Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #128

[Falling Down]

I agree. I sometimes wonder if it was an inexplicable part of the offender's fantasy to "drive" them across the creek, part of the idea of control/power that he had. We are looking for pieces to fall into place, for things to be explained rationally, but when things are entwined with the offender's odd and unknown fantasies of the crime, it may be impossible to figure out the why, unless he is caught.

I agree about the creek angle, it's definitely one for the books in my mind. I don't recall any case I've sleuthed over the last several years which had that element to it. As if this guy wasn't fazed by the creek and other aspects of what he went through that day to kill two people.

JMO

 

[Charlot123]

This line of reasoning could definitely be true. I've thought perhaps BG gets a thrill from being so famous, maybe even follows the case closely and gets a thrill from what he did.

JMO

I am beginning to read the book mentioned in the article. "Why we love serial killers?" Here is the phrase that immediately caught my attention, simply because I never realized it:

"Similarly, Ressler believed that the conclusion of every murder increases the tension and desire of a serial killer to commit a more perfect murder in the future—one closer to his/her ideal fantasy. Rather than being satisfied when they murder, serial killers are instead agitated toward repeating their killings in an unending “serial” cycle."

Doesn't it look a little bit like a very specific (one of many) types of drinking, where the signal "I am drunk" doesn't get registered? There is a prevalence of compulsive eaters and hoarders in such families.

 

[Peppery]

My question is, how is he feeling now, in COVID isolation?

Probably the photo and the recording made him very scared. It is another strong, realistic, emotion, that might have broken the behaviors, for a while. What is happening now, though?

My opinion is that he's not in isolation and likely never really was. I think he lives somewhere not that far from Delphi, probably works a blue collar job that didn't stop for long if at all last year, clearly not concerned with breaking the rules or laws, and didn't spend much time off work or out of his local watering hole. Hasn't most of the US been back at work and school for months?

Re your second point, I think he was likely scared and surprised when the photo and recording were first released but that was short lived. The longer he goes without being caught, the more confident he gets and possibly he's been enjoying fooling the police and feeling like he's in control. And once the 4/19 sketch came out (which I don't think looks anything like him) he's even less concerned he'll be caught. I think he's getting off more on the investigation than he ever did by the murders. And I think Doug Carter knows this and its why he was so angry at the last PC. All my opinions.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Does anyone expect to hear anything new, that hasn’t been discussed before, on the HLN special about this case?
I’m sure I’ll probably watch it, but I can’t imagine it will be particularly enlightening.
Two hours on a case where no real information has ever been released.


Edit: typo

 

[Dotrat]

I think it stemmed from my post #588 I didn’t mention anyone using phone for zooming but that is where it ended up.
The searcher was reported to be a neighbor of property owner
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies | Fox 59

Just thought the reporting of the searcher who discovered the bodies to be a neighbor of RL is interesting. MOO
Copied from article link above
The gruesome discovery was made on Ron Logan’s 40-acre lot by a neighbor who volunteered to help with the search.

 

[Dotrat]

Does anyone expect to hear anything new, that hasn’t been discussed before, on the HLN special about this case?
I’m sure I’ll probably watch it, but I can’t imagine it will be particularly enlightening.
Two hours on a case where no real information has ever been released.


Edit: typo

I am trying not to have any expectations.

 

[somequestions]

Yeah, that creek crossing is such a perplexing factor. Intentional, unintentional, how deep, how muddy...? It would complicate things tremendously, either way, I would imagine. It seems like a defining aspect to this case, imo.

When I try to visualize the case and how it played out from the videos I have seen of the Monon High Bridge area, the creek crossing does not seem that unusual. I saw some good videos showing the Monon High Bridge area and the creek area where the girls were most likely found.

I think this person approached the girls and ordered them down the hill to his left(the girl's right). He marches them along the shoreline of Deer Creek until he can go no further because the shoreline disappears. At this point he orders them across the creek at what probably looked to be the shallowest point in the water. The murders are committed on this property owned by a private land owner. If I went to Monon High Bridge trail area without a map, this is how I would look for the actual crime scene area.

I think this man had them cross the creek because he wanted to make sure what he was about to do would be done without any sort of eyewitness. The creek provides that sort of extra border protection because who is going to cross a creek with very cold water in February? This might also be why it took a little longer to find the girls because people that were searching probably thought the same thing.

What crossing the creek shows me is the extra time and patience the killer has to make sure he is not seen and does not get caught.

 

[Peppery]

Does anyone expect to hear anything new, that hasn’t been discussed before, on the HLN special about this case?
I’m sure I’ll probably watch it, but I can’t imagine it will be particularly enlightening.
Two hours on a case where no real information has ever been released.


Edit: typo

I think if LE had anything new to release the would have a PC. I don't think they'd give out new info on a TV show that was probably recorded/edited at least a few weeks ago. imo

 

[Roxyann]

this crime is just sooooo sad .

 

[minazoe]

ok so if I am thinking its possible to connect Evansdale with Delphi based on symmetry..then where does it fall apart?

well, here is where it falls apart.

finding the right set of victims in exactly the ideal killing space for the killer seems highly unlikely.

now in order to believe the cases are connected I have to then believe the girls were identified, stalked and also lured to the site their deaths.

not only this but suspicions on the girls lingering at the end of the bridge were explained away as there is a passing rule on the bridge that most are aware of.

but we don't really know for sure why the girls seemed to be waiting there for someone
so we can't dismiss it.

mOO

 

[Spartygirl]

What, if someone (BG) had interest in RL's property before the date of murder? Someone, who has money and loves the conditions of property like RL's (woods, hills, creeks, grasslands, pastures, rural idyll)?

If RL made acquaintance with a nice, young potencial buyer before the date of murder, would he have brought it into connection with a double killer? If he had a clue, would he have told LE? His friendship with LE wasn't too close, afaik, and his concerns re the person (not to say: fear) might have been too important to him perhaps?

-.-.-
A Happy New Year to all fellow members! Stay safe also in 2021!

What if BG approached RL as to the value of his land to further expand the trails, bridge area. But he did not want to sell ??? Yet, RL does not know that BG is that same person ??
I think if RL thought he knew who BG is, he would tell.
I think it could be a case of wanting to expand the trails, etc and follow the money. IMO

 

[cujenn81]

there always seems to be some significance to bodies of water. does anyone know why detectives and profilers studying the location of bodies will possibly link them to other cases where victims are found near bodies of water.

it seems to have significance in some way..as in the some of the Atlantic City Boardwalk victims all found near water with their feet pointed east.

Im curious of what the proximity of water means to the killer or under what circumstances this becomes choice wether subconsciously or as ritual? or is it a matter of geography and nothing more.

2 sets of girls
2.5 to 3 hours drive away
abduction/kidnapping
rural area
park and trail area
daytime murders
remains left in the open
remains left near bodies of water
remains left in freedom bridge area
remains left in seven bridges area
victims close in age
similar near identical communities and topography
victims are white
victims are female
names of victims and dates of crime have symmetry and are similar
even both states begin with an "I"

and yes, 2 of the victims are very similar looking..very similar.

I will tell you a guy like this has a history, has lured and bullied and assaulted before, maybe
family members or in school. He is also competent, super competent and knows exactly what he is doing. He is also not afraid of heights or much of anything obviously a very self contented narcissistic psychopath.

I still think it's possible he was also filming and recording.

mOO

- abduction occurred on the 13th day of the month
- abduction occurred on the day before/after a weekend (Evansdale - Friday; Delphi - Monday)

 

[Spartygirl]

That’s the way I’ve always seen it too. I don’t think things went at all like the killer intended them to go. Whether it was a ringing phone or Abby and Libby not behaving or cooperating like he wanted, I don’t know, but I’ve always thought he left the crime scene angry and frustrated. You described well I think how the killer might have looked afterward...wet, mud caked, “a mess”. I think if you add to that the frustration and anger, it’s hard for me to think he would not have drawn a lot of attention if he was walking back along the trails toward Freedom Bridge. Yet no witness seems to say that that we know of. No mud, no angry guy. That’s one reason I don’t think he did walk back that way. I still think he was parked at the cemetery.
Now, four years later, the crime itself might not have been what he hoped it would be, but he’s probably relishing the fact that LE seems to have no clue who he is.

I agree with you ..he parked/ exited through the cemetery.
I have thought this since day one and when I visited there, it reinforced my feelings.
I know a lot of folks believe he exited walking back towards FB and IMO, I think witnesses have said same, IMO to make others believe that theory.
JMO but I do not think he left walking towards FB, all wet, angry, perhaps bloody, etc. to be seen by others.
Again, JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

That’s a good question, especially since LE has been reluctant to label people as POIs or to even say when people have been cleared.
Just guessing, but I would think that LE would never make a statement based on suspicions, but only it they were 100% sure the deceased was the killer.

Not even to their families?

 

[sunshineray]

How many people think more audio of the killer's voice could solve these murders?

Do you think the reason more audio hasn't been released is the quality is just not good enough being weighed against LE not wanting to release any part of the girl's voices?

 

[minazoe]

maybe the CNN,HLN thing will flush him out.there needs to be more buzz around this case.

there needs to be a concerted effort to find him at all costs.

people become complacent and aren't looking for that blue jacket, that mannerism, that voice...to me he looks like every plumber that ever came to my house.
But if he was my son or my brother or ex ..I would know immediately who I was looking at.

human beings are so individual and all the small differences come together to create something so unique..I would know him COLD...I would, just by the outline, the feet, the movement of his shoulders...

so let's all hope he's sweating bullets every time another show is devoted to propagating his image all over the media and on tv's in homes all across America.

sometimes people are in denial and don't have the courage or the where-with-all to come forward, if you are out there and afraid to come forward, remember that the truth will free you, the universe will find a way to protect you and make you whole, if you just do the right thing and go to the police. mOO

 

[mama_sleuth78]

Indiana man charged with killing wife whose head was found in cellar

Please bare with me as this is all speculation, however in August 2020 there was a man in Crawfordsville, IN that had killed his wife then decapitated her. He disposed of her body off a bridge near a wooded area and he kept her head in their cellar / basement.
Crawfordsville is under 50 miles from Delphi. Details were not given as to how or why the events with his wife took place.
When It all happened I searched facebook, found his profile and found that before his job at the time of killing his wife, he worked in medical supply sales and traveled. I can no longer find his fb page.
Looking at his mug shot I feel he has the same body type and face shape ( what can be seen ) as the unidentified Delphi suspect. If he had a traveling job at one time, during the Delphi and Iowa cases, then it could be possible that it is him and I'm speculating that he murdered his wife because she was questioning him or something.

 

[kkdj]

.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What if BG approached RL as to the value of his land to further expand the trails, bridge area. But he did not want to sell ??? Yet, RL does not know that BG is that same person ??
I think if RL thought he knew who BG is, he would tell.
I think it could be a case of wanting to expand the trails, etc and follow the money. IMO

I believe, nobody wants BG put to the knife, because there are too many doubts, whether the strong suspected person is indeed the killer. Nobody can imagine dark sides within a "nice" guy's soul. Maybe, RL has the same problem like many others. Even more so, if he possibly met him face to face. As long as BG isn't behind bars, RL would fear for his own life, if he would say something. Like any other witness, he probably is thinking: let someone other than me be the one, who gives the last puzzle piece to LE. - IMO and speculation
ETA: I believe, BG is nobody, who wanted to expand the trails or similar.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I agree about the creek angle, it's definitely one for the books in my mind. I don't recall any case I've sleuthed over the last several years which had that element to it. As if this guy wasn't fazed by the creek and other aspects of what he went through that day to kill two people.

JMO

If I remember well, the Evansdale girls and Abby/Libby were found dead on the bank of a creek, which flows in a curve at exactly this point. So I even will take this fact (IF right) as a specialty.