Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[Falling Down]

Not that I’m aware. I initially thought they should release what type of vehicle, color etc they were talking about but I think now they left it largely blank so they could filter out calls that were not about the vehicle they were interested in.

I agree with this.

Information about a vehicle in the Evansdale, IA, case from 2012 was released in 2013. LE there in Iowa stated something to the effect that they needed a minimum of 3 tips about a vehicle, and sure enough they got their third tip earlier in 2013.

I'm of the opinion BG parked at the CPS building because people driving by on C.R. 300, which is a road that gets light traffic, wouldn't notice details about a vehicle parked there. Versus a higher likelihood of people noticing details about a vehicle parked across the highway at the parking area, or for that matter parking at the tiny parking area where the girls were dropped off.

New information just released in Evansdale girls case (kcci.com)

JMO

 

[Alethea]

Interesting thought. Time and time again I hear that judges just don't sign search warrants without sufficient probable cause. (Like we keep hearing about the two searches of the Morphew home in the Suzanne Morphew missing person case.) And yet very early on LE is all over a search of a property on Bicycle Bridge Road with Carroll County Sheriff's Dept, ISP and FBI all taking part 3 days after the girls were found. Using the premise that there must be sufficient probably cause I wonder what led LE in this direction with such a show of force.
Search warrant served at Indiana home in teens' murders | Daily Mail Online

Re-reading these early news reports are very interesting. In this article, LE says about BG:

"We're not saying he's a suspect, we just want to talk to him to find out what he might have seen,' Sgt. Kim Riley, of Indiana State Police, told DailyMail.com on Thursday."

If LE had video or audio of this person harming or threatening the girls, would they say something like this? I guess they could lie to throw off the person. But you'd think they would immediately say: this is our suspect, he is armed and dangerous, if you see him, do not approach. I don't know. Maybe they don't have as much as we think they do.

 

[Yemelyan]

Re-reading these early news reports are very interesting. In this article, LE says about BG:

"We're not saying he's a suspect, we just want to talk to him to find out what he might have seen,' Sgt. Kim Riley, of Indiana State Police, told DailyMail.com on Thursday."

If LE had video or audio of this person harming or threatening the girls, would they say something like this? I guess they could lie to throw off the person. But you'd think they would immediately say: this is our suspect, he is armed and dangerous, if you see him, do not approach. I don't know. Maybe they don't have as much as we think they do.

I agree with you, they might not have as much other footage/audio as we think.

I also think it could be possible that LE had certain pieces of information from the phone earlier than others. For example, they may have had the video piece showing the man walking a day or two earlier than they were able to clean up the audio from the same file. The cleaned/recovered audio may have contained threats or other information that led to their conclusion that he was the one responsible and not just a possible witness. Just a thought and I definitely could be off base.

 

[Alethea]

I agree with you, they might not have as much other footage/audio as we think.

I also think it could be possible that LE had certain pieces of information from the phone earlier than others. For example, they may have had the video piece showing the man walking a day or two earlier than they were able to clean up the audio from the same file. The cleaned/recovered audio may have contained threats or other information that led to their conclusion that he was the one responsible and not just a possible witness. Just a thought and I definitely could be off base.

You could definitely be right. In my own mind I was assuming the video they released of this guy walking culminated with him physically grabbing or pushing the girls where there was no question that this guy was at least one of the perpetrators. Going back now to the original statements, I don't think my assumption is correct. It could be a zoomed-in video of a guy they thought was creepy from afar. The audio could have been recorded through "voice notes" and not found until later, like you suggest. I don't know how many people use "voice notes" where LE would check it first thing like you would a camera roll.

 

[JnRyan]

Re-reading these early news reports are very interesting. In this article, LE says about BG:

"We're not saying he's a suspect, we just want to talk to him to find out what he might have seen,' Sgt. Kim Riley, of Indiana State Police, told DailyMail.com on Thursday."

If LE had video or audio of this person harming or threatening the girls, would they say something like this? I guess they could lie to throw off the person. But you'd think they would immediately say: this is our suspect, he is armed and dangerous, if you see him, do not approach. I don't know. Maybe they don't have as much as we think they do.

The early reports are interesting. This article within 2 weeks is interesting. It wasn't just the FBI, ISP, Delphi PD and county sheriff department involved but a total of almost 2 dozen agencies. And they received 7800 tips within 2 weeks. There are many cases on here that don't receive 1/10th that many after 2 years. One of the most publicized cases currently ongoing, Suzanne Morphew, with over 50 threads here on WS since May, had 600 tips in the first 2 months per the Chaffee County SD.
Swelling Delphi investigation prompts new HQ

 

[BigTexas]

Jeez, with that many tips, I am really hopeful that they are going to nail this deranged dude.

 

[MistyWaters]

The early reports are interesting. This article within 2 weeks is interesting. It wasn't just the FBI, ISP, Delphi PD and county sheriff department involved but a total of almost 2 dozen agencies. And they received 7800 tips within 2 weeks. There are many cases on here that don't receive 1/10th that many after 2 years. One of the most publicized cases currently ongoing, Suzanne Morphew, with over 50 threads here on WS since May, had 600 tips in the first 2 months per the Chaffee County SD.
Swelling Delphi investigation prompts new HQ

Prior media reports of the growing and growing tip numbers was also highly unusual IMO, as if to suggest quantity indicated a measurement of progress, rather than quality.

The clock cannot be turned back in time but indeed I’ve often reflected back on the media attention early on including the growing reward and wondered whether all the publicity was detrimental to the investigation.

The court of pubic opinion can be utterly vicious and cruel. Might that prevent somebody from giving LE a tip if it involved a family member? Rather than fear of the killer, they fear they’ll be publicly judged for not saying anything immediately? I don’t know, I hope not.

 

[Yemelyan]

You could definitely be right. In my own mind I was assuming the video they released of this guy walking culminated with him physically grabbing or pushing the girls where there was no question that this guy was at least one of the perpetrators. Going back now to the original statements, I don't think my assumption is correct. It could be a zoomed-in video of a guy they thought was creepy from afar. The audio could have been recorded through "voice notes" and not found until later, like you suggest. I don't know how many people use "voice notes" where LE would check it first thing like you would a camera roll.

Yes, you're right, or I was thinking it's possible some of the audio portion - that which corresponded to "criminal activity about to occur" in LE's words - could have been recorded after the phone was muffled or placed within a pocket or something. So the "video" might not contain any more usable images other than the guy walking but did contain more audio that had to be extensively cleaned up by techs before specifics could be heard.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Re-reading these early news reports are very interesting. In this article, LE says about BG:

"We're not saying he's a suspect, we just want to talk to him to find out what he might have seen,' Sgt. Kim Riley, of Indiana State Police, told DailyMail.com on Thursday."

If LE had video or audio of this person harming or threatening the girls, would they say something like this? I guess they could lie to throw off the person. But you'd think they would immediately say: this is our suspect, he is armed and dangerous, if you see him, do not approach. I don't know. Maybe they don't have as much as we think they do.

My thought was always that LE initially said they wanted to talk to him as a witness just to see if the guy in the bridge would call them up. Surely he would want to help bring justice to the girls. Surely he saw something that would be helpful. After a few days and they heard nothing, LE announced him as the suspect. It’s been almost four years and they still haven’t heard from him apparently. I’m sure they have other evidence pointing to BG as the killer, but I think the fact he never contacted LE is a big one.
Just my thoughts.
Also, I like the discussion about things that happened early on in the case. I think the key to a lot is there somewhere. I am really liking everyone’s ideas.

 

[Falling Down]

Yes, you're right, or I was thinking it's possible some of the audio portion - that which corresponded to "criminal activity about to occur" in LE's words - could have been recorded after the phone was muffled or placed within a pocket or something. So the "video" might not contain any more usable images other than the guy walking but did contain more audio that had to be extensively cleaned up by techs before specifics could be heard.

I agree with this, and think the video clip, 'Guys", and "down the hill" could have occurred over a period of time, say 1 to maybe 3 minutes or thereabouts. The "down the hill" part sounds considerably amplified to me, I'd bet the microphone on the phone barely picked it up.

Judging by where he was in the video, he was mere steps away from Abby and Libby, maybe 25-30 or so steps.

JMO

 

[BNA]

I have also thought that the reporting has been pretty superficial on this case. There have been tons of interviews but it’s seldom anything new comes out. I know LE is keeping most of the information close, but the reporters never ask anything new and never push for a little bit more. Alexis McAdams, who was a local reporter at the time seemed to really care about the case. When she left for a bigger market no one has filled that void. There also is no independent investigating in this case by the news media.
As far as security cameras, I have wondered about that too. I seem to remember about a year out LE mentioning that there weren’t many security cameras around, but I hope that didn’t keep them from widening their search for the cameras. My feeling is that the killer is on a camera somewhere. Maybe it’s across from the CPS building, maybe 2 miles into downtown Delphi, maybe 50 miles up Hwy 25 at a gas station, maybe on the side of a rural house 30 miles outside Delphi along a rural road, maybe on a traffic cam near Indianapolis, but he’s on a camera somewhere because he had to get out of there in some direction. It’s just a matter of combing through it all. No small task but it can be done. The only way he is not on a security camera is if he was truly so local he was within walking distance of the trails. It’s possible but I don’t believe that.
Just my thoughts.

This is exactly right.

It seems like many posters here think that the reporting has been real great.

The reality is that it has not been real great.

Headline News Network (LOL), Nance Grace, Dr. Phil and so on is NOT indicative of real great press coverage. It is indicative of a side-show mentality

There does not appear to be any real media outlet in Indiana which is actively pursuing this investigation.

Additionally, the press is operating under a relatively new model in this country due to the downsizing or elimination of news staffs. All kinds of independent news organizations have sprung up all over the nation, and they tackle a wide variety of topics. But.....not this one.

It is very puzzling to me.

It is almost as if the press has been warned off this case. Or, that the press knows more about this case than the rest of us. Or, that a massive cover-up is underway. Or, that somebody is being protected by one or more powerful individuals.

So, what I would like to know is what it is that the press knows that we do not know.

 

[tarabull]

I'm not sure of much of anything however, just been wondering if BG killed himself once he realized (via initial reporting) the girls had recorded him even if he understood it was (only?) by way of a photograph...

:thinking:

ETA: This has likely been discussed previously...I did try the "search" feature fwiw

 

[Laura456]

I agree with this, and think the video clip, 'Guys", and "down the hill" could have occurred over a period of time, say 1 to maybe 3 minutes or thereabouts. The "down the hill" part sounds considerably amplified to me, I'd bet the microphone on the phone barely picked it up.

Judging by where he was in the video, he was mere steps away from Abby and Libby, maybe 25-30 or so steps.

JMO

Either Libby's or Abby's mom said in an interview that there are only a few seconds between "guys" and "down the hill", one of the girls said "huh?" Or something to that effect on between

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Just coming in to my email account and very interesting, IMO:
She didn’t know her kidnapper. But he was using Google Maps — and that cracked the case.
That got Draeger thinking. He conducts high-tech investigations for the Milwaukee Police Department, where he’d sought breaks in previous unsolved cases by using “cell tower dumps,” which compiled data from telecommunication companies to identify phones used near crime scenes. It was an expensive and arduous process and did not guarantee any usable results. But he might get results faster, and with more precision, if he went to a single source of highly precise location data: Google.

At a conference, Draeger had heard law enforcement officials discuss the possibility of asking Google for location data that could be used as a dragnet for a suspect’s phone.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It is very puzzling to me.

It is almost as if the press has been warned off this case. Or, that the press knows more about this case than the rest of us. Or, that a massive cover-up is underway. Or, that somebody is being protected by one or more powerful individuals.

So, what I would like to know is what it is that the press knows that we do not know.

bbm

^^ Yesss, THAT it seems to be and I would also like to learn of! Of course, we will never hear the truth, IF at all somebody will be charged one day. IMO

 

[sandy_80]

a detective working on the Amana holiday inn ( a cold case since 4 decades ) advised a while ago on SOTC podcast that le dont keep too much information away from the public.. cause they did that approach and the result was a cold case thats 40 years old without hope

 

[pearl]

I have always believed LE was heading in the right direction at the beginning. I remember participating in a thread where this idea was discussed. I do believe that something seriously derailed the early efforts. I think they came full circle back to the beginning because an alibi became suspect. Not necessarily the killer's alibi. I know the 2019 press conference has been picked apart, but it seems to me there was definitely a "someone" in their sights. I do not know of any reports of the girls' families losing confidence in the investigation so I assume, although they want this man arrested, the families continue to trust LE. I do not put much faith in either of the sketches resembling BG very much when he is finally arrested. I do think the first sketch is closer to the video picture of BG.

 

[Justice101]

Very interesting comments from posters over the last day or two. Thanks!

 

[minazoe]

sometimes I feel our laws cater to these killers...I'm telling you right now if I was LE I would be breaking some rules to get to this guy..I would be obsessed with proving my POI was the one.

you can't even do a cell tower dump without a warrant?...well maybe you couldn't use it in court ...but you could still do it. I'd be on this dirtbags roof with a listening device..I'd be hacking , I'd be luring and entrapping..I would get
creative and nail this slimey creeping reject to the wall.

mOO

 

[Yemelyan]

sometimes I feel our laws cater to these killers...I'm telling you right now if I was LE I would be breaking some rules to get to this guy..I would be obsessed with proving my POI was the one.

you can't even do a cell tower dump without a warrant?...well maybe you couldn't use it in court ...but you could still do it. I'd be on this dirtbags roof with a listening device..I'd be hacking , I'd be luring and entrapping..I would get
creative and nail this slimey creeping reject to the wall.

mOO

How can you nail him to the wall if you obtain all of your evidence illegally? I would think LE want not just to know who he is, but actually to convict him and hold him responsible for his actions.

There is a legal mechanism in our legal system called "the exclusionary rule," sometimes you may hear people call it "fruit of the poisonous tree." It's rooted in the bill of rights of our constitution. In a nutshell, it's illegal for LE to use evidence obtained illegally to convict a person and it's established law, it's not going away. LE have to find legal ways to prove someone's involvement in a crime. IMO