has been inflicted on him in the past.
Power is, that he gets himself a kind of "respect", even if nobody knows him yet.
Power is, that all media (printed or online) deal with his act for years. In case Abby/Libby sadly it will be for 4 years soon.

MOO
Ready with my morning thoughts (even before I had breakfast).

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think that, even if the killer was not in the room, somebody who knows the killer....or knows somebody that knows the killer....may have been in the room.

I would like to have a view onto the audience in full!!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Since we do not know what LE knows regarding evidence in the case I have to assume you are correct. However, since the second sketch looks nothing like the person in the Liberty German phone video, it is hard to say their opinion of the case is the correct one. What it looks like to me, in my opinion, is that LE did lots of investigating tips and came to the conclusion that without an accurate description of the bridge guy, they needed to try another eyewitness sighting. They chose a sketch from early in the investigation of a person that has yet to be identified as being out on the trail that day, who may or may not have had a vehicle parked nearby. I think LE was trying to play the odds that they would get lucky with this sketch.

And as of today, that 2nd sketch has not helped solve the case. I think what LE means by needing that one last piece of the puzzle is the name and address of the person or persons who murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German. This is what I think, my opinion. I think it is that simple.

I believe, they know name and address, but can't identify him 100% being the man on the bridge near Abby/Libby, despite video. His alibi still seems to be stab-proof.

 

[Ozoner]

Power is, when he lets himself be hired and paid for murders, if he just wants to make money occasionally.

This one I very much doubt. In that situation, the one with the money would have the power. BG would be somebody else's lackey.

Power is, that he can take revenge for the physical or psychological violence, that has been inflicted on him in the past.

This is possible but cannot be assumed. Many serial killers were never abused; most of them are just born psychos.

 

[Ozoner]

I believe, they know name and address, but can't identify him 100% being the man on the bridge near Abby/Libby, despite video. His alibi still seems to be stab-proof.

No only is there ne evidence for that claim, but whatever evidence there is suggests the opposite.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This one I very much doubt. In that situation, the one with the money would have the power. BG would be somebody else's lackey.
I don't agree.

This is possible but cannot be assumed. Many serial killers were never abused; most of them are just born psychos.

I'm assuming only, it's allowed. He might have only felt like he was abused in some way. "Abuse" comes in many versions.

In any way I respect your opinions!

 

[sunshineray]

I think that, even if the killer was not in the room, somebody who knows the killer....or knows somebody that knows the killer....may have been in the room.

I really do think he was that day. I've never seen a state policeman present comments like that, to me like he was in a physical state on the edge of mayhem . I also noticed others off to the side, up front facing the audience glaring at the back of the room. It seemed like it to me anyways. AJMO

 

[somequestions]

Dear @somequestions,

I genuinely admire your integrity and compassion in submitting your tip, especially both to the Indiana State Police and to the F.B.I.

Human beings do make mistakes, as you say, and we don't know if the second sketch is that of a person seen there but not necessarily the monster who did this. We just don't know.

You may not have received contact back from the authorities but that doesn't mean that your tip didn't lead somewhere. It could have been an important piece of the puzzle yet there are still some pieces (or one) missing.

Be very proud of your contribution to the tip line, the I.S.P. and the F.B.I.

You may very well find out - when this case is solved that your tip led to something crucial.

Best regards,
Zen

Here is a video from 2017 with the lead investigator speaking about the importance of calling in a tip if you feel strongly about it:

(he also mentions how crucial it is that the F.B.I. are working with them on this case)
(at video time 6:44 )

Thanks. Sending in a tip made me realize that thinking something is different than knowing something to be fact. So just because I think I saw the bridge guy does not mean that I actually did.

I have been doing the online amateur sleuth thing for a while and have looked at a lot of cases. I even thought I had information that might solve one of them. I contacted LE in that case too, but only sparingly with what I thought. This was years ago. Nothing ever came of it. I came to realize that there are lots of people who think they have information that will solve a case, and as another poster put on here about Israel Keyes, the tips in many cases are not based in fact. They are based on random sightings, ideas, theories, and opinions that are nothing more than speculation most of the time. So it is understandable that LE probably does not investigate every single tip they receive.

I think the saddest cases are the ones that so much time has passed that maybe even the parents will not be around to see justice if the case is ever solved. I am glad that I did not wait to submit my tip in this case. I submitted it the first time back at the end of March 2017. But the reason I submitted it so many times was not because I think I can make out the pixelation of Liberty German's phone video any better than anyone else. It was because of psychology.

When I thought I saw this person it was in the few months before the crime even happened. When Liberty German took the video of the man on the bridge it was before the crime even happened. So I thought, wouldn't that be ironic?

 

[Yemelyan]

I have been doing the online amateur sleuth thing for a while and have looked at a lot of cases. I even thought I had information that might solve one of them. I contacted LE in that case too, but only sparingly with what I thought. This was years ago. Nothing ever came of it. I came to realize that there are lots of people who think they have information that will solve a case, and as another poster put on here about Israel Keyes, the tips in many cases are not based in fact. They are based on random sightings, ideas, theories, and opinions that are nothing more than speculation most of the time. So it is understandable that LE probably does not investigate every single tip they receive.

Snipped and bolded by me.

This is an important point IMO. There is a book about Israel Keyes called American Predator that describes how, after he was caught and details came out about his crimes and how he would target random people, individuals from all over the country called the FBI explaining how they'd also been "stalked" by him.

The randomness of how he chose his victims and the notoriety of his crimes let to a psychological phenomenon where a large number of people across the country thought "that could have been me." And they started scouring their memories for any suspicious thing they'd ever seen and calling in tips.

The FBI spent years and is still trying to compile a complete itinerary (for lack of a better word) of Keyes' movements and from what they can tell the vast, vast majority of the people who claimed they saw Keyes, were stalked by Keyes, or encountered him in any way are just imagining or inflating these experiences that they are submitting tips about. I'm pretty sure this was what @cujenn81 was getting at with her recent post (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I would say, based on the 42,000 plus tips that have been received, that in the Delphi case a similar phenomenon is likely taking place. Everyone wishes they have some way to help find the person who did this. Combine that with the impassioned way LE told the public "we need you," and a large number of people both in the Delphi area and way beyond were submitting tips of dubious value.

Just like every man in the shadows wasn't Israel Keyes, so BG isn't every man in a blue coat. But now LE in the Delphi case have to wade through all of those looking for the one or few with useful information.

 

[JnRyan]

Speaking of taking a fresh look on the case I recently listened to a podcast, "Who Killed...." in which Kelsi German is interviewed. She stated that she had been interviewed many times by LE. She stated that her most recent interview this September involved all new investigators.
Who Killed Libby & Abby? W/ Kelsi German & Nic from True Crime Garage

This is the 18 September episode and Kelsi's comments are at approximately 7-8 minutes in the podcast.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Speaking of taking a fresh look on the case I recently listened to a podcast, "Who Killed...." in which Kelsi German is interviewed. She stated that she had been interviewed many times by LE. She stated that her most recent interview this September involved all new investigators.
Who Killed Libby & Abby? W/ Kelsi German & Nic from True Crime Garage

This is the 18 September episode and Kelsi's comments are at approximately 7-8 minutes in the podcast.

This is the most hopeful thing I’ve heard in a while. New investigators re-interviewing people from early in the investigation. These investigators know more than was known back then so I would expect a new perspective and different questions being asked. Kelsi mentions they’re talking to the girls’ friends and her friends again. They are all older now, less frightened and stressed than they would be initially. I’m hoping something helpful will come from this all.

 

[minazoe]

Im glad they are re-interviewing friends of the girls etc..seems to me like there is something about this murder scene that is very preplanned. or that one girl in particular was the main target ..something maybe personal in the method...or in how the girls were left there, maybe their faces covered etc.

maybe there are rumors making the rounds in Delphi...this does happen and they have to be investigated if they seem plausible.

There may very well be something that leads LE to believe this guy had prior contact or some kind of opportunity to observe the girls prior to their day at the
bridge. mOO

 

[girlfriday]

Im glad they are re-interviewing friends of the girls etc..

I AGREE! It is great to know this. I listened to the entire thing, hoping there was more. The podcast was otherwise a big huge nothing burger. I wish the main interviewer didn’t talk so much and ask bundled questions with personal conjecture, and would have just let KG answer / speak. It was also ironic that he tried to engage her in belittling another victim for being verbose. Not a podcast I’ll be back to, although I did enjoy the guest interviewer.

 

[JnRyan]

I AGREE! It is great to know this. I listened to the entire thing, hoping there was more. The podcast was otherwise a big huge nothing burger. I wish the main interviewer didn’t talk so much and ask bundled questions with personal conjecture, and would have just let KG answer / speak. It was also ironic that he tried to engage her in belittling another victim for being verbose. Not a podcast I’ll be back to, although I did enjoy the guest interviewer.

The guest interviewer is Nic from "True Crime Garage".

 

[joe jones]

am astonished this is still not solved

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Well, the POWER.
We have nothing to discuss here, what's new. Let me tell, what I'm thinking, what POWER means for him, IMO:

Power is, that he thoroughly shocks people with what he does.
Power is, that he severely hurts the feelings of people (family / friends) with his action.
Power is, that he makes it impossible for the entire LE/FBI to find him.
Power is, that 50,000 tips are received and they are of next to no use.
Power is, that the Internet is full of forums and groups, in which he and his actions are discussed.
Power is, that he himself can discuss also anytime and anywhere as a member and can lead people astray (or not) at will.
Power is, being an unknown member himself and earning more Likes than anyone else. Fulfilled goal, IF.
Power is, that in normal life most people think he's a good, successful guy and don't know about his abysmal dark side.
Power is, that nobody knows how to commit a perfect crime in such a short time.
Power is, that people develop a theory about the course of events and only he knows, which theory is correct.
Power is, when he lets himself be hired and paid for murders, if he just wants to make money occasionally.
Power is, when press conferences with much LE staff are held because of him.
Power is, that many innocent men are suspected instead of him.
Power is, that in the future young women / teenagers will be afraid to move freely in public.
Power is, that he can take revenge for the physical or psychological violence, that has been inflicted on him in the past.
Power is, that he gets himself a kind of "respect", even if nobody knows him yet.
Power is, that all media (printed or online) deal with his act for years. In case Abby/Libby sadly it will be for 4 years soon.

MOO
Ready with my morning thoughts (even before I had breakfast).

Omg what an excellent post! It does give us more to think about so thank you! Hope the BG has a power failure soon!!

 

[BNA]

This is the most hopeful thing I’ve heard in a while. New investigators re-interviewing people from early in the investigation. These investigators know more than was known back then so I would expect a new perspective and different questions being asked. Kelsi mentions they’re talking to the girls’ friends and her friends again. They are all older now, less frightened and stressed than they would be initially. I’m hoping something helpful will come from this all.

Maybe hopeful, but maybe not in the way we all are hoping.

I am wondering if they swabbed her a fourth time. (She previously mentioned being swabbed three times.)

 

[somequestions]

Snipped and bolded by me.

This is an important point IMO. There is a book about Israel Keyes called American Predator that describes how, after he was caught and details came out about his crimes and how he would target random people, individuals from all over the country called the FBI explaining how they'd also been "stalked" by him.

The randomness of how he chose his victims and the notoriety of his crimes let to a psychological phenomenon where a large number of people across the country thought "that could have been me." And they started scouring their memories for any suspicious thing they'd ever seen and calling in tips.

The FBI spent years and is still trying to compile a complete itinerary (for lack of a better word) of Keyes' movements and from what they can tell the vast, vast majority of the people who claimed they saw Keyes, were stalked by Keyes, or encountered him in any way are just imagining or inflating these experiences that they are submitting tips about. I'm pretty sure this was what @cujenn81 was getting at with her recent post (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I would say, based on the 42,000 plus tips that have been received, that in the Delphi case a similar phenomenon is likely taking place. Everyone wishes they have some way to help find the person who did this. Combine that with the impassioned way LE told the public "we need you," and a large number of people both in the Delphi area and way beyond were submitting tips of dubious value.

Just like every man in the shadows wasn't Israel Keyes, so BG isn't every man in a blue coat. But now LE in the Delphi case have to wade through all of those looking for the one or few with useful information.

I couldn't agree more. I think sometimes the hardest part about submitting a tip is knowing when the information you have is relevant. I really thought the information I submitted was relevant. After submitting the same tip 5 times over 2 years I guess LE did not think it was relevant. Hopefully the right tip is in the nearly 50,00o they have already received in this case.