Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #127

[sunshineray]

Maybe hopeful, but maybe not in the way we all are hoping.

I am wondering if they swabbed her a fourth time. (She previously mentioned being swabbed three times.)

Why would LE need to swab anyone more than once to get their DNA profile, on file?

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Why would LE need to swab anyone more than once to get their DNA profile, on file?

Good question!

 

[Yemelyan]

Why would LE need to swab anyone more than once to get their DNA profile, on file?

This was already discussed further back in the thread and the consensus was LE would need Kelsi, as the last person to see them and someone who shared clothing with them, to be swabbed so her DNA could be used as an elimination sample. Speculation was that DNA material, including elimination samples, from this crime might be sent to more than one lab, necessitating more than one swab (we know for a fact that it was sent to both the ISP lab and the FBI lab at Quantico and IF LE have only a partial or degraded sample, there are also many private labs, each with their own algorithms for determining DNA sequences, that may be working with LE on this case).

 

[Maplesyrup]

Why would LE need to swab anyone more than once to get their DNA profile, on file?

Maybe if she has a boyfriend she has been kissing, etc and his DNA profile could be in her mouth? Just a wild guess on my part. IMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Pretty sure I know exactly what you're referring to on this. I'll just say the coroner in Carroll County at the time of this crime was a relatively inexperienced person for such a role.

However, I don't think the coroner in Delphi/Carroll County was the one who performed the autopsies on Abby and Libby.

Supposedly the girls were autopsied by a pathologist in Terre Haute, Indiana (Vigo County).

Source:

The Latest: Autopsies confirm bodies are those of 2 girls

Correct-- they were taken to Terre Haute for autopsy

My post about who the coroner was in reference to the OP to which I responded-- about how usually there is a coroner or someone from the ME office AT the crime scene when bodies are found.
So-- I was wondering if the same person who was coroner was indeed AT the crime scene also when girls were found.
If not, was there anyone from the ME office there?? or was that one and same person ??

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just running off the 2019 presser
"Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"
It is about POWER to you.
may be in room, may not be, but its about power
Indiana State Police To Teen Girls' Killer: "This Is About Power To You"

My mom worked on the police force her entire career.
She dis S.W.A.T. and CSI among other things.
CSI was her favorite.
Many , many times , she relayed to me that sexual assaults of any kind are not sexual in nature.
They are about power.
They are about control.

JMO MOO

Edited to add the last bit.

 

[IceIce9]

I'm going to explain this horribly. In the US, each state may be slightly different but school committees are required by law to schedule a certain number of days of instruction. In my state it's 185. Schools are required to physically be open a certain number of days as well. In my state it's 180 days. So there are five days that can be taken off depending on any emergency, and usually that's weather related.

In order to not have the official school calendar change its ending date (or taking away holiday vacation days) every time a snow day has to be taken, the school committee may build in snow days into the calendar. How it's typically done is, there are a certain number of built in days allotted between, say, December and April 1st 1st and as you reach each milestone if in the calendar, if days off haven't been needed for emergency, the school closes on the built-in day. This ensures the students get the 185 days of instruction and the school year ends on time. If a snow day WAS needed, the school is open on the scheduled makeup day.

So it would have been known to anyone who has access to the official school calendar (every school provides a link on their official website) well in advance that Monday Feb. 13th was a potential makeup day. If you were reasonably paying attention and knew it was a mild winter without a lot of school closures announced, you could reasonably assume that a makeup day might be taken that day as scheduled, having not been needed earlier.

Most Indiana schools have a large sign in front of the school with upcoming days off listed. For example, spring break and the dates, fall break, and other no school dates.

I happened to be working in a school not far from Delphi that also had an unused snow day that day. The school I was working in had “FEBRUARY 13 NO SCHOOL” on the sign on the front lawn. Anyone driving by the school in the two weeks before would have seen the sign and known it was a day off school.

 

[Spartygirl]

Pretty sure I know exactly what you're referring to on this. I'll just say the coroner in Carroll County at the time of this crime was a relatively inexperienced person for such a role.

However, I don't think the coroner in Delphi/Carroll County was the one who performed the autopsies on Abby and Libby.

Supposedly the girls were autopsied by a pathologist in Terre Haute, Indiana (Vigo County).

Source:

The Latest: Autopsies confirm bodies are those of 2 girls

I tried to edit my last response but it's too late now

But wanted to add, per the BBM above...Yes, that is where I was going --you are spot on with that.
I was just curious if the coroner was also at the crime scene ?
I have so many questions, still after almost 4 years.
It is so frustrating.. I can only imagine how Libby and Abby's families feel.

 

[Yemelyan]

I tried to edit my last response but it's too late now

But wanted to add, per the BBM above...Yes, that is where I was going --you are spot on with that.
I was just curious if the coroner was also at the crime scene ?
I have so many questions, still after almost 4 years.
It is so frustrating.. I can only imagine how Libby and Abby's families feel.

Okay, thanks for clarifying...I couldn't tell if you were asking if/insinuating that the person who was the Carroll County coroner at that time happened to be present in the search group that originally found the victims? Or just trying to make the point that regardless of who did the autopsy, the Carroll County coroner likely would have made an appearance at the scene after they were found?

Usually there's an entire team of people who secure and document the scene. Based on LE and firefighters saying that it was immediately apparent foul play had occurred/ that the girls had not met a good end, I'd imagine the response to get experienced people in to document the scene would have been pretty swift. In fact, we were told that the FBI's rapid response team processed the scene.

@Spartygirl I'm sure you know this but for anyone in the thread who doesn't: the Carroll County coroner would not have performed the autopsies in any case because by Indiana law only pathologists (board certified or forensic) can perform them. In a rural county like Carroll, the coroner is an elected position and while the person elected often has some background (perhaps medical or even as part of funeral home staff), forensic pathologists they are not.

The forensic pathologist based in Terre Haute is fairly well known.

 

[Spartygirl]

I hope this is not against TOS, but my daughter heard it as well with her head phones. Once I was able to adjust the speed and volume properly, I heard it as well. Now- having said that, I know nothing about sound matrixing and how it works. So I cannot say that it is an absolute fact.I find it interesting that you heard the same words.

IMO AMOO JMO

I have listened over and over and over, different speeds and I cannot hear it. All I hear is warble, static noise.
I have tried with new headphones on also and still could not hear it.

Both of you are not the first ones I have read this from--others have heard it also so you aren't alone or going crazy LOL

I guess, I am glad I can't hear it because that would break my heart even more for these 2 young girls.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I have listened over and over and over, different speeds and I cannot hear it. All I hear is warble, static noise.
I have tried with new headphones on also and still could not hear it.

Both of you are not the first ones I have read this from--others have heard it also so you aren't alone or going crazy LOL

I guess, I am glad I can't hear it because that would break my heart even more for these 2 young girls.

You are right.
I almost prefer to believe it is matrixing.
It really was not something I wanted to hear.
I think my daughter's intentions were to see if the garbled sounds were decipherable in order to know if this was one continuous statement, or if these were 2 different pieces of audio spliced together.
I hope I have not given the impression of disrespect.

JMO AMOO MOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Most Indiana schools have a large sign in front of the school with upcoming days off listed. For example, spring break and the dates, fall break, and other no school dates.

I happened to be working in a school not far from Delphi that also had an unused snow day that day. The school I was working in had “FEBRUARY 13 NO SCHOOL” on the sign on the front lawn. Anyone driving by the school in the two weeks before would have seen the sign and known it was a day off school.

WHY is it publicly displayed?

 

[IceIce9]

WHY is it publicly displayed?

It always has been here. No one ever thought anything about it, I’m sure.

Most of the schools have electronic signs with scrolling letters. The smaller school districts often have the older signs that you have to change letters manually, with a pole.

Right now the school district where I live has winter break dates scrolling on their sign.

 

[303gmf]

WHY is it publicly displayed?

I see it in Colorado also, a school near my mothers listed upcoming days off and breaks last week
Most schools have a website or Facebook page with schedules listed as well

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It always has been here. No one ever thought anything about it, I’m sure.

Most of the schools have electronic signs with scrolling letters. The smaller school districts often have the older signs that you have to change letters manually, with a pole.

Right now the school district where I live has winter break dates scrolling on their sign.

Oh, I see. Just modern times. I have to learn, it seems.

 

[Yemelyan]

WHY is it publicly displayed?

Because parents/guardians are really busy and usually need multiple visual reminders of what's going on and when.

My personal opinion is that the day off of school, while appearing very significant, did not actually factor into his decision to commit a crime. My feeling is that he would have selected any victim that day that fit his requirements for availability and opportunity but it's just MOO.

 

[Peppery]

Re: the crime scene and discovery, I guess for any murder

Despite it looking like the girls were gone, would someone official verify that? Check a pulse, look for breath, check if there’s any sign of life?

I imagine if a victim is still alive, the priority would be to get them out and to hospital. Would they give any thought to preserving the scene when they’re racing against the clock to save a life?

Not implying that happened to the girls, the discussion just made me wonder. MOO

 

[minazoe]

saving a life takes precedent over preserving a crime scene, although measures may be taken to preserve evidence. mOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Re: the crime scene and discovery, I guess for any murder

Despite it looking like the girls were gone, would someone official verify that? Check a pulse, look for breath, check if there’s any sign of life?

I imagine if a victim is still alive, the priority would be to get them out and to hospital. Would they give any thought to preserving the scene when they’re racing against the clock to save a life?

Not implying that happened to the girls, the discussion just made me wonder. MOO

I think in this particular case, if the girls died sometime on the 13th there likely were postmortem changes visually evident that would have led even a non-medical professional to recognize that there was no need for life saving measures.

However, to your point about a general situation where a victim is discovered suffering in a near fatal state, it is often the case, at least in metropolitan districts, that homicide detectives/crime techs are called to the scene even though the victim may have left the scene still alive.

 

[minazoe]

because at the least there may be attempted murder charges. mOO